Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

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Fruitysloth
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Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

Post by Fruitysloth »

I'm looking at two altos, either a Bach 39, or a Conn 36H. The Bach is being sold for $1200, the Conn for 1850. Preference on either? Things to look for? I can't play play test either one. The 36H has the Bb valve, so I'm on the fence. Opinions? Thanks in advance!
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Matt K
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Re: Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

Post by Matt K »

I used a Bach 39 in college and I owned a 36 for awhile. I would go for the 36 personally. If you REALLY liked the Bach sound or something there is very little else that will do. But the 36 is way less quirky. I did swap out my leadpipe which I would also recommend if you are so inclined. Or at least get a shank specifically for the Conn leadpipe. The Bb attachment is also really handy to have for trills and also makes e naturals much, much easier than otherwise.
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Re: Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

Post by MrHCinDE »

I have never tried the Bach so couldn’t give any comparison but I’m very happy with my 36h.

I like the flexibility of the Bb valve for one of the groups I play it in, I sometimes cover french horn parts which can have a ridiculous range so the valve is really useful, even if it’s main purpose is to open up more options for lip trills.

On pure sound and playability for classical alto parts, the Yamaha 671 I played previously was at least as good and significantly cheaper, which wasn’t what the OP asked about but thought I’d mention since the Yamaha is really a superb instrument.
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Re: Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

Post by Fruitysloth »

Matt K wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:12 pm I used a Bach 39 in college and I owned a 36 for awhile. I would go for the 36 personally. If you REALLY liked the Bach sound or something there is very little else that will do. But the 36 is way less quirky. I did swap out my leadpipe which I would also recommend if you are so inclined. Or at least get a shank specifically for the Conn leadpipe. The Bb attachment is also really handy to have for trills and also makes e naturals much, much easier than otherwise.
The E natural was my first thought, as I've done Mendelssohn's Reformation Symphony, and couldn't play any of the E's in the staff. I haven't played enough Bach horns to really know the "Bach" sound. Thanks for the input!
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Re: Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

Post by harrisonreed »

If it is your first alto, neither will play the way you want them too. The 36H is more forgiving with intonation, and that's saying something.

Having the valve on the 36H will allow you to play the Brad Edwards exercises a 4th up, which is a wonderful warm up to get the alto working for you.
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Re: Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

Post by MTbassbone »

I played a Conn36H for a few years in college. It's a decent alto. I have never played a Bach 39. The common complaint from owners is the intonation.
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Re: Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

Post by imsevimse »

I have a Bach 39. I think anyone who has not played Alto before needs to take care of intonation issues as they start. Intonation on the Bach 39 can be learned too. It can produce a very neat and sweet alto sound that fits right between trumpets and tenor trombone in the orchestra.

/Tom
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Re: Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

Post by mbtrombone »

The bore sizes of the two are different. The 36H and 34H are larger than the Bach 39. When I was in undergrad I played a 39 the school had and I bought a 36H for the Bb valve. I found I liked the 39 for solo work, but the 36H was great for section work like Brahms was easier to play in a section with a .547 2nd and .562 bass. I believe Mark Lawrence liked the Conn altos for use in orchestral section work.
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Re: Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

Post by hyperbolica »

When I was at New England Conservatory, the grad students all complained about the 39.36 seemed more familiar to play.

I personally would probably get a 34h. I don't see the point of a trigger on an alto.
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Re: Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

Post by harrisonreed »

The valve is just for being able to play lip trills. You get all the Eb lip trills, press the valve, you get most of the Bb tenor lip trills too.

If you want to play your own music, or arrangements from other instruments, the extra range is nice. It's for soloists.
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Re: Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

Post by CalgaryTbone »

The Conns are very good horns - both the 36H (w/valve) and 34H (without). The 34H plays a bit lighter, and the B flat attachment on the 36H is very handy for giving you secure 6th and 7th position notes without being so close to the end of the slide (which always feels a little precarious on the alto). Also, like Harrison said, it gives you some more choices for lip trills in the solo literature, and even some valve trills. I'm not a big fan of the Bach altos, but I have tried a couple that I thought played well - just not very user-friendly tuning-wise. For the money, I think the Conns are the best deal out there (esp. the 34H, which is a bit less expensive than the 36H). To beat either of those horns, you need to spend a lot more for a Shires, Rath, or some of the boutique German horns.

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Re: Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

Post by LeTromboniste »

I haven't played more than a few notes on a Conn alto so I can't have an opinion on them. But I'd never buy a Bach 39. Really weird intonation, always feel the sound is too trumpet-y and the bell is just way to close to the player's face. I've never had a good experience playing one or playing next to one. I'd frankly rather play a good specimen Jin Bao than a 39! Yamahas are great and sometimes available used around that price point. Courtois makes a stellar alto, although they're not cheap. If it's between only those two, I would say the Conn, because the 39 is to me a non-option, especially if purchased blind.
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Re: Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

Post by imsevimse »

LeTromboniste wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:10 am I haven't played more than a few notes on a Conn alto so I can't have an opinion on them. But I'd never buy a Bach 39. Really weird intonation, always feel the sound is too trumpet-y and the bell is just way to close to the player's face.
As I said the intonation can be learned and it is not more difficult than to adopt to other switches we do. I've read here (on the forum) many people who don't play alto much just don't like the Bach because it is too small and is hard to play (hard to play=intonation quirks) but then none discuss its purpose. Everything can be learned and as one that switch a lot it isn't that a big problem to get used to a different horn. Why consider a Bach 39? It really depends on what it is used for. The gain is in sound and it comes from its size but of course taste depends on what we want. It isn't an alto that plays VERY big, but when would that be appropriate? I have used my alto mostly in church gigs and it is probably the horn that paid best from all my horns. It is really easy to play soft with a sound that shines iwithout being loud n small orchestras with only a few strings and easy to lead a trombonesection without being loud.

/Tom
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Re: Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

Post by heinzgries »

I have a big collection of alto trombones. Under other things a Conn 34H, a Bach 39, two big bore Helmut Voigt altos, a Finke and a custom made Torsten Mittag alto. The Finke and the Mittag are comparable with the Conn 34H. When i have to blend with large Tenors, i mostly use the Conn or the big bore Voigt. Also the Mittag bell section with the Conn 34H slide. Its the same receiver. The Bach 39 is a class of its on. But never bad. If its feel to trumpety, use a mouthpiece thats not to shallow.
Try a Bach 9, 11, 12, 15, not the C cup. I use a Klier F cup which is deeper than a Bach C cup. The mouthpiece receiver from the Conn and the Bach is a bit smaller than a normal Tenor shank. So use a lathe to make the shank fit deep enough in the receiver, or use a compareable Doug Elliot mouthpiece with the small alto shank.
Time ago there was a video in the net with Michael Lake. He plays a Bach 39 with a relativ big mouthpiece. It sounds never to trumpety. If i will find it i make another posting
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Re: Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

Post by EOlson9 »

Correction to the last post...Mike Lake plays a Yamaha (671 if I recall correctly). He talked about it some in a few of his videos, such as the pBone mini review.
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Re: Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

Post by harrisonreed »

It's not a crime to dislike a Bach 39 if it is difficult to play. I can't think of anyone besides Mike Lake who is full time on alto, and he isn't playing one and didn't need to put in the extra time to learn those quirks. For the rest of us, who have to go back and forth, people sound better if they enjoy the instrument they are playing on and it is easy for them. That alone is a massive plus for altos that fit that bill.

This sound concept thing between the two horns is not as great as it is being made out to be. If the Bach 39 sounds bad or out of tune to someone because the partials are wonky, and everyone is in agreement that they are wonky, then it's OK to not like it and move on. If you put in a ton of effort to make it work, that's cool too. Making it work doesn't mean everyone else needs to make it work too. The juice has to be worth the squeeze.
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Re: Bach 39 V. Conn 36H

Post by imsevimse »

harrisonreed wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:10 pm It's not a crime to dislike a Bach 39 if it is difficult to play. I can't think of anyone besides Mike Lake who is full time on alto, and he isn't playing one and didn't need to put in the extra time to learn those quirks. For the rest of us, who have to go back and forth, people sound better if they enjoy the instrument they are playing on and it is easy for them. That alone is a massive plus for altos that fit that bill.

This sound concept thing between the two horns is not as great as it is being made out to be. If the Bach 39 sounds bad or out of tune to someone because the partials are wonky, and everyone is in agreement that they are wonky, then it's OK to not like it and move on. If you put in a ton of effort to make it work, that's cool too. Making it work doesn't mean everyone else needs to make it work too. The juice has to be worth the squeeze.
It makes sense to take the easy way. Why struggle if you don't have to, but I think the negative is blown up a bit and
when we discuss inline basses none complains much about having to deal with four different systems where to find positions and difficulties with all of the corrections that one has to do accordingly. To me learning all that is bigger question than the little quirks on an Bach 39. On the other hand I may be disqualified to have an opinion about it because I have had the Bach for more than forty years and learned the quirks long before I know it had quirks. I probably never heard about it the first twenty years when I learned how to play it.

/Tom
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