JP 136/236 Alto

[Mikebmiller]

Is the JP 136 an ok horn to try to learn alto on? It's only $350. They have a 236 for $750, but I can't really tell what the difference is looking at the JP web site, other than the bore size and the 236 is said to have "high grade brass."

Plus my local store is willing to bring on in for me to try out without committing to buy it

I realize neither of these is a pro level horn, but as long as the slide works and everything is glued together properly, it seems like you can't go wrong for $350.

[Matt K]

The 136 is the JinBao model that you can get rebranded by numerous companies. It's the slokar alto copy. The 236 is a JP Rath design and is, in my opinion, a better instrument. Many people, including myself, have started on the Slokar copy though I believe that one has a solered leadpipe so it would be worth it to go with someone like HornGuys who sells it with a much better leadpipe.

[Bach5G]

“I realize neither of these is a pro level horn, but as long as the slide works and everything is glued together properly, it seems like you can't go wrong for $350.”

You might be unpleasantly surprised.

I’ve had two 236s. The first, bought new, might have been ok with some slide work. The second was used and is ok for what it is, i.e. a $500 used alto.

I think you can probably get a decent used alto for not too much money, and if it doesn’t work out, you can resell it for what you paid.

[Mikebmiller]

I noticed that Horn Guys says their version of that horn is out of stock due to the company that makes the after market lead pipes shutting down.

https://www.hornguys.com/collections/al ... trombone-1

[Matt K]

Ah, well in that case, at least get one with the modular leadpipe and replace with another. Brassark sells one for that horn as well. It really makes an unbelievable difference.

[Mikebmiller]

So I have had the 136 for a week and am making reasonable progress towards learning how to play it. But it seems that there is not really a 7th position on this thing. Or at least 7th is just barely hanging on to the end of the inner slide. Does anyone know if the 236 is any better in this regard? I would consider trading up if it is.

[tbonesullivan]

I noticed that Horn Guys says their version of that horn is out of stock due to the company that makes the after market lead pipes shutting down.

https://www.hornguys.com/collections/al ... trombone-1

Well that's disappointing, but it seems to be how things are going now. Hopefully they can find another vendor to make the leadpipes.

[Matt K]

So I have had the 136 for a week and am making reasonable progress towards learning how to play it. But it seems that there is not really a 7th position on this thing. Or at least 7th is just barely hanging on to the end of the inner slide. Does anyone know if the 236 is any better in this regard? I would consider trading up if it is.

I tend to play with my tuning slide all the way in, which makes things sharp but that model is an exception; the leadpipe helped quite a bit but I still had to pull out on the tuning slide as far as it would go, which admittedly isn't very far. The bell side is what, 1"? And the slide side is like a quarter mile?

[bimmerman]

I'll check on my JP/Rath 236 (which is also for sale, shamelessly) when I get a chance. It's been years since I last played it but I don't remember it not having a 7th. It might've been close to the end of the slide but like I said, it's been a while.

[Mikebmiller]

Well that's disappointing, but it seems to be how things are going now. Hopefully they can find another vendor to make the leadpipes.

Is there a video or audio somewhere of the sound difference between the stock lead pipe and the magic aftermarket one? If I can make my cheap alto into a great alto for $200, I would be all in, but it would be nice to know what difference to expect.

[hyperbolica]

When I had a Jinbao alto, the upgrade leadpipe brought mainly low notes into focus. Without it, the bottom notes were unplayable.

[BGuttman]

You can make it from an awful alto into a fair alto. Good? Nah.

[StephenK]

Is there an alternative lead pipe for the jp236, that gives a good improvement?

[heinzgries]

chinese junk

[Matt K]

In my experience, the leadpipes make the horn play better in tune with itself. Eg the overtone series lines up better. I am also bias because the leadpipes seem to work well with the Elliott alto shank which I also use. In combination, the 136 style altos play as well as most intermediate horns. Which is to say, it doesn't have professional trim but it can be used in a professional setting if it suits you much in the same way the 354 can. Although the slide isn't as good in my experience. B stock ones are down right awful. But A stock ones are fine.

The 236 doesn't seem to suffer from the same problems and so the leadpipe swap isn't as beneficial. The stock one in the 136 is really not good.

[Mikebmiller]

In defense of the horn as is, the slide is excellent and the fit and finish are about as good as my 3b was when new. The lacquer is good and there is no excess solder or acid bleed. I suspect that Packer has a bit higher standards than many of the ebay sellers that slap a stencil on the same instrument. If I had not heard anything about this aftermarket pipe, I would have no reason to want to change. Granted, I am a week and a half into being an alto player, but it seems like a fairly nice horn, especially for the money. My only complaint is that the 7th position is at the very tip of the slide and hard to use. If I become a reasonably good alto player, I would maybe upgrade, but this horn will do me just fine for now. I certainly would not call it "Chinese junk."

[Mikebmiller]

Some pics:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/3DGFEDoAUuZFgM9q6

[virtualhaggis]

Is there an alternative lead pipe for the jp236, that gives a good improvement?

I got the JP 136 a few years ago for 60 GB pounds on E-Bay. It was awful. I then contacted Kuehnl & Hoyer (makers of Slokar alto) to ask if they sold lead pipes, but they told me to sod off (presumably sick of requests from Jinbao cheapskates like me). I contacted Rath to see if they had leadpipes and the did. I was going to a Slide Factory trombone event in the Netherlands and asked them to bring a couple of alto leadpipes, which they did. The amusing thing was that their stand was next door to K&H so I tried to be subtle testing a ripoff of their alto with a Rath leadpipe.

Long story short - one of the Rath leadpipes was perfect. Still not a patch on a real Slokar, but a million times better than the JP136 leadpipe and totally playable. Unfortunately I don't recall exactly which Rath leadpipe it was. You'd better nip off to your local Rath dealer and try them out. One thing to mention - the Rath thread did not fit so the leadpipe but it had a tight enough fit without screwing in.

[StephenK]

Thanks very much for this - very interesting!
I'm not familar with cross fitting lead pipes between manufacturers, and not sure how the JP236 leadpipe, would come out. (Do the treads stand proud if they don't fit?). I'm not sure of the nearest Rath dealer to me, maybe Prozone, not sure if they do Rath - I suspect they would probably try to sell me a nice new pro alto, but I could be wrong - I tried an alto on their stand at a BTS day not so long ago, and they suggested a visit as they have several altos (different makes) in stock. As an amateur I don't think I can justify a big spend on a new one, though I do use alto quite a bit.
I sometimes go on family visits to Wakefield, not a million miles from Rath homeland, so maybe I could try and fit a visit in there. Thanks again.

[MrHCinDE]

I was looking at the 136/236 and the Thomann own-brand altos and after trying a couple, decided to hold out for a used horn. After a few weeks looking I picked up a Yamaha YSL-671 in great condition for a fair price. My suspicion is, altos don’t get played that much and generally aren’t hammered in the same way a workhorse small-bore tenor might be so if you can find a decent used model, chances are it will be in good nick.

[virtualhaggis]

Thanks very much for this - very interesting!
I'm not familar with cross fitting lead pipes between manufacturers, and not sure how the JP236 leadpipe, would come out. (Do the treads stand proud if they don't fit?).

Yes - the threads stand proud. I could file the threads down or re-tap if I really needed, but I don't use it enough to bother.