Leadpipe rarities

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SwissTbone
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Leadpipe rarities

Post by SwissTbone »

I am thinking about doing recreations of some rare leadpipes. I have some ideas, but some additional input is never bad.

What leadpipes would you like to see being in production again and/or being available in different materials?
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paulyg
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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by paulyg »

I had a brasslab copy of a Benge leadpipe that seemed pretty nice. Never got a chance to try it- my Brassark MV42 showed up and I never looked back. Seemed intriguing to me, though. Very long pipe, heavy, and a slow taper.

I'm curious about the Bach 45 leadpipe. Is it different than the stock 42 pipe? That might be a cool avenue to explore for a lot of players who like the vintage sound but broader feel.
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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by Trevorspaulding376 »

The Kanstul Williams 6 pipe
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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by mrdeacon »

Pretty much all the stuff Kanstul is no longer making. Minick pipes, original Elkhart 62h and 70h pipes, Burt Herick pipes.

If you're able to produce some well made Minick copies (not copies of the Kanstul copies) those would sell like hotcakes. I'd buy a whole set and I wouldn't be the only one!

I just picked up a Minick C pipe from a forum member and it outplays my Kanstul C pipe by a mile. What's weird is the pipes blow almost the same but there is a much greater response and resonance from the original Minick pipe.

Speaking of which... If anyone is looking to sell their original Minick bass trombone pipes hit me up! I'm always interested :pant:
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Matt K
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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by Matt K »

Bach 45 would be awesome.

I think the small bore market for this is somewhat underserved. There are tons of 547 pipes available but relatively few 485, 500, and 508 pipes and of course 491,492, & 495 pipes (understandably). Brassark has the 32H replica, Edwards, Rath, and Shires have a few available for some of these sizes. Might be interesting to see if there were any good playing Bach 6 pipes (or 9, I had a great Bach 9 but was too tempted to take the torch to it so I sold it!) for 485 and maybe a good Bach 12 and Conn 6H pipe for comparison.
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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by SwissTbone »

Matt K wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:04 pm Bach 45 would be awesome.

I think the small bore market for this is somewhat underserved. There are tons of 547 pipes available but relatively few 485, 500, and 508 pipes and of course 491,492, & 495 pipes (understandably). Brassark has the 32H replica, Edwards, Rath, and Shires have a few available for some of these sizes. Might be interesting to see if there were any good playing Bach 6 pipes (or 9, I had a great Bach 9 but was too tempted to take the torch to it so I sold it!) for 485 and maybe a good Bach 12 and Conn 6H pipe for comparison.
Yeah I also thought about the small bore market. Will have to look into this.
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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by Leanit »

Minick small bore.
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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by modelerdc »

I had a 45B once and the slide seemed identical to a standard 42 slide. I saw a list of the Bach factory parts used on each model horn and I seem to recall that the 42 and 45 used the same lead pipe. Of course even if my memory is correct Bach lead pipes of different vintages may vary...
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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by dukesboneman »

I have used a number of different leadpipes. My Bach 12G has a Kanstul W6 and I love it. My 36 has an Edwards #2
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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by WGWTR180 »

cozzagiorgi wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:36 pm I am thinking about doing recreations of some rare leadpipes. I have some ideas, but some additional input is never bad.

What leadpipes would you like to see being in production again and/or being available in different materials?
How would you go about making these pipes? There's a Ton of R&D that would need to go into properly duplicating lead pipes.
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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by WGWTR180 »

dukesboneman wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:13 am I have used a number of different leadpipes. My Bach 12G has a Kanstul W6 and I love it. My 36 has an Edwards #2
I'm not sure he's need to take the time to duplicate an Edwards #2 pipe when you can buy them from Edwards. :idk:
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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by elmsandr »

modelerdc wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:12 am I had a 45B once and the slide seemed identical to a standard 42 slide. I saw a list of the Bach factory parts used on each model horn and I seem to recall that the 42 and 45 used the same lead pipe. Of course even if my memory is correct Bach lead pipes of different vintages may vary...
According to all the shop cards I have seen, the leadpipes for the 42 and 45 are identical (#454 pipe)

I several of appropriate vintage here, but I have never tried to measure them to see if they are in fact the same (two 45s and a 42; one NY and two MtV).

I have opinions on these, but they are really just opinions and have no solid ground.

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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by SwissTbone »

WGWTR180 wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:42 am
cozzagiorgi wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:36 pm I am thinking about doing recreations of some rare leadpipes. I have some ideas, but some additional input is never bad.

What leadpipes would you like to see being in production again and/or being available in different materials?
How would you go about making these pipes? There's a Ton of R&D that would need to go into properly duplicating lead pipes.
I can't speak for the technical side of things as I am not an instrument technician. But I have access to a great german trombone builder who told me this would be an easy mission to him.
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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by WGWTR180 »

cozzagiorgi wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:14 am
WGWTR180 wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:42 am

How would you go about making these pipes? There's a Ton of R&D that would need to go into properly duplicating lead pipes.
I can't speak for the technical side of things as I am not an instrument technician. But I have access to a great german trombone builder who told me this would be an easy mission to him.
Well that's indeed interesting. My understanding is individual mandrels need to be made to duplicate existing lead pipes. There's also one more step that should be followed. When Larry Minick made lead pipes he asked what mouthpiece you played. Now remember there were far fewer mouthpiece brands when Larry was in his heyday but he wanted to know so he could make the receiver the proper size for insertion depth.
Many others have tried to duplicate lead pipes using various methods. I won't get into anyone specific as some have produced some good pipes. However many of the pipes are failures regarding the idea of being exact duplicates. Hopefully your great german trombone builder will have success. If so he could become a very busy person.
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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by mrdeacon »

WGWTR180 wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:54 am Well that's indeed interesting. My understanding is individual mandrels need to be made to duplicate existing lead pipes. There's also one more step that should be followed. When Larry Minick made lead pipes he asked what mouthpiece you played. Now remember there were far fewer mouthpiece brands when Larry was in his heyday but he wanted to know so he could make the receiver the proper size for insertion depth.
Many others have tried to duplicate lead pipes using various methods. I won't get into anyone specific as some have produced some good pipes. However many of the pipes are failures regarding the idea of being exact duplicates. Hopefully your great german trombone builder will have success. If so he could become a very busy person.
That's my understanding too. The insertion depth is determined by the mandrel and even then the pipes can be inconsistent if it's not done correctly.

As awesome as Chuck's Brasslab pipes are they are definitely not consistent to the same degree to the pipes I've played made on mandrels.
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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by SwissTbone »

WGWTR180 wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:54 am
Well that's indeed interesting. My understanding is individual mandrels need to be made to duplicate existing lead pipes. There's also one more step that should be followed. When Larry Minick made lead pipes he asked what mouthpiece you played. Now remember there were far fewer mouthpiece brands when Larry was in his heyday but he wanted to know so he could make the receiver the proper size for insertion depth.
Many others have tried to duplicate lead pipes using various methods. I won't get into anyone specific as some have produced some good pipes. However many of the pipes are failures regarding the idea of being exact duplicates. Hopefully your great german trombone builder will have success. If so he could become a very busy person.
Hm those are interesting points. I'll talk to my guy. See what he thinks about it.
If we could build leadpipes adapted to the major mouthpiece brands (whatever those are...) that could be interesting.

He basically needs to build a tool (a mandrel I think) for each leadpipe model. But once that's done he can be very consistent according to him...
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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by WGWTR180 »

mrdeacon wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:13 am
WGWTR180 wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:54 am Well that's indeed interesting. My understanding is individual mandrels need to be made to duplicate existing lead pipes. There's also one more step that should be followed. When Larry Minick made lead pipes he asked what mouthpiece you played. Now remember there were far fewer mouthpiece brands when Larry was in his heyday but he wanted to know so he could make the receiver the proper size for insertion depth.
Many others have tried to duplicate lead pipes using various methods. I won't get into anyone specific as some have produced some good pipes. However many of the pipes are failures regarding the idea of being exact duplicates. Hopefully your great german trombone builder will have success. If so he could become a very busy person.
That's my understanding too. The insertion depth is determined by the mandrel and even then the pipes can be inconsistent if it's not done correctly.

As awesome as Chuck's Brasslab pipes are they are definitely not consistent to the same degree to the pipes I've played made on mandrels.
I have some good Chuck pipes and a few not so good. When you went to his old shop he had scores of pipes there that you could try. Ever know how he made them??
Last edited by WGWTR180 on Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by WGWTR180 »

cozzagiorgi wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:50 am
WGWTR180 wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:54 am
Well that's indeed interesting. My understanding is individual mandrels need to be made to duplicate existing lead pipes. There's also one more step that should be followed. When Larry Minick made lead pipes he asked what mouthpiece you played. Now remember there were far fewer mouthpiece brands when Larry was in his heyday but he wanted to know so he could make the receiver the proper size for insertion depth.
Many others have tried to duplicate lead pipes using various methods. I won't get into anyone specific as some have produced some good pipes. However many of the pipes are failures regarding the idea of being exact duplicates. Hopefully your great german trombone builder will have success. If so he could become a very busy person.
Hm those are interesting points. I'll talk to my guy. See what he thinks about it.
If we could build leadpipes adapted to the major mouthpiece brands (whatever those are...) that could be interesting.

He basically needs to build a tool (a mandrel I think) for each leadpipe model. But once that's done he can be very consistent according to him...
YES if he's building something like that it might work.
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Re: Leadpipe rarities

Post by Tbarh »

Not sure if it is done, but a Conn 70H "Fuchs" could be interesting.. I am not sure that they differ from regular 70H pipes though... Several Williams pipes to copy also..
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