"Early" Conn trombones

Post Reply
User avatar
BflatBass
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:44 pm
Location: Kelso WA

"Early" Conn trombones

Post by BflatBass »

After spotting a used 1921 model baritone on Facebook the other day (a friend is looking for a used horn), I started wondering about some C.G. Conn history.
So I went to Wikipedia looking for some history on C.G. Conn and after reading most of the article I thought I'd get on here and ask about trombones made by Conn prior to their bankruptcy sale in 1969.

Are the Conn trombones made in the early 20th century highly sought after and if they are what for? Craftsmanship or just vintage charm or is it because certain models that aren't made anymore have a unique playing characteristic that certain individuals just like more than others? And I'm talking about horns made by C.G. Conn Ltd after they incorporated in 1915. Anyone own a trombone of that vintage? How's the overall quality?
Does anyone know if there were any changes in the manufacturing between the bankruptcy and the incorporation that affected overall quality?

I know there are some ppl on here with quite a breadth of knowledge about trombone lineage and I'm just trying to tap into a little bit of it. I find it interesting.

Cheers,
Robert
I dream of the day that the world will be healthy enough that I can play in a live ensemble again.
User avatar
BGuttman
Posts: 5897
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
Location: Cow Hampshire

Re: "Early" Conn trombones

Post by BGuttman »

I own several old Conns.

Many of the pro line are made quite well. Especially some of the older Bass trombones. I'll leave it to folks like Chris Stearn (Fossil) and Leif (Savio) to expound on that.

I own a Conn 40H "Ballroom". It's 0.500" bore, built with Tuning in Slide and a shortened bell (supposedly for easier mute insertion). It plays very well, but the TIS mechanism makes the slide rather heavy. I'm sure if you want to play Be-Bop it's going to hold you back. Engraving on mine is interesting although it's not as nice as some of the Sternberg horns. It plays a lot bigger than its bore and bell would seem.

I played a 44H Vocabell (belonged to a band I was a member of). Again, well-made. Very unusual design. The bell is a bit thicker than normal but is made without a bell rim. As a result they are often referred to as "razor bell" instruments although the edge is nowhere near as sharp as a razor.

Old Conns are good players if they are in good condition. They may suit your playing or not. You really have to try one to see what you think.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
User avatar
Oslide
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:13 am
Location: Switzerland, BL

Re: "Early" Conn trombones

Post by Oslide »

You mention Wikipedia, but in this case the "Conn Loyalist" is a great source of information.
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/
Ceterum censeo to fetch All of TTF
Posaunus
Posts: 3424
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:54 pm
Location: California

Re: "Early" Conn trombones

Post by Posaunus »

The Conn trombones fabricated in Elkhart, Indiana until that production was moved to Abilene, Texas (in ~1972) were of legendary quality, and are still highly sought after – especially the Elkhart Conn 88Hs. The bass trombones of that era are equally praised and prized.
dxhall
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: "Early" Conn trombones

Post by dxhall »

I have a 1916 Conn trombone. It’s silver, has a serial number, but no model number.

The quality seems high, and the engraving is very nice but not extravagant. I bought it because I have been reading about 20s and 30s jazz, and wanted to see whether the horns used by jazz players like Miff Mole sounded like modern horns.

Unsurprisingly, the sound is quite a bit different. Listen to Miff and His Little Molers on “You’re the Cream in my Coffee” (1928). He’s playing loud to be heard on the 1920s recording equipment, and the small bore size really puts an edge to his notes.

When I needed single-vision eyeglasses so that I could see the notes on a music stand, I bought frames just like Miff’s. Still can’t play like he did, though.
User avatar
BGuttman
Posts: 5897
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
Location: Cow Hampshire

Re: "Early" Conn trombones

Post by BGuttman »

Conn started using the model numbers with letters in 1919. H was slide trombones, G was valve trombones, A was cornets, B was trumpets, D was French Horns. Naturally there were other letters for other instruments. It's all there in the Margaret Downey Banks' "History of the Conn Company".
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
imsevimse
Posts: 1408
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:43 am
Location: Sweden

Re: "Early" Conn trombones

Post by imsevimse »

I have quite a few Conn tenor trombones. The oldest is from 1902. My experience is to modern standards the tenors before the middle 30-ies are outdated for example the TIS 38h, 42h, 40h, 18h from those years It's the same with the Kings I own. They are really good from the mid 30ies but I have not found much use of the earlier. This does not mean they are bad trombones its just they do not fit the modern sound and do not blend very well with the modern horns in the section. All the old TIS horns especially have their own sound. It does not fit any of the context where I perform.

/Tom
Last edited by imsevimse on Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
SwissTbone
Posts: 993
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:40 pm
Contact:

Re: "Early" Conn trombones

Post by SwissTbone »

I have recently acquired two Elkhart Conn 70H's. One from 1937, one from 1948. Both are very good trombones. To me they don't sound that different to the modern bass trombones I play and I would have no problem using them in a modern setting.
ƒƒ---------------------------------------------------ƒƒ
Like trombones? Head over to https://swisstbone.com/ to see some great vintage and custom horns!
imsevimse
Posts: 1408
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:43 am
Location: Sweden

Re: "Early" Conn trombones

Post by imsevimse »

cozzagiorgi wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:39 am I have recently acquired two Elkhart Conn 70H's. One from 1937, one from 1948. Both are very good trombones. To me they don't sound that different to the modern bass trombones I play and I would have no problem using them in a modern setting.
You are right about old basses with TIS. They seem to work in big band settings even today I have an old TIS Conn 70h from 1952. It plays very well. I used it last week in a big band and will do the gig that's coming up on that horn. It fits the section sound perfectly. My problem is the old small TIS tenors. They do not fit anywhere. Does someone have the same experience? If so, what's the theory?

/Tom
User avatar
HawaiiTromboneGuy
Posts: 741
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:37 am

Re: "Early" Conn trombones

Post by HawaiiTromboneGuy »

These two horns are just phenomenal to play. I try to use them whenever I have the chance. My Conn 3B mouthpiece seems to be a great fit with them.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Drew A.
Professional bum.
User avatar
BGuttman
Posts: 5897
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
Location: Cow Hampshire

Re: "Early" Conn trombones

Post by BGuttman »

I've played my 40H in Big Band. It is a little different sound; probably because of the very heavy slide due to the TIS. But I can get it to blend with a typical "geezer band" section.

The heavy slide makes playing very fast runs difficult; I would never suggest it for a "Boppy" piece.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
User avatar
SwissTbone
Posts: 993
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:40 pm
Contact:

Re: "Early" Conn trombones

Post by SwissTbone »

imsevimse wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:51 pm
cozzagiorgi wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:39 am I have recently acquired two Elkhart Conn 70H's. One from 1937, one from 1948. Both are very good trombones. To me they don't sound that different to the modern bass trombones I play and I would have no problem using them in a modern setting.
You are right about old basses with TIS. They seem to work in big band settings even today I have an old TIS Conn 70h from 1952. It plays very well. I used it last week in a big band and will do the gig that's coming up on that horn. It fits the section sound perfectly. My problem is the old small TIS tenors. They do not fit anywhere. Does someone have the same experience? If so, what's the theory?

/Tom
Oh I don't think they just fit big band. To me they sound perfectly fine for orchestra, symphonic wind band etc. I didn't use them yet in a british brass band style setting as I fear the high volume needed will let them sound overly bright. But one of these days I'll try it in a rehearsal.
ƒƒ---------------------------------------------------ƒƒ
Like trombones? Head over to https://swisstbone.com/ to see some great vintage and custom horns!
Post Reply

Return to “Instruments”