beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

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august
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beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by august » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:01 pm

Hello all, this is my first post. I am an adult beginner on the trombone with a little late beginner level to early intermediate level background on piano. I have been practicing for about 6 months on a cheap chinese horn and I am thinking about buying a used 3b or 2b or something similar. What do you all think about my wanting to buy a pro level horn so early in my studies? Will it hurt or help me? I just want an instrument that won't hold me back from getting better and giving me a better sound thus being more fun to play on. Also a little more incentive to practice more. Any tips would be much appreciated. Thank you all for your help.
Doug Elliott
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by Doug Elliott » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:21 pm

You can't really go wrong with a 3B.

There are "cheap chinese horns" that are awful and others that are fine. The same goes for "pro level horns."

I had a 3B when I was 11 or 12. A lot depends on what kind of playing you want to do, but a 3B is a good all around choice that will fit almost anywhere you're likely to play.
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Burgerbob
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by Burgerbob » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:57 pm

Much of the reason student horns exist is because young beginners don't necessarily take care of something as well as an adult.

If you want to start on a 3B, then that's a fine starting place.
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Conn100HGuy
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by Conn100HGuy » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:02 pm

If you were considering the oboe or bassoon, you may not want to sink 20K or more into a "pro" horn. You can get an absolutely fine pro trombone for less than $1,000 if you shop wisely. DK is the best place on the forum to start.
Onward and Upward
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Kingfan
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by Kingfan » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:04 pm

First, kudos to you for taking the plunge. Bravo! Student level horns are recommended for young players starting out because they are generally built stronger and can withstand being knocked around better. Plus, if a student horn is damaged beyond repair it is like totaling a Chevy and not a Cadillac. Much less painful to the wallet! You, however, are not a kid. I don't see any reason NOT to get a 3B - it won't hurt your playing, that's for sure. Another option is to get a good quality student or step-up horn. King 607 gives you the F attachment but is less expensive than a 3B-F. Yamaha YSL-200 and YSL-354 student horns have a reputation to punch above their weight. There are Bachs and Conns and other trombones that can do you quite well. I have a full quiver of "pro" quality Kings and a Getzen 400 student horn, and the difference in sound and response of the small bore Kings and the Getzen is very small. I'll add that a 2B is a bright sounding small bore horn suitable for jazz and Dixieland, but a 3B has a slightly bigger bore and a richer tone. I reserve my 2B for lead tbone solos in a big band and for Dixieland, but use my 3B for lead, 2nd, or 3rd in a big band and community band as it is more versatile like Doug said above. Just my opinion, YMMV. If you live in the Cleveland area, I would be happy to loan you a 3B or 3B-F for an extended test drive. Doug Elliott and others here do Skype lessons and can help you move ahead if you don't have a local coach.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
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Thrawn22
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by Thrawn22 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:57 pm

A good horn is an investment. While odds are it won't gain value, it certainly won't be almost worthless in a year.
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harrisonreed
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by harrisonreed » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:48 pm

Conn100HGuy wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:02 pm
If you were considering the oboe or bassoon, you may not want to sink 20K or more into a "pro" horn. You can get an absolutely fine pro trombone for less than $1,000 if you shop wisely. DK is the best place on the forum to start.
Last I checked the standard 600+ series Fox bassoons are $29,000...

Like the bach 42 of the bassoon world.

You can pay a lot more. How about the Muramatsu flutes? You can pay $140,000 for a flute from them.

We are lucky that even the most expensive contemporary trombones in the world will rarely cost more than $5k, and only a few european brands break $10k. $2000 for a brand new pro tenor is a steal, compared to any other instrument besides trumpets and penny whistles.
Goten56
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by Goten56 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:15 am

I guess you play jazz if you're thinking of 2B or 3B.
If I'm right, you should check Martin Committees, too.
JCBone
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by JCBone » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:55 am

Student horns are meant for kids who aren't responsible/carefull enough to take care of a expensive instrument. Assuming you are a responsible adult, you can afford it, and you think you'll stick with it, then it will do nothing but help you. As mentioned, the 2B is meant more for lead in a band while the 3B is a bit more versatile. I would consider looking at a King 3BF which has an F atrachment which is useful. Medium bore instruments like the Bach 36 (or 36B and Yamaha YSL640 with the f atrachment) would also be suitable for orchestral playing if you choose to go down that route.

If you decide that you want to focus on classical then I would go for a large bore like a Bach 42B, Conn 88H, or Yamaha YSL620.

Finally, if you don't quite want to make the splurge, then there are plenty of good quality student horns that would be an upgrade, good ones include the Yamaha YSL345 or the King 606. If you want an F atrachment then there is the King 607F, the King 608F, and the Yamaha YSL448G.

Hope this helps
Vegasbound
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by Vegasbound » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:22 am

Buy the 3b, very versatile horn and hold their resale value if you change your mind...... Contact DJ Kennedy he has many 3b's of different vintages

Also you do not say if you have a teacher? If you don't then get one will help you get the best start
august
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by august » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:30 am

Thanks for all the replies and help. I just needed to hear some good advice and i think I got some. Thanks again.
djkennedy
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by djkennedy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:40 am

Many players in community bands play on
Student line horns their whole life
One of the main differences in trombones
Is the inner slides chrome over brass
Or chrome over nickle silver
In time generally the pro level horns
Last longer and are better made
Money wise look at the MSRP
the price of a new Yamaha King 606
is comparable to used3B Conn 6H 2-3B
In many ways tools like wrenches hammers are
The same even though the differences have become
Less in the old Days Craftsman Proto Estwing
Beat imports it shows especially in chisels
And screwdrivers files but the old USA brands used
Steel alloys much harder
People would buy their moms these little tool
Kits that looked like tools ⚒
But hope you never had to use them
Anyway you’re not a kid so why not get something good
Good for yourself Redwing boots 🥾
and a cool 3B or 2B
If you wanna Sterling bell you aren’t gonna
Buy a Sterling bell Conn Director!!!!!!!
Out here in the stix this drummer in
The municipal bank Dr Beers was bragging how he
Bought his daughter a new 354 at Shivelbines
for 700 at that time I could’ve hit a used
Bach 12. for 5!!!!!!!!
If you want a 2B or 3B I have
Prices vary these things are tough and they survive
Mostly it’s cosmetics Old school players love the HNWHITE era everything beautiful including the
Cases the New ones are great too
They are still making them
The players here many have several horns
And these guys are a kind of brotherhood
To play a trombone for any length of time
Means suffering frustration struggle often
a quest once in awhile satisfaction and feeling
like you have done something
This is why you came to the trombone chat
Okokokoko we support each other
Welcome 🙏
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ArbanRubank
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by ArbanRubank » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:48 am

Here's the deal - as I've always seen it - about owning a good quality, widely-accepted professional-grade horn or it's equivalent; it at least should reduce the list of possible reasons for my not being able to play as well as I would like, given the horn is a decent match for what I wish to play. Now, the mouthpiece on the other hand (lol)...

Edit: There certainly are a lot of exceptions, but it would probably be a better bet to buy a good used horn from a player and seller of same - such as DJ above, who has often been recommended by others on this Forum.
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Vegastokc
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by Vegastokc » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:45 am

august wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:01 pm
Hello all, this is my first post. I am an adult beginner on the trombone...
Welcome to the rabbit hole, Alice. :D :good:
Michael Saffier
just a guy with a mild trombone habit; I can quit anytime I want...
mfturner
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by mfturner » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:20 am

If it helps, my kid learned on a Conn 24h, considered a pro horn. It helps that it was gifted to us, had lots of "character" already LOL, and we found a good tech to work over it. Now that my kids in college and and covid is restricting band activity, I've been learning with it. Once marching band starts back up at college for my kid, I'll have to contact DJ Kennedy for a horn of my own LOL.
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BGuttman
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by BGuttman » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:33 am

The 24H is closer to a 2B than a 3B. And there's nothing wrong with a nice 24H for you either.
Bruce Guttman
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robcat2075
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by robcat2075 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:26 am

You already have the Chinese beater for marching bands and polka festivals.

Go ahead and get yourself a better horn. It is unlikely to harm you in any way. Used ones can be quite a bargain

Choosing a particular one will be a more daunting decision.
>>Robert Holmén<<

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spencercarran
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by spencercarran » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:14 pm

Go ahead and get the nice horn (assuming it's within a budget you're comfortable with), and try not to drop it
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by tbonesullivan » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:54 pm

One of the biggest reasons is that it does take a bit of time before you get used to remembering the slide lock. When I first started playing, outer slides falling off was a regular occurrence.
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39 Alto & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YSL-640, YBL-612 RII, YBL-613HS, & YBB-631S Tuba, B&H Eb Tuba, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
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CharlieB
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Re: beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?

Post by CharlieB » Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:59 pm


beginner should not get a pro level horn? Why?


Why?
Irrelevant because the premise is not true.
A pro level horn is almost always more pleasurable to play than a student level Chinese horn.
Ideally, you should have a trombone teacher who could guide you about this. If that's not doable, please don't take the risk of buying a horn off of ebay. This forum has a classified section with hundreds of terrific used pro level horns for sale, and lots of friendly trombonists to steer you in the right direction.
Looking for a Conn 6H or a King 3B would be a good place to start. If that doesn't workout, there are other good ones.
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