Inner tube replacements Conn 30H and 32H

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Twilightbone
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Inner tube replacements Conn 30H and 32H

Post by Twilightbone »

Hi!
I have both a vintage Conn 30H and a Conn 32H. I have replaced inners in both horns and was surprised to see that, although Conn’s catalogue says the inners of the 32H are .500/522, .508/.525 bore replacements work very well. As far as the 30H concerns, I had the original .494/.507 replaced with .500/508 inners and the horn blows better also. So, there seems to be a pattern here and I wonder if anyone in the forum has replaced or tried to .508 inners in a Constellation, instead of the .500 listed in Conns catalogue.
imsevimse
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Re: Inner tube replacements Conn 30H and 32H

Post by imsevimse »

I have both a 32h and a 30h and would not want to replace with anything that would change their character. I understand this needs to be done if the leadpipe is trash or the whole slide is trash and there are no original parts to use. If it was me I would seek the closest match to not build a frankenbone. I would also think of the resell value. It will be worth more to a collector if the horn is close to its original.

I had to find another leadpipe for my New York Bach 6 model VIII and found a .485 lead pipe that is good but not a replica and it made the horn playable, even good but I would love to get a more close leadpipe to the original, that is a Bach 6 replica.

I guess it is two different views on how to look at replacements. Do you want any playable trombone (frankenbone with new features) or do you seek a classical horn sound to feel the wings of the history that plays like its original state. In any case I wish you luck with this project.

/Tom
Last edited by imsevimse on Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:16 am, edited 3 times in total.
brassmedic
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Re: Inner tube replacements Conn 30H and 32H

Post by brassmedic »

If you are matching new inners to existing outers, the outer diameter of the stockings is the important measurement, not the inner bore. This varies between manufacturers and even different models by the same manufacturer.
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Bonearzt
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Re: Inner tube replacements Conn 30H and 32H

Post by Bonearzt »

ANYTHING you do on horn involving changing parts will change how it plays or responds in some way.

If you're worried about resale value above playability, then you're better off leaving the horn as is and finding one in better shape that plays well for you.


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brtnats
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Re: Inner tube replacements Conn 30H and 32H

Post by brtnats »

I can’t speak to the 30H, but the 32H .522 leg is notoriously difficult to replace. My guess is that if you’ve gotten .508/.525 inners to fit, it says more about some slop in the outers than it does about viable replacement parts. I’m betting the outers have been down by .008 inches.
mfellows821
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Re: Inner tube replacements Conn 30H and 32H

Post by mfellows821 »

I think the tolerances on older horns and mass produced horns are greater than today's horns- especially the custom ones now available. Tooling has gotten better. I think you would have an impossible talk trying to use a larger inner tube on Edwards, Shires, Rath etc.
brassmedic
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Re: Inner tube replacements Conn 30H and 32H

Post by brassmedic »

Again - the bore size does NOT determine what the outer diameter of the stockings is. Some slide tubes are thicker than others. I have a 1930s 32H and a 1950s 48H. The .500 bore inner tube on the 32H is thicker than the .500 bore inner tube on the 48H. If I take the .500 bore inner slide tube from the 32H and try to insert it into the outer slide of the 48H, it DOES NOT GO IN. You are all still assuming that any .508 slide tube would have a larger outer diameter than any .500 slide tube, and that is not necessarily the case. The reason the .508 tube fit on the 32H slide is because that horn has larger outer tubes to accommodate the thicker inner slide tubes.

Another example of this is the Olds Opera, with a .554 bore. The "replacement" tubes that Allied sells are actually .562 tubes. They fit because the Opera had very thick inner slide tubes, so the bore size can be increased without changing the outer tubes.
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greenbean
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Re: Inner tube replacements Conn 30H and 32H

Post by greenbean »

brassmedic wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:33 pm Again - the bore size does NOT determine what the outer diameter of the stockings is. Some slide tubes are thicker than others. I have a 1930s 32H and a 1950s 48H. The .500 bore inner tube on the 32H is thicker than the .500 bore inner tube on the 48H. If I take the .500 bore inner slide tube from the 32H and try to insert it into the outer slide of the 48H, it DOES NOT GO IN. You are all still assuming that any .508 slide tube would have a larger outer diameter than any .500 slide tube, and that is not necessarily the case. The reason the .508 tube fit on the 32H slide is because that horn has larger outer tubes to accommodate the thicker inner slide tubes.
...
Exactly. For example, the Getzen .508-bore inner tubes have a stocking outer diameter that is the same as the inners from a 6H, 48H, and many other .500-bore horns. As 'brassmedic' has stated twice now... the outer diameter of the inner tube stockings is what is important.
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Twilightbone
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Re: Inner tube replacements Conn 30H and 32H

Post by Twilightbone »

Well, the idea of using a .500 as a sub for the original .494 is not mine. It came from Michael Corrigan, BAC instruments. He posted an article where he indicated that he did make that change and the horn did sound better. My 30H sounds better; no intonation issues or noticeable impediments regarding playability. After trying to find original replacement parts that were in best conditions than the ones already had it was the best I could do. Both horns sound very well. I’m not concerned about resale value because they I certainly intend to keep both horns. They do sound good.
Tbarh
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Re: Inner tube replacements Conn 30H and 32H

Post by Tbarh »

If You have an old trombone which needs New inners, wouldnt it be wise to also change outers? Usnt there a change that something could turn out bad?
Trond
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Re: Inner tube replacements Conn 30H and 32H

Post by WGWTR180 »

Tbarh wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:24 pm If You have an old trombone which needs New inners, wouldnt it be wise to also change outers? Usnt there a change that something could turn out bad?
Trond
Well I'm doing just that right now. I needed new inners on an older instrument and couldn't find anything where the stocking measurements were correct. So I'm having inners and outers made to match each other. I sent the old tubes out, they took measurements, and I'm patiently waiting for the company to reopen so I can have my tech put the slide together.
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hyperbolica
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Re: Inner tube replacements Conn 30H and 32H

Post by hyperbolica »

I've got a 32h, and I love how it plays/sounds, but I hate the ergonomics. The slide is too narrow. This goes double for the 30h. These are great horns, but resale on them is already so low that you can't really do any damage by modding them. I've wanted to put a wider crook on my 32h, but when I put a 78h slide on it, it really plays badly, and it's hard to say if that's mainly from the increased top bore or the wider crook. I may go at it from the other direction, and put a 508 tube in the top slide of the 78h.
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