Is it allowed to play like this?

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Savio
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Is it allowed to play like this?

Post by Savio » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:43 pm

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnFhNyFesmcYhow0kwj ... Q?e=kZSjHf

Its a Bordogni etude, and I know both tempo and timing is way off. I tried to play it with metronome but it felt very uncomfortable. Is my playing too free or should I try to make it more in time?
Also this is played on a Jinbao trombone wich is unfamiliar, so intonation is.....well... not perfect... :biggrin:

Leif
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Burgerbob
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Re: Is it allowed to play like this?

Post by Burgerbob » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:33 pm

There are some moments I like. But I personally prefer this etude with a bit more momentum.

Also, most of the triplets have been changed to eighth note and two sixteenths. I think this can be a tool to bring out every once in a while, but not quite so often.

Good sounds though!
hyperbolica
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Re: Is it allowed to play like this?

Post by hyperbolica » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:56 pm

Is it allowed? Uh, yes, why not? You got a nice sound. I think the rubato is fine, but the overall tempo is slower than it needs to be. Playing slow on bass can be a good way to develop air and phrasing, but I think this one sounds better with more flow.
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jbeatenbough
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Re: Is it allowed to play like this?

Post by jbeatenbough » Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:22 pm

Leif, I enjoyed it very much! Thanks for sharing... and yes, I give you permission to play like that (for what my 2 cents is worth)
John

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Savio
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Re: Is it allowed to play like this?

Post by Savio » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:57 am

Thanks for feedback! Yes, I listen it now and see the triplets are way out. Personally I think it's to much out of time and to little flow or directions. Should maybe be a middle thing between this and more metronomic. It's too much one and one phrase without connection. Have to try a little more. One another problem is even if I played all this etudes a lot, I have never planned how to phrase or play them.

Leif
timothy42b
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Re: Is it allowed to play like this?

Post by timothy42b » Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:41 am

Gorgeous tone. Wow. I always enjoy what you share.

Trombone players sometimes perform the Bach Cello suites in public, and some of us trombone players appreciate them; I've yet to meet a nontrombone player who thinks they sound good on trombone.

I have not heard any trombone version of the suites (and there are some excellent ones out there) that would be appreciated by a general audience as much as how you did this Bordogni.
Elow
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Re: Is it allowed to play like this?

Post by Elow » Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:58 am

timothy42b wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:41 am


Trombone players sometimes perform the Bach Cello suites in public, and some of us trombone players appreciate them; I've yet to meet a nontrombone player who thinks they sound good on trombone.
My mom would disagree
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Re: Is it allowed to play like this?

Post by hyperbolica » Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:19 am

timothy42b wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:41 am
Gorgeous tone. Wow. I always enjoy what you share.

Trombone players sometimes perform the Bach Cello suites in public, and some of us trombone players appreciate them; I've yet to meet a nontrombone player who thinks they sound good on trombone.

I have not heard any trombone version of the suites (and there are some excellent ones out there) that would be appreciated by a general audience as much as how you did this Bordogni.
I practice intervals exercises nearly daily. For 40 years. But I have never performed them, and no one has ever suggested I or anyone else I know, should perform them. Yet they are unbelievably valuable to me and to others.

I think we as trombonists can share and appreciate things between us that wouldn't impress anyone else. Euphonium, tuba, and maybe even vocalists might also appreciate Rochut/Bordogni as much as we do. Still, not sure why you'd use it as an opportunity to take a cheap rip at the Bach cello suites. Maybe they don't lie perfectly on the trombone, but it is very useful to aspire to greatness.
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robcat2075
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Re: Is it allowed to play like this?

Post by robcat2075 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:41 am

Sounds good!
It's an etude... you can do what ever tempo suits your purpose but... it is slow.

What bothered me was the way the notes just before a breathe don't just stop, they cut off as if the mic had been disconnected. They have zero tail. Some sound like you stopped them with your tongue.
>>Robert Holmén<<

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Savio
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Re: Is it allowed to play like this?

Post by Savio » Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:39 pm

timothy42b wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:41 am
Gorgeous tone. Wow. I always enjoy what you share.

Trombone players sometimes perform the Bach Cello suites in public, and some of us trombone players appreciate them; I've yet to meet a nontrombone player who thinks they sound good on trombone.

I have not heard any trombone version of the suites (and there are some excellent ones out there) that would be appreciated by a general audience as much as how you did this Bordogni.
Thanks so much!
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Savio
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Re: Is it allowed to play like this?

Post by Savio » Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:40 pm

timothy42b wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:41 am
Gorgeous tone. Wow. I always enjoy what you share.

Trombone players sometimes perform the Bach Cello suites in public, and some of us trombone players appreciate them; I've yet to meet a nontrombone player who thinks they sound good on trombone.

I have not heard any trombone version of the suites (and there are some excellent ones out there) that would be appreciated by a general audience as much as how you did this Bordogni.
Thanks so much!
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Savio
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Re: Is it allowed to play like this?

Post by Savio » Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:05 pm

I think most of us react as a trombone player firstly. And I learn from it. You all points out aspects I learn from. Thanks all!
timothy42b
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Re: Is it allowed to play like this?

Post by timothy42b » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:41 pm

hyperbolica wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:19 am
Still, not sure why you'd use it as an opportunity to take a cheap rip at the Bach cello suites. Maybe they don't lie perfectly on the trombone, but it is very useful to aspire to greatness.
Everybody plays the cello suites (which were written for practice, not performance, by the way). I've heard them recorded on bassoon, sax, flute, guitar, tuba, and many times on trombone.

My opinion remains that they sound good on cello. I'm sure they are valuable as practice material on any known instrument, but they aren't all that listenable.
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robcat2075
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Re: Is it allowed to play like this?

Post by robcat2075 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:10 am

Here is the Bordogni piano accompaniment for that Etude in MuseScore format you can use as a play-along if you wish.

You can transpose it to any key and tempo.
50Voc_03_v4.zip
(46.27 KiB) Downloaded 15 times
>>Robert Holmén<<

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imsevimse
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Re: Is it allowed to play like this?

Post by imsevimse » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:36 am

Okey, I give my thoughts. I have played that etude but not as many times as to remember the sheet and it was years ago.

To me it sounds as you play the tune with comfort, and you play it very rubato, very slow, with a good sound, and good articulation. If there are triplets or not does not bother me when I listen without knowing the sheets. As long as you are conscious about what you are doing and why you are doing it I consider it to be interpretation. If this is the way you feel about the piece and if it is your preffered version then keep it and don't change if you do not believe.

The few things I heard (only listened once) that can improve the interpretation:

Here and there the phrase ends and the music rests. There you are excellent and take your time and start the next flow as expected, but here and there the phrase ends and allows for a breath but continues. Here you loose the tension. You need to be quicker and connect those phrases. Imagine a monologue where those places is where a comma is placed, you can breath but you need to connect and go on. It sounds as if you instead add a dot. What comes after a dot at that place will sound a bit off the time. It's a kind of a bad timing problem. If somebody tells a joke you may laugh, but if you wait too long the moment is gone.

You took a breath just before the end note too (I think) near the end anywhare and that interrupted the flow. Unfortunately that kind of mistake near the end stays. If you had done that in the middle I might have forgotten about it. Plan the breaths.

I do not mind the slow tempo, but it makes it a lot harder to play.

To sum: You play at a very high level, also this was very good playing, like everything you share it is very musical.

/Tom
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Savio
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Re: Is it allowed to play like this?

Post by Savio » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:45 pm

Thanks Tom! I learn from you. I never plan anything I play like I did when studying. So it bring up some breathing and phrases going shit. Maybe I should start doing it again.... I notice I never play a piece the same way twice. Bye the way that Chinese horn wasnt that bad but you know..... Tom, if you want it in your big collection you can get it free. Got a Yamaha 620 double trigger some days ago, so nice. So now I have both good Conn single triggers and this new 620g. Wonderful days here now except the covid and the cold weather.

Leif
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