.525/.547 slide players : large or small shank leadpipe, and why?

[Slidennis]

I play mostly à Conn 52H bell with a dual bore SL2547 slide those days.

The slide comes with three leadpipes, two w/ a smal shank receiver, and one, w/ a large shank.

I have quite a hard time to decide wether I would better use a small shank or a large shank leadpipe, since I can pair them with the same mouthpiece (Doug Elliott system) : only variables would then be the leadpipe and the mouthpiece backbore...

I'm eager to know more from people playing dual bore slides and trying both configurations, to know their views about the advantages/drawbacks of both systems...

[hyperbolica]

To me, the large shank pipe and mouthpieces on that slide feel mostly like playing a straight 547 slide. A small shank setup gives a lighter sound, and saves some air. By switching pipes and mouthpieces you can change the character of the horn.

Personally i prefer the small shank setup. In fact, I prefer the straight 525 slide. To me, dual bore 525/547 isn't a big enough change from 547 to bother with.

[whitbey]

I had an Edwards slide made up by my Tech with nickle slides after I bought the close out brass slide from Edwards.
I wanted the leadpipe to work with a large shank. There was not enough room to fit a large shank leadpipe in that slide. My reasoning is the other tenor slides were large shank and too many people listen with there eyes and it seemed better to not let anyone know it was a small shank. I switch between 547/562 and 525/547 depending on what I am playing.
On the other hand, when I asked Doug Elliott for a new shank he asked me if I was looking to sound like a 547 or a 525. So I have a 525/547 slide that sounds like a 547.

[ChadA]

It depends on what mouthpiece you like, what feeling you like, and what sound you're going for, as people have said above. I prefer bigger mouthpieces and a 547 sound/feel, so I use a large shank piece.

[Vegasbound]

I played an Elkie 88h bell with a 25/47 slide that had a fixed large bore leadpipe that Carol Jarvis had selected from the conn factory and thought it worked well for what I wanted

[Slidennis]

Already very interesting replies...

Apart from sound characteristics, what about slotting, ease of the low or high register, resistance of the system impacting the flexibility of playing, etc, etc...???

I find the large bore shank more forgiving than the small bore shank, and that I have to be much more precise playing wise with the small shank system, but, when it works right...

[hyperbolica]

Apart from sound characteristics, what about slotting, ease of the low or high register, resistance of the system impacting the flexibility of playing, etc, etc...???

I find the smaller bore more nimble, more sports car like, less truck like. And of course, the smaller slide is slightly lighter. Articulations on the smaller slide are sharper.

Once you get used to the decreased effort of the smaller slide, I think it gives an improvement in your playing. If you have the dual bore set up, the difference isn't that big. Doubly so if you're using the large shank mouthpiece.

To some extent it depends on how you play currently, what kind of playing you're doing, how old you are, how much you practice, how much money you have for experimenting with gear, and what other kinds of playing you want to do in the future.

[Thrawn22]

I played an Elkie 88h bell with a 25/47 slide that had a fixed large bore leadpipe that Carol Jarvis had selected from the conn factory and thought it worked well for what I wanted

I have a similar pairing ('68 8H bell with 2547 slide).

I HATE the large shank pipe. It feels awful. The .525 pipes blow way better for me. I have a Bach 36 pipe on order i can't wait to try with my slide. If i need a beefier sound i have a .547 slide to use.

[dukesboneman]

I had an 8H with a 25/47 slide and I agree, it did not like the large shank leadpipe. I thought it was just me but the person I sold the horn to agreed.

[Vegasbound]

I and Ralph Sauer must be strange, I liked the fixed large bore pipe

[Slidennis]

I and Ralph Sauer must be strange, I liked the fixed large bore pipe

One large bore pipe is not the other, here it is the stock X pipe from Conn. But, I can agree, I also loved that pipe at some point, when I paired a SL2525 slide to a new gen 8HT bell...

[Slidennis]

Apart from sound characteristics, what about slotting, ease of the low or high register, resistance of the system impacting the flexibility of playing, etc, etc...???

I find the smaller bore more nimble, more sports car like, less truck like. And of course, the smaller slide is slightly lighter. Articulations on the smaller slide are sharper.

Once you get used to the decreased effort of the smaller slide, I think it gives an improvement in your playing. If you have the dual bore set up, the difference isn't that big. Doubly so if you're using the large shank mouthpiece.

To some extent it depends on how you play currently, what kind of playing you're doing, how old you are, how much you practice, how much money you have for experimenting with gear, and what other kinds of playing you want to do in the future.

I really second that. I'm 56', not willing to try any more gear any longer (fed up trying, counterproductive for me, will focus on improving my playing on what I have for now on...)

I play mostly in a concert band and in small bands with singers, playing soul, reggae, lady gaga and the likes...

Sound wise, I really dig the compactness of sound this slide paired to a small shank leadpipe can give, thru the whole range, still with a full sound... must be the more conical shape of the whole system, I think...

[ChadA]

My 90s-era 2547 slide came paired with a 60s-era 8H bell (exact date unknown since serial numbers are on the slide I don't have). I love the combo and would play it all the time in quintet if the literature we played wasn't so much easier with a trigger.

I play a stock X pipe, though the slide came with a shortened version of the same pipe. I prefer the stock X pipe to the shortened one, even though the shortened version blows more freely. The 2547 slide works great for me with an 88HTG bell or the Elkhart 8H bell. Obviously, based on responses above, mileage varies.

[Chatname]

I would like to prefer the small shank for the lighter sound but for technical reasons I prefer the large bore. I play better on it, mostly. But that’s just me.
And that is with a wider bell, I should add. When I switch to a narrower bell, the small shank feels much more like the obvious choice to me (2547 slide,8,5 inch or 8 inch bells).

[FEWeathers]

Ralph Sauer plays with a small shank mouthpiece, and always has after he moved to using this slide.

With the Conn slide, he used the "T" leadpipe. With the Shires slide, he uses the RS M leadpipe, which is the medium bore version of their Vintage Elkhart pipe. It's similar to the 2.5 Short pipe.

He clearly states that the Conn leadpipe for large shank mouthpieces was awful (for him, anyway). Ralph tells the tale here, starting around 43:59.

[Slidennis]

Ralph Sauer plays with a small shank mouthpiece, and always has after he moved to using this slide.

With the Conn slide, he used the "T" leadpipe. With the Shires slide, he uses the RS M leadpipe, which is the medium bore version of their Vintage Elkhart pipe. It's similar to the 2.5 Short pipe.

He clearly states that the Conn leadpipe for large shank mouthpieces was awful (for him, anyway). Ralph tells the tale here, starting around 43:59.

Thanks at lot for shearing this great interview ! At first I liked the "T" leadpipe most as well, but it adds a lot of resistance to the system, I have a hard time to cope with...

[Matt K]

For my 525/547, I either use a Conn 52H (small shank) with an XT104N/E/E4 or a Conn "X" leadpipe with an XT104N/Shires 6.5AL or an XTE/E8. The former in commercial settings, the latter in classical settings... usually. The large shank makes a big difference and as other noted, feels much closer to a large bore horn than a small bore horn but slightly more nimble for me which is why I like the setup I have another medium bore Yamaha (500/525) that I use so for me if I'm pulling out the 525/547 I want it to be closer to the large bore side of things than the small bore or else I'd just use the smaller axe.

[Slidennis]

Thanks, Matt, for this really valuable advice for me. I'm using a LT103/E/E4 or E8 at the moment, and feel quite the same as you mention. I'm still in balance between the large bore or the small bore settings, I quite dig the fuller sound in the middle register with the large shank setup than the other options.
Your prefered small shank leadpipe is the "T" or the "H", btw?

[Matt K]

Thanks, Matt, for this really valuable advice for me. I'm using a LT103/E/E4 or E8 at the moment, and feel quite the same as you mention. I'm still in balance between the large bore or the small bore settings, I quite dig the fuller sound in the middle register with the large shank setup than the other options.
Your prefered small shank leadpipe is the "T" or the "H", btw?

The reference to the Conn 52H was actually the leadpipe (which you can read my mind so knew exactly what I meant when I mentioned a model of a horn with a fixed pipe, right? ). I think I picked it up off a forum member a few years ago.

My slide is actually a bit of a franken slide. It started out as an YSL8820. I swapped out the tenon for a Shires tenon and had a YSL645 lower slide put on the upper due to the length. So it would be somewhat akin to a Shires TW2547LWYC although it's not as wide as Shires wide nor is it as narrow as their narrow slides. And its only half-lightweight because it has a lower oversleeve but not an upper. So yeah... frankenslide.

It was adapted accept Shires threaded leadpipes... so I added threads to the Conn 52 pipe. I later acquired a Conn X pipe. It was $40 new and I was thinking if nothing else I'd use it to gauge what direction I wanted to go and ended up liking it in comparison to a few MT shires I tried... so I ended up having a tech work his magic on the "X" pipe despite it being a 2 piece leadpipe intended for Conn threads.

I don't know if the 52 is comparable (or even identical, which it could be) to either the "T" or the "H" or some other Conn pipe but I tried several and the 52 has won - for me - over every other small 525 pipe I've tried on every horn I've put it in. But I've admittedly only put it in a few horns, although they were quite divergent: YSL646, the Shires I mentioned, and a Wessex dual-large-bore Alto.

I've been meaning to have a tech order another one for me for a while but the local shop has been really slow with 2 projects of mine and it's caused me to delay somethings I probably would have done now. That and I've been working like 80 hour weeks for a year.