Olds Super Los Angeles. Buy?

berntd · Post by **berntd** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:03 am

Hello,

I can get an Olds Super with #121000 ish.
Around 1954?
It says Los Angeles.

Are they worthwhile getting or rather find a more expensive Recording?

Did they come with round slides or fluted?
This one is round and the seller claims that is correct for this model and age.
I personally have no idea.

All input is greatly appreciated.

Best regards
Bernt

hyperbolica · Post by **hyperbolica** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:24 am

It depends on if you like that kind of thing. I have an LA Recording, and really like the sound. The Super is a smaller bore. Lots of people like them, but I prefer the Recording.

My Recording is also a 54 and has fluted slides. I thought the Super also had them, but could be wrong. Unless you are a collector or a historian, the main thing is that the slide works well, especially if you're really going to play it. I'd rather have a functional horn than one that is strictly original, especially when it comes to the slide. I know there are other people who feel differently, but they tend to be collectors.

dxhall · Post by **dxhall** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:44 am

I have ‘46 and ‘66 Olds Supers. Both have fluted slides. Your seller is not correct.

Elow · Post by **Elow** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:07 am

It’s really just up to what you want. Ones not better than the other. Kinda like the difference with a king 2b and a 3b. Are you planning on playing it in something or just a horn to have? There’s an olds guru on here that you could probably ask about the slides. Also just get the seller to send a pic of the slides, that should tell you what it is. I agree with hyperbolica, i’d rather have a good working slide than all original parts.

Vegasbound · Post by **Vegasbound** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:32 am

Is it a horn that fills a need ? Is it a good price?

You could always check with DJ on his thoughts, he is the go to guy on vintage horns

Jimkinkella · Post by **Jimkinkella** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:23 pm

I have a '59/'59 Los Angeles Super - fluted slides.

It's a definite step smaller than the recording, both in size and playing characteristics.
Tighter and brighter.
I've had a few Recordings as well, for combo or rock stuff I prefer the Super.
Oldies big band the Recording worked for me on 3rd.

berntd · Post by **berntd** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:58 pm

Yea, it is the typical "must get more gear" syndrome

I have a Yamaha YSL-352 and a King 2B. I love them both.
But I noticed that a lot of folks like the Olds and so I am curious.

Regards
Bernt

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:57 pm

Original Super S15 slides for this era were "duo-octagonal" (16-sided), not round.

Original slides were dual bore: 0.485" upper / 0.500" lower.

Olds small-shank mouthpiece receivers are slightly undersize, so standard small-shank mouthpieces will not drop in as far. The mouthpiece supplied with the Super was an Olds 3. (About the general size of a Bach 12C, but they play a bit differently.) You can probably get away with your favorite small mouthpiece.

These are fun trombones to play. Generally very robust, but apparently the one you are looking at has had the duo-octagonal slide tubes replaced. (After all, it's ~65 years old!)

Olds Recording R15 trombones also had duo-octagonal slides, 0.495"/0.510" bore. Fuller sound, very nice looking. As you have found, typically more expensive. Many have had their duo-octagonal slides replaced.

Good luck!

Thrawn22 · Post by **Thrawn22** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:53 pm

Posaunus wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:57 pm Original Super S15 slides for this era were "duo-octagonal" (16-sided), not round.

Original slides were dual bore: 0.485" upper / 0.500" lower.

Olds small-shank mouthpiece receivers are slightly undersize, so standard small-shank mouthpieces will not drop in as far. The mouthpiece supplied with the Super was an Olds 3. (About the general size of a Bach 12C, but they play a bit differently.) You can probably get away with your favorite small mouthpiece.

These are fun trombones to play. Generally very robust, but apparently the one you are looking at has had the duo-octagonal slide tubes replaced. (After all, it's ~65 years old!)

Olds Recording R15 trombones also had duo-octagonal slides, 0.495"/0.510" bore. Fuller sound, very nice looking. As you have found, typically more expensive. Many have had their duo-octagonal slides replaced.

Good luck!

Good to know. Thanks!

JohnL · Post by **JohnL** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:22 pm

With the inners replaced, it's compromised as a collectible. Its main value is as a player - so how does it play?

berntd · Post by **berntd** » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:07 pm

How does it play?
Well, it is mailorder from the USA so I do not know.

Vegasbound · Post by **Vegasbound** » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:45 am

berntd wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:07 pm How does it play?
Well, it is mailorder from the USA so I do not know.

If you want a vintage horn, sight unseen/played then I would talk to DJ he has everything from collectors to great playing utility horns as he calls them, but the thing is he has an almost mystical gift of putting the right horn into the hands of the seeker, now you may scoff or laugh at that but I am not the only one who has experienced this when buying from him

Also as others said the Old's have a unique mouthpiece reciever, so your current mouthpiece may or may not work, so two options are use an Old's mouthpiece, or get Doug Elliott to provide an Old's sized shank

berntd · Post by **berntd** » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:34 am

Who is DJ and where do I find him?

Vegasbound · Post by **Vegasbound** » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:43 am

berntd wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:34 am Who is DJ and where do I find him?

DJ Kennedy is a forum member [email protected]

Vegasbound · Post by **Vegasbound** » Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:53 am

berntd wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:34 am Who is DJ and where do I find him?

And you find him wherever 3 or 4 vintage horns are gathered and look into a mirror and say his name 3 times

djkennedy · Post by **djkennedy** » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:14 am

Hello Vegas
Tipped me off to your thread
My buddy here biggie
Got out two slide tuning olds this week
They blow very well
There are other olds w the “fluted” slides
The early inners have wider less sides
Then the next very narrow fatter and more sides
with excellent chrome then the last version
Olds STANDARD a deluxe mostly yellow brass
some different brace shapes very refined feel
The early super 7 and 7 1/2 bell
Hand engraved garland deeper red higher copper
alloy flare mother of pearl inlay slide lock
usually oval end case w velvet curtain and the
smallest “fluting” inners w fantastic plating
narrow slide brace serial range around 12,000
or under made right before WW2

djkennedy · Post by **djkennedy** » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:23 am

The post war supers
LA then Fullerton
The HOLY GRAIL
Early versions w mop slide lock hand engraved
Most common Fullerton
really like the Specials and Studios too
Mass Quantities of Ambassadors survivors
Because nickle inners durability
Rival other makers pro models

djkennedy · Post by **djkennedy** » Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:36 am

There are many supers so examine them
before purchasing if possible
buy from trombonist if possible

berntd · Post by **berntd** » Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:30 am

Hello and thanks,
Just for interest, have you got any for sale?

djkennedy · Post by **djkennedy** » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:58 am

berntd wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:30 am Hello and thanks,
Just for interest, have you got any for sale?

-///////://////
Yes there are several here available and I can source them fairly easily!!!!!!

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:48 am

As others have said, you won't go wrong buying from DJ Kennedy – especially vintage horns like Olds. Tell him what you want and how much you can pay; he'll find a trombone (or several) that suits you. If you get an Olds, be sure to get an Olds 3 mouthpiece to at least have it in hand.

The downside: You'll have to pay for shipping from Illinois (USA) to Australia.

djkennedy · Post by **djkennedy** » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:26 pm

Shipping to Oz will not be excessive
If the bone goes over the rainbow

In one of the slim fiberglass cases
Well stuffed no box
Estimate 80-100 usd

berntd · Post by **berntd** » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:57 pm

Thanks DJ Kennedy.

How ddo I contact ypu to discuss further?

Best regards
Bernt

PhilE · Post by **PhilE** » Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:04 pm

Hi Berndt

In case you haven't spotted it - there's an Olds Recording on ebay now from Victoria.

Its a bit overpriced IMHO.

If you got it at the right price it may save you some $ in shipping etc.

berntd · Post by **berntd** » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:35 pm

I have seen it, thank you but I am looking elsewhere at the moment.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:45 pm

Berntd,

See your PM (Private Message)

Vegasbound · Post by **Vegasbound** » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:48 am

berntd wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:57 pm Thanks DJ Kennedy.

How ddo I contact ypu to discuss further?

Best regards
Bernt

I did post his email. [email protected]

He s also on Facebook

berntd · Post by **berntd** » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:41 am

I saw that but that email is dead.
Thank you BTW.

Regards
Bernt

Vegasbound · Post by **Vegasbound** » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:41 am

berntd wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:41 am I saw that but that email is dead.
Thank you BTW.

Regards
Bernt

I will let DJ know, don't think he is aware

I always contact him via Facebook messenger

berntd · Post by **berntd** » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:56 am

Ok, there are 100s of DJ Kennedys on Facebook so I gave up on finding him that way.

Vegasbound · Post by **Vegasbound** » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:58 am

berntd wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:56 am Ok, there are 100s of DJ Kennedys on Facebook so I gave up on finding him that way.

How many on the trombonechat page?

berntd · Post by **berntd** » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:34 am

No idea how to check.

But luckily he reads here so I am sure he will be in touch.

Regards
Bernt

Elow · Post by **Elow** » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:05 am

He responds to emails, kinda. I sometimes have to resend some, but he gets to them. Also may take a couple hours

Vegasbound · Post by **Vegasbound** » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:07 am

berntd wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:34 am No idea how to check.

But luckily he reads here so I am sure he will be in touch.

Regards
Bernt

I have sent him the message, and he is Donald J Kennedy on FB

berntd · Post by **berntd** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:49 am

Thanks.
Vegasbound, I sent you a PM.

Vegasbound · Post by **Vegasbound** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:53 am

berntd wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:49 am Thanks.
Vegasbound, I sent you a PM.

I. Have replied

BrerCottonmouth · Post by **BrerCottonmouth** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:33 pm

Not that this info is of particular relevance, but the Olds factory moved from LA to Fullerton (CA) in 1953, so if the horn was made in '54, likely it was made in Fullerton. As I understand it, Olds had a lot of tone rings left over from the LA plant and continued to use them on the Fullerton horns. So early Fullerton horns bear the "LA" stamp on the kranz. But, as others have pointed out, it's about how this particular Super plays that's important.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:33 pm

BrerCottonmouth wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:33 pm Not that this info is of particular relevance, but the Olds factory moved from LA to Fullerton (CA) in 1953, so if the horn was made in '54, likely it was made in Fullerton. As I understand it, Olds had a lot of tone rings left over from the LA plant and continued to use them on the Fullerton horns. So early Fullerton horns bear the "LA" stamp on the kranz. But, as others have pointed out, it's about how this particular Super plays that's important.

For what it's worth, the Olds move from L.A. to Fullerton was actually completed early June 1954.

I'm sure there was some overlap in instrument fabrication with some instruments released with parts made at both factories. Shouldn't matter much though.

berntd · Post by **berntd** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:42 pm

As long as they did no produce them in the truck between the 2 buildings

djkennedy · Post by **djkennedy** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:42 pm

I dug up a nice recording one pre war super and a postwar LA