Scales

[Elow]

Any tips for working up scales? I’ve been practicing the same way since i’ve started playing and wondering how others work them up. I just start slow and bump tempo up a couple clicks after 3 perfect runs.

[harrisonreed]

Here's an outside the box idea for scales, regardless of what key or mode your going for:

Get a drone going and play the scale very slowly over the drone, listening for inharmonic errors in the intervals. You then bump the dinner up a half step, and play the next scale up. You will see just how crazy different the 4th of the previous scale is when it became the third of the next scale. Rather than speed, to work on the intervals.

[CalgaryTbone]

Scales can and should be worked on in varying ways to facilitate working on different issues. Slow scales are great for tuning and tone. Faster scales are great for articulation and technique. All are important. Drones and tuners are good tools especially in the slower scales, and metronomes are very helpful in fast scale work. Do some practicing without the extra tools once in a while, and just really "turn on your ears" to listen and see if you've progressed at some of those issues. I like practicing a very "comfortable" scale like B flat or F, and then playing the same pattern in B natural or F sharp. You can do this with the Arbans - just change the key signature in your mind and play the same exercise up or down a half step. Very telling - particularly for pitch, but often for articulation and clean slide technique. Be aware that slower scales call for a slide technique that stops in every position, and faster scales allow for a more gliding technique. Working on scales at varying speeds can be a good way to make sure that the slide technique that you're using fits with the speed and style that you're playing at that moment. Also, make sure that your articulation and slide are fitting together well.

I like the pattern for scales used in the Remington Warm-Ups. Of course, you should also use other patterns, but the Remington pattern is great for touching on the modes and the arpeggios as part of the scale practice.

Jim Scott

[afugate]

Scales can and should be worked on in varying ways to facilitate working on different issues. Slow scales are great for tuning and tone. Faster scales are great for articulation and technique. All are important. Drones and tuners are good tools especially in the slower scales, and metronomes are very helpful in fast scale work. Do some practicing without the extra tools once in a while, and just really "turn on your ears" to listen and see if you've progressed at some of those issues. I like practicing a very "comfortable" scale like B flat or F, and then playing the same pattern in B natural or F sharp. You can do this with the Arbans - just change the key signature in your mind and play the same exercise up or down a half step. Very telling - particularly for pitch, but often for articulation and clean slide technique. Be aware that slower scales call for a slide technique that stops in every position, and faster scales allow for a more gliding technique. Working on scales at varying speeds can be a good way to make sure that the slide technique that you're using fits with the speed and style that you're playing at that moment. Also, make sure that your articulation and slide are fitting together well.

I like the pattern for scales used in the Remington Warm-Ups. Of course, you should also use other patterns, but the Remington pattern is great for touching on the modes and the arpeggios as part of the scale practice.

Jim Scott

Great info in this post!

--Andy in OKC

[CalgaryTbone]

Thanks!

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Scales.....this is a topic that could get very lengthy. In addition to skill, there is so much music theory involved. There are not just the major and 3 types of minor scales, there are numerous modes to be practiced.... all of which are interconnected and require an understanding of the music theory. That can wait for another day....

There are two scale-related skills that, once achieved at a certain mastery level, greatly enhance every aspect of trombone playing. These are skills that I try to teach all of my students that I think are moving into the upper intermediate/lower level advanced skills:

1. The ability to play all 12 major scales and all 12 harmonic minor scales in rapid sixteenth notes in two octaves. No stopping on the first step of the scale, no changing of pulse. It may take a few years to achieve this, but it certainly gives the player a strong command of the instrument. The proper alternate positions and trigger alternates should be used.

2. Tetrads (groups of four notes) in all tonalities for all pitches up and down the entire register of the instrument. I teach my students to practice these patterns REPEATEDLY AND RAPIDLY DOWN AND UP starting on every chromatic pitch. It basically exposes the student to almost any combination of four linear pitches that will show up in music.

Here is the complete tetrad sequence based on the pitch C:

C Major C, B, A, G (down and up rapidly, over and over again)
C modal (Dorian/MixoLydian) C, B-flat, A, G (down and up rapidly, over and over again)
C minor C, B-flat, A-flat, G (ditto)
C harmonic C, B, A-flat, G (ditto)
C melodic C, B-flat, A-flat, G, A-nat, B-nat (repeat rapidly)
C whole tone C, B-flat, A-flat, G-flat (down and up rapidly, over and over again)

After completing this set, the player would either move up or down one chromatic step and do the entire set of tetrads based on the next pitch, and so on and so on. This exercise requires a certain level of music theory awareness. It is a tremendous exercise for trigger dexterity in the lower register and a great chop builder in the upper register. Possibly the greatest benefit is the musician's ability to sight read rapid passages with automation because the musician will subconsciously recognize that the notes are a familiar tetrad.

[momentum]

Adding to the above:

(1) Make sure you are playing them from memory, not reading off a page.

(2) For jazz learn all the modes of melodic minor.

(3) Do them in broken thirds, fourths, fifths, etc.

(4) Practice as slow as necessary, accuracy/consistency is more important than speed.

(5) Of course increase the tempo as you master them.

(6) Be able to play any random scale at any random time, don't get attached to practicing them only in the order of the circle of fifths or chromatic scale.

And then to dissent, I actually don't think scales against a drone are a particularly great way work on intonation. Not that's it's worthless, I just thing there are better ways to do it, and generally the benefit of scale work is more about internalizing all of the patterns and how they lie across the horn.

[Basbasun]

Oh there is so many ways to practice scales! And so many scales to practice! If limiting us to major and minor, as so far the very good advices above do. there are different ways to practis the scales in all degrees, one way is like playing C major in eights from low C to high C and down form D to low D up from low E to high E down from high F to low F up G to G down A to A up B to B stop at C rest and do it backwards. Anothe day start at high C down to C up fro D to D and so on.
(The the same with the minor. And pentatonic, Dimished. Whole tone. Best is to start with with just one new way at the time.)
Practice scale VERY SLOW is a very good thing for trombone players. Elow how do you practice scales?

[SimmonsTrombone]

I was taught to start on a middling low tonic, for instance second line Bb, play down to the lowest non-pedal note in the scale I could play, up to the highest scale note achievable, back down to the lowest, and back up to the original note.

[baileyman]

For jazz, do all this but work out suitable chromatic approaches that match the structure of the horn. Start off the strong pulse. Add flourishes to the beginning and end. Apply hip rhythms. Alternate patterns, rhythms, tonguings. Etc. Internalization also includes reducing the inhibition to play something totally new, so make new stuff happen.

[timothy42b]

Scales.....this is a topic that could get very lengthy. In addition to skill, there is so much music theory involved. There are not just the major and 3 types of minor scales, there are numerous modes to be practiced.... all of which are interconnected and require an understanding of the music theory. That can wait for another day....

There are two scale-related skills that, once achieved at a certain mastery level, greatly enhance every aspect of trombone playing. These are skills that I try to teach all of my students that I think are moving into the upper intermediate/lower level advanced skills:

1. The ability to play all 12 major scales and all 12 harmonic minor scales in rapid sixteenth notes in two octaves. No stopping on the first step of the scale, no changing of pulse. It may take a few years to achieve this, but it certainly gives the player a strong command of the instrument. The proper alternate positions and trigger alternates should be used.

2. Tetrads (groups of four notes) in all tonalities for all pitches up and down the entire register of the instrument. I teach my students to practice these patterns REPEATEDLY AND RAPIDLY DOWN AND UP starting on every chromatic pitch. It basically exposes the student to almost any combination of four linear pitches that will show up in music.

Here is the complete tetrad sequence based on the pitch C:

C Major C, B, A, G (down and up rapidly, over and over again)
C modal (Dorian/MixoLydian) C, B-flat, A, G (down and up rapidly, over and over again)
C minor C, B-flat, A-flat, G (ditto)
C harmonic C, B, A-flat, G (ditto)
C melodic C, B-flat, A-flat, G, A-nat, B-nat (repeat rapidly)
C whole tone C, B-flat, A-flat, G-flat (down and up rapidly, over and over again)

After completing this set, the player would either move up or down one chromatic step and do the entire set of tetrads based on the next pitch, and so on and so on. This exercise requires a certain level of music theory awareness. It is a tremendous exercise for trigger dexterity in the lower register and a great chop builder in the upper register. Possibly the greatest benefit is the musician's ability to sight read rapid passages with automation because the musician will subconsciously recognize that the notes are a familiar tetrad.

Should be stickied.

[Wilktone]

(1) Make sure you are playing them from memory, not reading off a page.

This is good advice, but to offer another approach, *reading* the scales as you play them will help you learn the visual patterns and improve your sight reading. I encourage you to do some of both.

As soon as you can, I also suggest you try practicing the associated chord arpeggio along with the scale while you're practicing, particularly if you're interested in improvisation.

The drone idea is good, it really helps you key in on intonation. I like to practice my scales/chord arpeggios along with a Band-in-a-Box accompaniment too. Doing so helps you learn the sounds of the different notes of the scales and chord tones in relationship to the underlying harmony and make the connection between the music theory and the ear training.

Dave

[robcat2075]

Drones...

I've found it interesting to put the drone on any scale step, not just the tonic, and play the scale in tune to it.

[jthomas105]

Although this book is titled for ensemble drill it will work for individual practice also.

https://www.amazon.com/Fussell-Exercise ... 0769266517

It has many of the things others have mentioned about playing different forms/patterns of scales/intervals in it to let you see it before you memorize these patterns.

[Savio]

Aah, there is so much good and learning above. Good for beginners to more old players that feels like a beginner like me. This hole tread is inspiration!

If I can add something it would be to add musicality in to scales. Do it with a musical feel. I don't know how because then we have to be creative and use our feel of music.

I read one story about a famous piano player long time ago. He practiced a lot of scales. Like us! But the wife got tired of the scales and one night when he sleeps she played one scale C major but stop on the B. Just to tease him. He slept bad and had nightmare. Then he go up still sleeping and played the C. And slept peaceful.

Just a story but scales are musical and obvious powerful!

[hyperbolica]

Any tips for working up scales? I’ve been practicing the same way since i’ve started playing and wondering how others work them up. I just start slow and bump tempo up a couple clicks after 3 perfect runs.

straight up and down, then by 3rds, by 4ths by 5ths, octaves, and so on. Do them in alternate positions - don't use 1st, then don't use 1st or 2nd, and so on. Don't skip the sharp keys. Do them like the Arbans interval exercises, where you drone repeat the 5th every other note, make sure to do all the majors and minors, blues scales, pentatonic scales, and then mess with modes - keep the first and last notes the same but change the key signature. Use them to work on range. Slur two tongue two, double tongue, triple tongue...There's no end of fun you can have with scales. Do it all from memory until its muscle memory, not from a book.

[robcat2075]

If I can add something it would be to add musicality in to scales. Do it with a musical feel.

I recall once reading that, every morning, 19th Century piano virtuoso Sigismund Thalberg devoted two hours to playing scales. Then he devoted two more hours to playing scales... with expression.

[harrisonreed]

If I can add something it would be to add musicality in to scales. Do it with a musical feel.

I recall once reading that, every morning, 19th Century piano virtuoso Sigismund Thalberg devoted two hours to playing scales. Then he devoted two more hours to playing scales... with expression.

That's a copout on his part. Almost all music can be broken down into sections of a scale, so we could just say "play your music with expression and you're also practicing the scales"

[Crazy4Tbone86]

"I recall once reading that, every morning, 19th Century piano virtuoso Sigismund Thalberg devoted two hours to playing scales. Then he devoted two more hours to playing scales... with expression."


So Thalberg doodled around for two hours before he got down to the real practicing. Sounds like my routine!

[timothy42b]

If I can add something it would be to add musicality in to scales. Do it with a musical feel.

I recall once reading that, every morning, 19th Century piano virtuoso Sigismund Thalberg devoted two hours to playing scales. Then he devoted two more hours to playing scales... with expression.

I don't know if he was being serious or not, but I heard Dave Taylor say he played an hour of scales to start the day, while watching soap operas.

[robcat2075]

I don't know if he was being serious or not, but I heard Dave Taylor say he played an hour of scales to start the day, while watching soap operas.

Itzhak Perlman said he did that also.

Now there are hardly any soap operas. I wonder how they stay in shape?

[Elow]

Brian Hecht’s routine includes like a hour long scale warmup in all the keys. I played it once in one key and it drained me

[spencercarran]

I don't know if he was being serious or not, but I heard Dave Taylor say he played an hour of scales to start the day, while watching soap operas.

Itzhak Perlman said he did that also.

Now there are hardly any soap operas. I wonder how they stay in shape?

Peter Norton told me that he did his long tone routines while watching baseball.

[elmsandr]

One thing that I often still do, just to continue to build some muscle memory is running through the 'pattern scales' that I think comes out of the Marsteller book (I don't honestly remember as it has been decades since I looked at a printed version of the exercise). Essentially, pick a tempo and go through a major scale up and down (one octave), then move to same scale, starting on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. Keep going until you have essentially done three octaves of the major scale starting on every pitch. I always start with a C scale. Then I go to F or G and go all the way around the circle of fifths until I am back to home. Should probably mix it up a bit and start on random keys, but I'm too lazy for that. I need to play them all and my point is that they should all sound the same, for all keys starting on any random note of the scale. All I want to be thinking of is the interval relationships and what the pattern sounds like for each starting note. I should probably play a drone along with them, but I don't. Some days I work on different articulations, but by that I usually do them ALL in the same articulation for the day as I don't want to create any other bad habits while maintaining some basic fundamentals. When I first did this, it was a little painful... but after a couple of weeks? The only question should be what tempo do you want to challenge yourself with? There are challenges available to both slow and fast, need to be accurate and in tune for both.

Cheers,
Andy