Low Brass "Doublers" Degree.

[MKtuba]

(Cross post from Tubenet)

Though I am still a sophomore in my undergrad, I have begun the process of beginning to compile a list of potential schools to begin my graduate work at. I know people will tell me not to worry about it, and "I still have time" but I am just a meticulous planner by nature, and would like to have the foundation of a plan laid out soon.

What I am looking for are universities that offer some sort of "Low Brass Doublers" degree. I have heard people talk about this, and my university offers a "Multiple Woodwinds" degree, so I am certain that something like this must exist for us low brass players. I am particularly looking for a place that I can study Euphonium, Tenor, and Bass trombone in addition to Tuba which is my primary instrument. It would be a HUGE plus if the university offered an assistantship for this position.

Because of me adding a double major in Psychology, as well as doing my first two semesters as a Music Ed major before switching to performance, I will take about 5 1/2 years (11 semesters) to finish up my undergraduate work, though with full time summer semesters I could totally shorten that down by at least 2 regular semesters. The point is, It will probably be the fall of 26 or 27 that I would be entering this degree.

Another option I am considering is doing a double masters in euphonium and bass trombone, or maybe tuba and bass trombone though I am not sure what the best way to do this would be. Again, I would prefer a full assistantship.

If anyone has any advice, or could weigh in on schools with programs like this I would appreciate the advice.

[Matt K]

I kind of did this, or at least started such a masters degree. Officially I think it was a masters in orchestral performance with an emphasis on trombone and euphonium. Obviously, the orchestra and euphonium there are a bit funny in hindsight. I had a complete assistantship that required me to play euph in the wind ensemble and then I was free to study whatever else I wanted. I ended up being in the big band and orchestra on tenor and euph in the wind ensemble as mentioned. I took lessons from the classical and the jazz trombone professor.

This was at Shenandoah Conservatory and I thought the overall experience was quite good, especially for a smaller school. I could have had more playing opportunities too but I was focusing on tenor at the time and the coursework was slightly more intense the first year so being in so many ensembles was very time consuming with all the other coursework.

Something you might want to consider is going to a larger school like a UNT even if they don’t offer a multiple instrument masters. Just focus on one for the official degree. But then take advantage of how many ensembles there are and use them to work on your doubling. Tom Malone did something like that there. Iirc he was alto sax in the 3 o’clock band, jazz trumpet in the 2 o’clock, and lead bone in the 1 o’clock band!!

[2bobone]

In 1958 I was a Guinea Pig in a new program at The Eastman School of Music which offered a degree in low brass [Trombone, Euphonium & Tuba] and a parallel degree in high brass [Trumpet & French Horn]. I played my Junior year jury on all three instruments successfully. The ESM brass faculty who comprised the jury were very supportive of the extra effort I expended but I have no idea if the experiment continued beyond the first year. To my good fortune, I was drafted into the Army as a euphonium player in The U.S. Army Band and switched to bass trombone about midway in my enlistment. I met some of the greatest musicians and wonderful human beings I've ever known during those years. Yes, there was such a thing as giving up several of the most productive years of your life to military service to your country. You weren't asked, but were "invited" to join. When my enlistment was finished, the bass trombone opened doors to The National Ballet Orchestra, The National Theater and soon thereafter The National Symphony Orchestra as well as many opportunities in the free-lancing world. I can't imagine how much more difficult it would be to follow that track today as situations have changed so much, but I applaud anyone with the "Chutzpah" to do so ! It was a great ride. Go for it !!

[harrisonreed]

I'd avoid a euphonium degree to the maximum extent possible. Music degrees basically just buy you time. Maybe a really high profile education in trombone or tuba could lead to a good job, especially in education. The study of those instruments often includes the study of euphonium. But euphonium as its own discipline? You don't need that grad degree to work for the only organization that hires euphonium players. You just need to pass one of three levels of auditions.

You probably have a good plan doubling trombone / tuba but don't do euph.

[Burgerbob]

I think it's a great idea to be a doubler, but don't set yourself entirely on getting a masters that has degrees in all those instruments.

I double a LOT (literally 4 or 5 instruments in the last... two days) and I have two entire degrees in classical bass trombone. I just happened to work on those instruments because I liked doing it, and played plenty of euph, tuba, tenor trombone in college and after.

Remember that the degrees, if you're playing professionally, mean basically nothing. It's a good way to learn, but no one will give you more gigs because you have a master's in it. People with degrees are a dime a dozen- people that play well and are a good hang are a bit fewer.

Again, if you get into a good program that offers this, go ahead and do it! But if you find a program in a place you want to work, with a great teacher, for not too much money... I'd do that instead.

[Matt K]

I'd avoid a euphonium degree to the maximum extent possible. Music degrees basically just buy you time. Maybe a really high profile education in trombone or tuba could lead to a good job, especially in education. But euphonium? You don't need that degree to work for the only organization that hires euphonium players. You just need to pass one of three levels of auditions.

You probably have a good plan, but don't do euph.

I agree and should caveat that my degree would have had both instruments or possibly only trombone; I wasn't officially a euphonium major exclusively. I should also caveat that I'm no longer what I would consider a professional musician so take my advice with a major grain of salt.

[WilliamLang]

I like a lot of Burgerbob's advice - playing well and being a good hang will always be the most important. Degrees can help you make connections, but primarily, those are through teachers first. With that said, if you are a flexible musician, you can get a lot of mileage out of being available to composition departments/

For the music itself - in time, in tune, on every instrument. Easy enough! Maybe, in all seriousness, learning to sing would be great training that could work across every instrument (the hear it first and then play it approach.)

With that said, there are teachers out there that would be intrigued by the challenge (I'd be one of them,) and you should definitely be up front with the professors as you narrow down your choices. Their ability to adapt to you and look at school choice as a mutual decision could be an important deciding factor in where you go.

[MKtuba]

Something you might want to consider is going to a larger school like a UNT even if they don’t offer a multiple instrument masters. Just focus on one for the official degree. But then take advantage of how many ensembles there are and use them to work on your doubling. Tom Malone did something like that there. Iirc he was alto sax in the 3 o’clock band, jazz trumpet in the 2 o’clock, and lead bone in the 1 o’clock band!!

Funnily enough, UNT is on my list for a simliar reason. In a lot of ways I think my strongest double is on the Electric bass, and UNT is one of the only schools in the country where you can play electric bass without knowing upright! I would love to learn upright but just don't have the spare money to devote to getting a decent instrument. Like I said, I would be willing to go in for "just" a tuba performance degree, if I am also allowed and encouraged to work on my doubles.

[MKtuba]

I'd avoid a euphonium degree to the maximum extent possible. Music degrees basically just buy you time. Maybe a really high profile education in trombone or tuba could lead to a good job, especially in education. The study of those instruments often includes the study of euphonium. But euphonium as its own discipline? You don't need that grad degree to work for the only organization that hires euphonium players. You just need to pass one of three levels of auditions.

You probably have a good plan doubling trombone / tuba but don't do euph.

I don't think that I will ever have a degree in the euphonium, however I would really like to spend serious time on the instrument during my graduate studies. Also, if I have a masters in euph, but end up doing a DMA in tuba or trombone or something, is it really a prohibitive thing to have that extra degree? I don't intend on paying for my masters, and if the Euph is what gets my masters paid for then thats what I will do.

[MKtuba]

I think it's a great idea to be a doubler, but don't set yourself entirely on getting a masters that has degrees in all those instruments.

I double a LOT (literally 4 or 5 instruments in the last... two days) and I have two entire degrees in classical bass trombone. I just happened to work on those instruments because I liked doing it, and played plenty of euph, tuba, tenor trombone in college and after.

Remember that the degrees, if you're playing professionally, mean basically nothing. It's a good way to learn, but no one will give you more gigs because you have a master's in it. People with degrees are a dime a dozen- people that play well and are a good hang are a bit fewer.

Again, if you get into a good program that offers this, go ahead and do it! But if you find a program in a place you want to work, with a great teacher, for not too much money... I'd do that instead.

Really great advice, thank you! My primary reason for wanting to do this at the collegiate level is having access to great teachers that can help me along the way. Like I said in the initial post, I am fine with having a masters in Tuba, if I am also able to study the trombone and euphonium at the same time.

Also, next year (if all goes well) I should be starting "non major" trombone lessons at Michigan State with our trombone professor. This may be enough to scratch the itch, and get me going on the instrument. I am one of the people that does not believe that you NEED a degree in performance to be able to perform (though I suppose my post may suggest otherwise). I just think that it would be a really great way to have a concentrated study of my other instruments at the collegiate level. It's not a "must" but is something I am interested in pursuing.

[harrisonreed]

What's the end goal with all of this? Do you want to learn all those instruments to be a college teacher, or do you want to primarily perform on all those instruments?

Based on your last post you did, it seems like you want to perform. If that's really the case, the things you need to learn are TONE, INTONATION, TIME, and then actually learn intonation, time, and tone and maybe a little bit of artistry on top of that once you've learned those things the first time. You need to really take it to the max extent on just one instrument. Everyone is on that journey, and really good, successful musicians are on the second time through on that journey.

It's difficult to do even on one instrument. Of course there are successful doublers, like Markey (tenor and bass) and Alessi (Trombone and Euph/Baritone) and many others, but I wonder how focused they were on doubling before they got their first job, and how much of that was personal study as an extension of their concentrated study of the tenor trombone? Doubling might help you learn to be a better musician, but it might just as well hinder you too.

[spencercarran]

I'd avoid a euphonium degree to the maximum extent possible. Music degrees basically just buy you time. Maybe a really high profile education in trombone or tuba could lead to a good job, especially in education. The study of those instruments often includes the study of euphonium. But euphonium as its own discipline? You don't need that grad degree to work for the only organization that hires euphonium players. You just need to pass one of three levels of auditions.

You probably have a good plan doubling trombone / tuba but don't do euph.

One would hope that the process of fulfilling your degree requirements also helps you improve on that instrument, giving you a better chance at the audition.

[harrisonreed]

I'd avoid a euphonium degree to the maximum extent possible. Music degrees basically just buy you time. Maybe a really high profile education in trombone or tuba could lead to a good job, especially in education. The study of those instruments often includes the study of euphonium. But euphonium as its own discipline? You don't need that grad degree to work for the only organization that hires euphonium players. You just need to pass one of three levels of auditions.

You probably have a good plan doubling trombone / tuba but don't do euph.

One would hope that the process of fulfilling your degree requirements also helps you improve on that instrument, giving you a better chance at the audition.

I'm not sure if this is a critique of what you quoted. My point is, if we don't include National Guard and Reserve Bands which are not full time, there are probably 50-60 full time euph positions in the US. To my knowledge a grad degree is not required for any of those, and most of the people holding those positions passed the audition with a bachelor's degree. Maybe 15-20 of those positions are at premiere bands, with very difficult concert band rep. The rest are all ceremonial, marches, etc. If you want to be a pro euph player, get a bachelor's degree in anything, and then pass the audition. Going for a grad degree in euphonium might be good if you need to bide your time to win a premier band slot, but there is no other euph position out there to audition for. Seems like everyone in the coast guard is from NEC. The other premiere bands have trends with other conservatories, too.

It's important to know what performance jobs exists, and where the people who won those positions came from.

I am probably missing a few jobs that pay a living wage in performance, and would be curious to hear what those are. Asking at work there don't seem to be any, and I only heard about 2 euph specific teaching jobs.

[CalgaryTbone]

If you're interested in teaching, Euphonium is a good second instrument. There are small colleges/universities that have a single teacher for all of the low brass. Playing Trombone and some valves is almost a must for that. Also, a few larger universities have a Euphonium player that is the teacher for all of the Euphoniums and Tubas (not any more unusual than a Tuba player teaching Euphoniums). Also, some orchestras have one player in the section who is responsible for the valve work (Euphonium/Bass Trumpet). Even if it's a 3-person section, the fact that someone is able to cover those parts is a "plus" in the audition. Many smaller cities have a lot easier time finding someone to come in as a Trombone sub than finding someone who can play the Tenor Tuba part in The Planets. Good low brass valve players are often hard to find.

Jim Scott