Going back to my 62h

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tim
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Going back to my 62h

Post by tim » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:02 pm

Well, this is interesting to me (maybe only me) but I've gone back to my 62h after years of playing my 1062fd. First thing I noticed is if I use the same air pressure the horn fights me. I'm slowly learning to use a gentler air flow and then the horn is awesome. I had forgotten how good Larry was setting up horns to fit individuals. So it's a lot of arpeggios, lip slurs and long tones. Anyone else have that revelation? :amazed:
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by imsevimse » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:34 pm

tim wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:02 pm
Well, this is interesting to me (maybe only me) but I've gone back to my 62h after years of playing my 1062fd. First thing I noticed is if I use the same air pressure the horn fights me. I'm slowly learning to use a gentler air flow and then the horn is awesome. I had forgotten how good Larry was setting up horns to fit individuals. So it's a lot of arpeggios, lip slurs and long tones. Anyone else have that revelation? :amazed:
I like my Conn 62h too. I've never heard of a1062fd. What brand is that?

/Tkm
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by Burgerbob » Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:42 pm

imsevimse wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:34 pm


I like my Conn 62h too. I've never heard of a1062fd. What brand is that?

/Tkm
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by Kbiggs » Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:50 pm

Every horn is different, and it takes a while to learn how to play any particular horn. You're re-acclimatizing yourself. A Conn will feel/sound/blow very different compared to a Getzen, compared to a Bach, etc. You'll get there. Just pay attention to the fundamentals, and listen for a good end result.
I have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened.
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by GabrielRice » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:59 pm

There's a lot to be said for learning how to use resistance to help.
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by Bach5G » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:41 pm

Nice dilemma to have.
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tim
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by tim » Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:39 pm

Everything is going well on the horn but you've got me interested on this subject. Any tips?
GabrielRice wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:59 pm
There's a lot to be said for learning how to use resistance to help.
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by harrisonreed » Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:53 pm

tim wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:39 pm
GabrielRice wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:59 pm
There's a lot to be said for learning how to use resistance to help.
Everything is going well on the horn but you've got me interested on this subject. Any tips?
In my mind, your's is the million dollar question.
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by GabrielRice » Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:52 pm

tim wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:02 pm
I'm slowly learning to use a gentler air flow and then the horn is awesome.
You've got it. You don't have to work so hard, especially to start things.
Gabriel Langfur Rice

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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by FOSSIL » Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:54 pm

Resistance is not necessarily a bad thing.... depends where it is and what the player can tolerate. If you play a big, open throat mouthpiece and open leadpipe, you will really notice how stuffy traditional rotors are compared to the open trombone... but if you have more resistance at the face end, you feel less difference in blow with rotors....but do you feel okay with resistance ? Are free blowing rotors essential to your approach ? resistance can be built in almost anywhere on a trombone and will feel different depending on where it is.

Chris
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by Burgerbob » Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:55 pm

:clever:
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by WGWTR180 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:52 am

FOSSIL wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:54 pm
Resistance is not necessarily a bad thing.... depends where it is and what the player can tolerate. If you play a big, open throat mouthpiece and open leadpipe, you will really notice how stuffy traditional rotors are compared to the open trombone... but if you have more resistance at the face end, you feel less difference in blow with rotors....but do you feel okay with resistance ? Are free blowing rotors essential to your approach ? resistance can be built in almost anywhere on a trombone and will feel different depending on where it is.

Chris
This!
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tim
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by tim » Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:12 am

I'm ok with it, I actually like it. I was playing this horn long ago but thought i needed to go to bigger equipment. I now realize I was wrong. It has the stock rotors on it, converted to open wrap ala MInick.
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by FOSSIL » Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:30 am

Is this an Elkhart 62H or a modern 62H ?

Chris
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by tim » Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:44 am

Elkhart
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by FOSSIL » Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:24 pm

That is SO much more classy than a 1062....different level. The 1062 punches above it's weight for sure...I tested one for a student by playing it in my orchestra and it sounded very good, but feel was sorta 'second tier' if you know what I mean. Bigger than the 62H ? not in most places...just the tuning slide and bell throat. The Conn inner slide tube and valve tube is bigger.

Chris
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by Burgerbob » Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:30 pm

1062 also comes with a dual bore slide, which will make it seem bigger from some aspects.

Of those two, I'd definitely choose the Conn 10/10 times.
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tim
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by tim » Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:57 pm

I never could get comfy on the 1062. The Conn has plenty of punch when I get the air right. I'm getting the feel of it again.working on Colin's lip flexibilities to help find the sweet spot.
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by FOSSIL » Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:35 am

tim wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:57 pm
I never could get comfy on the 1062. The Conn has plenty of punch when I get the air right. I'm getting the feel of it again.working on Colin's lip flexibilities to help find the sweet spot.
These old Conns force you to think about how you play....in a good way. I think many modern trombones are just too easy, covering sloppy technique up until it becomes a real problem.

Chris
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by EdwardSolomon » Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:01 am

FOSSIL wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:35 am
These old Conns force you to think about how you play....in a good way. I think many modern trombones are just too easy, covering sloppy technique up until it becomes a real problem.

Chris
I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. After I acquired a 70H in 2004, I sold the Edwards I was playing because of these very reasons. Even the Rath that I owned to replace the Edwards didn't measure up to the 62H I purchased from Noah Gladstone precisely because modern trombones do exactly what Chris says: they're too forgiving, so if you're keen to keep your technique at the highest level, this is something to be acutely aware of. I know switching to the 70H changed my playing completely - for the better. The 62H just felt like a natural extension of that technique.
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by GabrielRice » Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:39 am

FOSSIL wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:35 am
These old Conns force you to think about how you play....in a good way. I think many modern trombones are just too easy, covering sloppy technique up until it becomes a real problem.

Chris
The aspect of playing I observe this in most is intonation - particularly precise slide placement. The Bach I learned to play on sounded and felt terrible when I was not playing in tune. Learning to play in tune required both relaxing and finding the center of the pitch AND putting the slide in exactly the right place.

Many modern bass trombones still feel and sound pretty good when the player is not in the center of the pitch. It's harder to know if the slide is in the right place, and it can be out of tune without sounding pinched or grating. But it's still out of tune.

With Shires I know the instrument line well enough to set it up to minimize this effect, and my personal instrument has ended up responding quite a bit like an excellent Bach. In fact, I often warm up on the single valve Bach (using false tones for low Cs and Bs), and then the Shires feels great when I pick it up. I don't know how to set up Edwards or Rath for a more clearly defined pitch center.
Gabriel Langfur Rice

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tim
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by tim » Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:50 am

I agree, I have had a tuner on my stand today trying to get more in tune. I could have been a couple of cents out either way on the Getzen and still felt open and had a good sound. I love the way the 62h makes me more aware of pitch and center of tone. Unless someone makes a horn that plays like my Conn will I need to get a new horn. My repair tech is going to be my best friend if it gets a boo-boo.
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by SwissTbone » Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:13 pm

Oooh... it's always good having a repair man asa friend!
ƒƒ---------------------------------------------------ƒƒ
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by pompatus » Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:16 pm

In comparing some of the modern horns mentioned to the 62H, I’m curious how the Kanstul 1662 fares, in regard to the discussion above.
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by EdwardSolomon » Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:24 am

pompatus wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:16 pm
In comparing some of the modern horns mentioned to the 62H, I’m curious how the Kanstul 1662 fares, in regard to the discussion above.
I have had the opportunity to compare in a rehearsal of the Lutosławski Concerto for Orchestra.

The Kanstul 1662 appears to be based on the Larry Minick custom 62H, an example of which I own. The Kanstul is more frequently compared with the Rath R9DST, with which it competes as a clone of the old 62H. However, the similarities between the Kanstul and the Conn are few, since it is a modern instrument and suffers from the same tendencies as the Rath, to which it is a slighter counterpart.

The thing about modern trombones is that they are built for ease of response, which means that as close as they may get to the older models, they still don't match them exactly because they're more responsive.

Even with the same performer, same mouthpiece, the sound is not the same.

I know.

I tried.
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by FOSSIL » Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:51 am

The 1662 is a lighter more commercial style horn. I heard Mike Suter play a very early one and sound amazing...and he sounded just as good on his own Kanstul built model. Not an instrument for the orchestra though.
We shouldn't be quite so hard on modern instruments, which is what the majority of people use. There are wonderful instruments being made today and the customizable makes allow for a wide range of feels and sounds. There are people out there that appreciate the sound and feel of the classic Conns (and Bachs and Holtons etc) and feel that the modern trombone world is getting it wrong....same in Germany 50-60 years ago with the Kruspes..... and boy did they sound wonderful in the right hands. The old German instruments require even more correctness of approach.
Space for everyone.

Chris
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by Basbasun » Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:59 am

When I decided that my time as ochestra bass trombonist was ended I sold my Bach 50B, a wonderful instrument, very good orchestra horn. Now The kanstul 1662 is what I play, a wonderful bigband horn, lighter and works so good together with small and medium horns It is no symphony orchestra or wind band horn. But now I have a fanstastic horn that is the best I can get today. Gerdt.
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by bassboy » Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:08 am

EdwardSolomon wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:01 am
FOSSIL wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:35 am
These old Conns force you to think about how you play....in a good way. I think many modern trombones are just too easy, covering sloppy technique up until it becomes a real problem.

Chris
I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. After I acquired a 70H in 2004, I sold the Edwards I was playing because of these very reasons. Even the Rath that I owned to replace the Edwards didn't measure up to the 62H I purchased from Noah Gladstone precisely because modern trombones do exactly what Chris says: they're too forgiving, so if you're keen to keep your technique at the highest level, this is something to be acutely aware of. I know switching to the 70H changed my playing completely - for the better. The 62H just felt like a natural extension of that technique.
Anybody have any insight on how the newer/newest iteration of the 62H/62HI compare to some of the older models?
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by Savio » Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:27 am

Tim, congratulation with the Conn, it will give you lot of joy! Make some good sounds!

Leif
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by hyperbolica » Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:48 am

I have a 1662i, the inline version. I've played some Kanstuls that were scary light and laser bright, but my 1662i is kind of velvety while still being pretty light for a bass. It doesn't have the bark of some of the older horns. Being an old Conn tenor player, I think I would have had an easier time on an old Conn, Holton, or Bach, as it has taken me several years to really get comfortable with this 1662i, and I've only really developed instincts for it in chamber music. People who listen really like the sound, even though my feel behind the bell hasn't been totally satisfactory. The comments I get with this horn that I don't get with others is the reason I've kept it while other basses have come and gone.
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by imsevimse » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:25 am

FOSSIL wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:51 am
The 1662 is a lighter more commercial style horn. I heard Mike Suter play a very early one and sound amazing...and he sounded just as good on his own Kanstul built model. Not an instrument for the orchestra though.
We shouldn't be quite so hard on modern instruments, which is what the majority of people use. There are wonderful instruments being made today and the customizable makes allow for a wide range of feels and sounds. There are people out there that appreciate the sound and feel of the classic Conns (and Bachs and Holtons etc) and feel that the modern trombone world is getting it wrong....same in Germany 50-60 years ago with the Kruspes..... and boy did they sound wonderful in the right hands. The old German instruments require even more correctness of approach.
Space for everyone.

Chris
I had a cruiser gig about two years ago (remember I had once a gig) where I played my Kanstul 1662 dependant horn. I had no clue a professional tuba player I know was in the audience. He came back stage to complement my playing in the intermission between sets. He said he had heard my part clear the whole set. In fact he said my notes "sat in the wall across the room". I was happy to hear that, but then he said it was a good commercial sound but not a sound that would fit an orchestra. Well, then I did not know what to think, but I guess that was the best compliment I could possibly get and he was very positive. It was a big band dance/show/concert gig so I guess my sound fit, It was not a classical gig. One thing with the 1662 is it is difficult to know how loud you are playing. Where you sit the sound is not very loud but people in front and next you hear it both loud and clear, some horns are just the opposite. I often have to ask the third player if I'm giving enough support. They say I am projecting but to me it does not sound loud at all behind the bell when I'm on this horn. I also have a Conn 62h and it is not the same.

The 62h is what I think of as a more classical orchestral bass trombone sound.
Basbasun wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:59 am
When I decided that my time as ochestra bass trombonist was ended I sold my Bach 50B, a wonderful instrument, very good orchestra horn. Now The kanstul 1662 is what I play, a wonderful bigband horn, lighter and works so good together with small and medium horns It is no symphony orchestra or wind band horn. But now I have a fanstastic horn that is the best I can get today. Gerdt.
I'm the one who bought the 50B from you and it is truly a agreat horn. Too bad I have no classical gigs on bass trombone. I want to hear the Gerdt bass trombone :good:

To the OP:
My Conn 62h is also great. Choose that one if you want that beautiful sound. I have never tried a Getzen. My conclusion concerning the Kanstul 1662 is it is a good commercial big band/pop/rock bass trombone.

/Tom
My profile on facebook with new videos from concerts: https://www.facebook.com/tomas.hillerbrant

My webbpage: https://sites.google.com/site/brazzmusic

"Do your best and then do better" ttf_watermailonman
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tim
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by tim » Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:13 pm

dang it, I LOVE this horn, pardon my gushing!!
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by eliecapera » Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:33 pm

FOSSIL wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:24 pm
The Conn inner slide tube and valve tube is bigger.
Chris
Is that why the new leadpipes (press fit) don't fit properly in my 60H slide?
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Re: Going back to my 62h

Post by FOSSIL » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:34 pm

Some pipes will be loose...Edwards tend to be loose....there's a few others too. Makers do vary, even if their slide specs are the same ..... nothing's simple.

Chris
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