Axial/Thayer on a Bach 36?

[RJMason]

Interested in getting this modification done. I’ve only ever seen one or two Bach 36s modded with a Thayer.

I use the F a lot for improv and recording low notes, prefer my horns with a trigger. Has anyone had experience with this setup, or similar .525 with Axial? Thanks for your insight!

[dukesboneman]

You may want to consider The Instrument Innovations Rotary and /or Thayer.
I have the rotary on my 42BO and love it.
I`ve seen a 36 with a I I rotary..

[BGuttman]

The need for a modified valve on a 36 is a lot less than a 42. They use the same rotor, so it's much more open on the 36.

[mrdeacon]

At that point you need to ask yourself why you're playing a Bach 36 and not a Bach 42? Could this possibly be a mouthpiece issue and not a valve issue?

As others have said check out the Rotax or Instrument Innovations valve if you want a improved rotor.

[Burgerbob]

You'd also need a wide slide with any kind of larger valve. I have a 36K and had to have a Shires crook installed in order to play it comfortably.

[paulyg]

Cheapest solution is to open up the valve ports. The stock valve ports on a 36/42 are machined straight through. This has the effect of a "squashed tube." Dana Hofer of Chicago will open the ports up if you mail him your valve cores.

[Rusty]

I had a custom Edwards .525 with a Thayer and detachable straight neckpipe. Wide slide. I played the horn for a number of years and it was a great horn, but I came to the realisation that a Thayer was just the wrong valve for it and a standard rotor or similar would’ve been a better decision. It probably felt best as a straight horn. I’d go for an Instrument Innovations valve now I think.

[chromebone]

John Swallow played a 36 with a Thayer and he sounded great on it. It’s not only doable on a 36, it works really well.

[harrisonreed]

You'd also need a wide slide with any kind of larger valve. I have a 36K and had to have a Shires crook installed in order to play it comfortably.

I remember someone critiquing yamaha for not putting a Thayer on their alto and thought the same thing lol.

[WilliamLang]

i had a .525 shires with a thayer that played really well. worked awesome on radio city and other commercial gigs.

[pedrombon]

I've played an axial valve with 525" slide and 8" bell and I love how that setup sounds.

[hyperbolica]

John Swallow played a 36 with a Thayer and he sounded great on it. It’s not only doable on a 36, it works really well.

Thanks for posting this. I studied with John, and never saw him with this instrument. He always had a normal 36b rotary when I knew him in the mid 80s.

[chromebone]

Thanks for posting this. I studied with John, and never saw him with this instrument. He always had a normal 36b rotary when I knew him in the mid 80s.

I studied with him in the 90's and the horn in the picture is what he was playing. I think it's the same 36 you saw him with, but he had it converted. The work was done by Chuck McAlexander.

I think O.E.Thayer may have made a smaller valve for medium bore horns back then.

[RJMason]

That picture also helped me get this idea! I studied with Tom Hutchinson who was a student of John Swallow.

I have an 8H with a Thayer. It sounds wonderful. The Thayer is my favorite valve I’ve ever played on (I’ve previously owned horns w/ Rotor, Rotax, Meinlschmidt, Hagmann, Voight).

However, I am trying to get down to one small straight tenor and one all around F tenor. While I have enjoyed having different instruments for recording work, different sounds and “paintbrushes”, I have found during this pandemic that switching back and forth on many tenors is bad for my playing technique and sound concept overall. Trying to focus things.

I don’t do traditional orchestral or jazz work anymore, so am not looking for typical equipment. I find myself using a bass trombone more than a large bore for the recording/soundtrack work I do. .525/F covers all the other tenor needs (and blends really well with Bari Sax all the way to lead trumpet). I will keep a small horn for some solo/lead lines, ballad type playing, and Bill Watrous sound concept I have previously ignored but have been digging into lately to find another approach to playing trombone.

As a complete instrument, the Bach 36 is my favorite. I can play everything on the current rotor but want something that has less resistance and requires less effort to dial in. I may send mine to Sweeney Brass and add an Instrument Innovations Axial. Will also ask about the II rotor. While I know it will not play as “open” as an Axial, it may provide me with the fluidity in the trigger register I desire.

Appreciate everyone’s insight!