Shift vs Pivot

[kingtempo504]

Just wanted to ask a question regarding embouchure shifting and the pivot system. Why is pivoting considered so much better than shifting? And is there a way to get 5-6 octaves with no shift and no pivot?

[mbtrombone]

I think most people use what works for them best. Either way I always think of my goal as being to not have any shifts at all. I also focus on trying to have students that do have them to either minimize them and to also have overlap, so no hard shift note, but note(s) that can be played really well with both settings.

[timothy42b]

The way I see it, a pivot is careful control of the natural changes in direction of pressure of the mouthpiece while not moving the placement; it should allow maximum possible changes of range without changing placement.

A shift is either an actual change of placement however small, or something else like dropping the jaw that works well for a restricted range but does not allow playing over extended changes of range.

[Doug Elliott]

Tim has a pretty good explanation of the difference.
No shift AND no pivot? I have never seen that.

[mbtrombone]

So after reading the explanation above no shifts is definitely something my teachers all advised as this would slow down faster flexibility based passages. As far as pivot I am unsure right now. I don’t think I do, but it is too late for me to try some scales and arpeggios to see what is my norm. To be continued…

[harrisonreed]

Shift = bad (probably too small of a rim ID), 2D movement of the mouthpiece across the lips.

Pivot = what everyone is trying to figure out how to get better at until they either quit or die, but they swear they don't do and is somehow bad (because: trumpet players), and in the worst case try to convince their students of the same. A 3D movement of the mouthpiece together with the lips/jaw in order to utilize different areas of the mouthpiece cup with the airstream.

[Vegasbound]

So after reading the explanation above no shifts is definitely something my teachers all advised as this would slow down faster flexibility based passages. As far as pivot I am unsure right now. I don’t think I do, but it is too late for me to try some scales and arpeggios to see what is my norm. To be continued…

Have a lesson with Doug, and then you will know exactly what you do

[timothy42b]

So after reading the explanation above no shifts is definitely something my teachers all advised as this would slow down faster flexibility based passages. As far as pivot I am unsure right now. I don’t think I do, but it is too late for me to try some scales and arpeggios to see what is my norm. To be continued…

Have a lesson with Doug, and then you will know exactly what you do

I read the material in the Reinhardt encyclopedia and probably on wilktone's site (can't remember timing exactly) and I could not figure this out for myself. I could tell my normal placement - but was that right? And I could tell that I moved for different ranges by experimenting, but both directions seemed to work.

I took a lesson with Doug and confusion vanished. (doesn't mean I could actually do it correctly, but at least I understood how it worked)

[mbtrombone]

So after much practice so far today I do pivot very slightly, but no shifts in my playing. A lesson with Doug might be in my future (after my upcoming auditions).