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Sauer screw bell

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:22 pm
by Chatname
I haven’t seen the Sauer screw bell IRL, but am interested!
Why f-attachment? Considering he was known for playing an 8H most of his career. Is it necessary for weight balance, or could one use a counterweight instead if one wants to have a straight trombone?
Anyone with experience who would like to share how they like this model?

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:20 pm
by CalgaryTbone
Ralph played a detachable 8H/88H setup for most of his career, playing the attachment side when he needed it. The Shires can also be converted to a straight set-up. Also, straight .547's are not getting the same use nowadays since F attachment horns are almost universally played in that bore size. I'm sure that Shires would have wanted there to be a valve offered with the horn for greater appeal to potential buyers.

When we had Ralph here as a guest at the local University, he played the horn with a valve the whole time he was here, including for his short recital before his Masterclass. He sounded great, by the way!

Jim Scott

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:38 pm
by Burgerbob
He's playing mostly solo repertoire as he tours and does masterclasses. No point in him using a straight horn for that.

His horn plays really, really well by the way.

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:12 pm
by mbarbier
Same here- I've only seen him with a valve when I've heard him play.

A student of mine had one- really really nice horn. I really enjoyed playing it. He has the dual bore version. The case was pretty nicely built but I much prefer the Bona. That one felt very awkward to carry.

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:53 am
by Chatname
That’s really interesting; thank you for your insights!

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:58 am
by CornyBone
mbarbier wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:12 pm
A student of mine had one- really really nice horn. I really enjoyed playing it. He has the dual bore version. The case was pretty nicely built but I much prefer the Bona. That one felt very awkward to carry.
I agree, I play said horn and it's an absolute joy to play. The case is a total pain though. The Bonna cases are much better ;)

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:25 pm
by Dennis
I have a few questions about the Sauer.

I currently play a 13xxx Corporation 36B in brass band. I'm thinking seriously about adding a Shires Sauer to the stable.
  • Do you use a large shank or small shank mouthpiece with it? What is the difference? How sensitive is it to mouthpiece choice?
  • One of the things I have against the model 42 is that it is too much like a bass for my tastes. The only one I've played that is fun to play is the Anniversary model with gold brass bell. With the .525 dual bore I assume this is clearly a tenor rather than a tenor/bass. Is this correct?
  • Have you tried it as a straight horn (i.e., gooseneck rather than valve)? How is it as a straight horn? Is there room in the case for a gooseneck?
  • In what ways is the case a total pain?
Thanks in advance!

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:14 pm
by Burgerbob
I don't own one, so take this with a grain of salt.

1. I used large, a Greg Black New York. Worked quite well for me.

2. Well, you're comparing perhaps the most "bass" .547 to all the others. Literally any other large tenor ever made is a little less of a "bass" than the 42 (and the other horns modeled after it). There is a whole spectrum of large tenors that are quite tenory, including the Sauer (which is a Shires 88H, basically).

3. Dunno.

4. It's a box. Not a large one, but it can feel a bit unwieldy. The MB screwbell cases are definitely a little more fun to carry around.

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:41 pm
by harrisonreed
Dennis wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:25 pm
I have a few questions about the Sauer.

I currently play a 13xxx Corporation 36B in brass band. I'm thinking seriously about adding a Shires Sauer to the stable.

Surely there is a way to try this trombone before you buy it, thus answering these questions the only way you can actually answer them.

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:09 am
by hyperbolica
I played one at a conference, and I loved it. I'm an 88h/525 player, and not otherwise a big Shires fan. The screw bell gave some obvious differences, bit it wasn't a negative for playability.

The duo bore valve was my favorite. Light and snappy. Don't let the size of the valve fool you. It's a great playing valve. The horn was a bit front heavy without the valve, but played large the way you expect a Shires to, even with the dual bore slide.

Overall a great horn. You might appreciate it more if you aren't a daily 88h player.

For some people cases are status symbols. To me, it's just something you use when you're not playing. To me any screwball case is a pain because you have to unscrew the bell every time. It only makes sense for travel, or fitting in a small locker.

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:48 am
by Dennis
harrisonreed wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:41 pm
Dennis wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:25 pm
I have a few questions about the Sauer.

I currently play a 13xxx Corporation 36B in brass band. I'm thinking seriously about adding a Shires Sauer to the stable.

Surely there is a way to try this trombone before you buy it, thus answering these questions the only way you can actually answer them.
Sure. Travel to Boston. That is not in the cards right now. The Shires dealers in my area don't have one and don't seem interested in having one.

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:31 pm
by harrisonreed
Dennis wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:48 am
harrisonreed wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:41 pm


Surely there is a way to try this trombone before you buy it, thus answering these questions the only way you can actually answer them.
Sure. Travel to Boston. That is not in the cards right now. The Shires dealers in my area don't have one and don't seem interested in having one.
I meant, educators you could take a lesson from, friends, or brass festivals.

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:43 pm
by Jimkinkella
Late to the party,
FYI my understanding is that Ralph had a few 88hs in addition to his 8hs, both Early Elkhart and more modern.
I have experience with a convertible Eastlake he had, and it is much, much better with the valve than straight. A pretty great horn, as well.
I wouldn’t mind checking out the Shires version, though.

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:04 pm
by FEWeathers
FWIW, Ralph uses a small shank mouthpiece on his signature Shires horn, as he did on the 88HTO with the SL2547 slide. A picture is worth a 1,000 words...

Image

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:01 pm
by heinzgries
Which mouthpiece is on the photo?

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:02 pm
by Burgerbob
Skeletonized Schilke 51.

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:38 pm
by FEWeathers
oops.

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:39 pm
by FEWeathers
FEWeathers wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:38 pm
"Ralph has a custom Schilke mouthpiece, essentially a 51 rim on a 50 cup in a special lightweight blank. It's small shank..."

^^Gabe Langfur on page 16 of the old Shires Q&A thread.

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:23 pm
by disco
They make the RS leadpipe .525 in a large bore. I play it in my SL2547 slide.

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:19 pm
by ChadA
disco wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:23 pm
They make the RS leadpipe .525 in a large bore. I play it in my SL2547 slide.
Does that pipe fit well in the Conn slide? I tried a different Shires 525 pipe in my Conn slide and it wouldn’t go all the way in.

Re: Sauer screw bell

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:21 am
by disco
Yes, but I have the bi thread adapter from instrument innovations