best visual explanation and demonstration of overtones ever

[timothy42b]

Relevance to trombone? Sam uses overtone singing to shape the vocal cavity for different ranges.

[baileyman]

And to make those things pop outa the horn, too. Really freaky to hear and see.

[harrisonreed]

Yes, but clearly her arms and hands are what change the overtones, so it is not possible while playing the trombone to do this, but it is possible to do while playing the theremin. We just can't see the theremin because it is off camera...

[AndrewMeronek]

Yes, but clearly her arms and hands are what change the overtones, so it is not possible while playing the trombone to do this, but it is possible to do while playing the theremin. We just can't see the theremin because it is off camera...

I can't tell if you're being ironic or serious.

[harrisonreed]

[Posaunus]

Remarkable. Great illustration.
Ms Hefele is an unusually talented artist. I also enjoyed her Website:
www.anna-maria-hefele.com
Check out the videos of the Biber "Rosary Sonata" and "Somewhere over the rainbow"

Timothy, please elaborate on the relevance to trombone? Who is Sam? Does he do something similar on trombone? Link?

[Doug Elliott]

Sam Burtis talks about vowel shaping to bring out different overtones in your sound. I do similar stuff with some of my students.
I don't agree with everything he says - I have a different approach to buzzing - but in those videos he demonstrates what he does.

[Posaunus]

Thanks Doug. Now I understand.

I miss Sam Burtis's frequent posts and often-wise commentary as "Sambutin" on The Trombone Forum. Let's bring him over to TromboneChat!

[brtnats]

The overtone thing Sam is discussing is the real deal. I learned to overtone sing this year, and isolating those overtones in the mouth really focuses your attention on fine-tuning your sound on the horn. Good party trick too.

[Wilktone]

I've been fascinated by polyphonic singing for a long time and Anna-Maria Hefele is one of the best I've heard at it. But if you want to practice working on tongue position for trombone playing, my opinion is that the best way to do that is while playing the trombone. It's sort of like whistling, you can demonstrate the concept of the aural cavity as a resonating chamber and how tongue position is used to tune it, but trying to force the tongue position you use for overtone singing into where you place it for trombone playing may end up being wrong. Whistling and polyphonic singing both also have elements to them that aren't so conducive to trombone playing, and care should be taken to make sure those don't creep into how you play trombone.

For me, my tongue position while overtone singing is *completely* different from my trombone playing.

One of the keys to bringing out the overtones in polyphonic singing is having a certain throat constriction. Closing off more of the throat helps to make the resonance of the oral chamber stronger. This is what helps the Tuvan throat singers have such loud and clear overtones and also gives them their characteristic vocal tone.



I've discovered that applying throat singing techniques to trombone multiphonics allows me to produce 4 or more pitches beyond the 3 that I normally get. I'm certainly no expert in either throat singing or multiphonic technique, but if you're interested there is that application to trombone playing.


Dave

[Doug Elliott]

The most important part is what brtnats said - "focuses your attention on fine-tuning your sound"

It opens your mind to other possibilities instead of what so many teach, that everything should be as open as possible all the time - which is not true and limits a lot of players' progress..

[timothy42b]

Doug mentioned to me once that if I could get my tongue position dialed in better I could play longer with less effort. He also said he changes his buzz pitch with tongue rather than lip tension. A couple years later i think maybe I'm starting to understand it a little. Baileyman here recently talked about his resonance concept, where he moves through the partials using tongue position to shape the vocal cavity. I've discovered I can chip a note every time if I use a bad enough vowel, even when I seem to be set correctly. And of course years ago I watched Sam's videos. So I think all these concepts are different looks at the same idea to some extent, and that's also why I've been intrigued by Anna-Maria, and the Mongolian throat singers I watched.

And recently I started to think it works in reverse as well. I start every morning on F4, trying to play it as the center of my relaxed range. I also sing that note, trying for a certain voice quality, and doing a gliss down and up an octave. As I play I extend the singing higher. Most days I can get a clean sung note up to about C5, despite having a range in choir of only D4.

And the reverse is true. If I play something I learned in high school, like a Sousa march, I am likely to revert to the vowel I learned with it, and be limited in range and endurance even though my chops are much stronger now.