TromboneChat

Hello everybody.

Some know how to practice this book? This book is very big or large and I will like to practice it with the most important exercises. Maybe it’s suppose to practice all the exercises but maybe. I have the Alessi version.

Thanks for your advice!!!

There should be an introduction explaining how the book is intended to be used, if I recall. It has a lot of exercises and sections, which all can be worked on at the same time.

A book that I really like is the Bolvin Arban manual:

https://bolvinmusic.com/product/arban-manual/

It's for trumpet, but easy to adapt it to any of the other books.

1. look at the date (e.g. 26th)

2. Play every exercise out of a portion of the book (i usually do the first 3 sections) that ends in that number (e.g. 6, 16, 26, 36, 6, 16, 26, 36, etc)

3. don't do this every 10 days like I have the last month!

There are 8 sections.

You do one page of each for a week and then move on. In 30 odd weeks you've gone through it. There's a sheet somewhere with the page numbers by a trumpet player, I'll see if I can find it.

Here is a pretty good approach:
http://www.bbtrumpet.com/how-to-practic ... hlossberg/

For extra credit, use a trumpet book (or the public domain IMSLP). Go through the first time reading as Bb treble. Second time as alto, third time mezzo soprano. That will take about a year and a half and you'll have chops of steel.

Here's something I wrote about how I use the first two sections of the book: http://gabelangfur.blogspot.com/2011/09 ... sharp.html

And here's one written by the great LA trombonist Alex Iles: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4wi6nph2n8bl4 ... htq2b6XqgU


More recently, I've decided to play through the whole book over a period of about 3 months. As Aidan suggests above, I'm playing the ones from each section that correspond to the date. I started on August 1st, and I'm a little behind, so today I need to do 37s and 38s. I play them as is and down an octave.

I hope this isn't too advanced of a question for here, but I wonder what speeds some of you guys are achieving (cleanly) in the Fantasy Variations. I can't imagine a trombone being capable of the speeds I hear trumpet-players achieving on YouTube.

One thing I would suggest is to play some of the exercises in other keys. It's very easy to take an exercise in B flat, and just imagine that the key signature is B natural instead. Arbans is a little too "flat key oriented" so practicing some of your technical exercises in sharp keys will make you more comfortable in those keys, and will help your intonation as well.

I also like the Trumpet book for changing clefs, but since you already have a Trombone version of the book, start with that.

Jim Scott

CalgaryTbone wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:16 am One thing I would suggest is to play some of the exercises in other keys.
Jim Scott

That was one of the complaints of that trumpet teacher I linked to.

His other complaint was the lack of any high range.

He solved both by rewriting the PD version from IMSLP in many more keys. He calls it New Arbans, and it's 965 pages, available only in PDF. Some years back he did a giveaway of a free download and it may still be out there somewhere. It's what I use if I play out of Arbans, which I should do more but don't.

Sounds good. I had to go look for this. I love free stuff.

Here it is: http://www.mallstore.biz/books/NewArban.pdf

ArbanRubank wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:43 am I hope this isn't too advanced of a question for here, but I wonder what speeds some of you guys are achieving (cleanly) in the Fantasy Variations. I can't imagine a trombone being capable of the speeds I hear trumpet-players achieving on YouTube.

I didn't think there was anyone left around here who was knowledgeable about these pieces.

For any student who happens upon this thread, Alessi & Bowman have some suggested speeds. Where they don't, we should just use our own judgement & instructor's advice, based upon those that are marked and the suggested tempo markings (which are always relative to time signature & mood) . There are mp3s available for accompaniment. The speed on them can be dialed down to suit, without changing the pitch. But the important thing to keep in mind is that we should strive for cleanliness and musicality, first & foremost. Listen to the trumpets perform them on YouTube, but disregard their speed. Those guys are very talented pros and trumpets are capable of greater speed than a trombone.

Good luck!

timothy42b wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:19 am

CalgaryTbone wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:16 am One thing I would suggest is to play some of the exercises in other keys.
Jim Scott

That was one of the complaints of that trumpet teacher I linked to.

His other complaint was the lack of any high range.

He solved both by rewriting the PD version from IMSLP in many more keys. He calls it New Arbans, and it's 965 pages, available only in PDF. Some years back he did a giveaway of a free download and it may still be out there somewhere. It's what I use if I play out of Arbans, which I should do more but don't.

You can also solve the range problem by using clefs as a transposition method (works better w/the Trumpet book). When I was a student, we had to play most of the exercises in Tenor clef (B flat treble) in 2 keys, and Alto clef also in two keys. Occasionally, Bass clef for low range as well. If you're playing an exercise from the Trumpet book that is printed in the key of C, starting on 3rd space C - thinking of it as Tenor clef, the key and first note becomes B flat (or B natural). In Alto clef, it becomes D or D flat, and in Bass clef, it's a E flat or E natural. By doing the same exercises in different keys and ranges, you also help make your sound more consistent in different registers, and help your intonation (the pitch should sound as good in B natural as it does in B flat, etc.).

You can obviously add more clefs/keys, but this covered the clefs that a Tenor trombonist uses generally, and all of the keys once you applied this to the majority of the book. If I was a Bass trombonist, I'd probably add a few more clef changes like Tenor down an octave, and Bass down an octave as well. No reason not to do some of that on Tenor trombone if you want a low range workout.

As far as tempos on the Characteristic Studies, etc. - just find a tempo that you can play it at. Slow and good is better than fast and sloppy. If you can play it at a slow tempo, with time you can get at least closer to a trumpet tempo - maybe even up to their tempo. I was never really worried about playing them that fast, but determination and time spent with careful practice will determine your best speed if that's the goal.

Jim Scott

some of the fantasy variations are pretty approachable. i think i worked the triple tongue variation of brilliant fantasy to about quarter at 120 or so earlier this summer for fun. it's my belief that if the piece lies well enough on the slide we can play as just about as fast as trumpets.

as to how to work on the Arban's book, I took the summer before i started undergrad and just played the whole book top to bottom. averaged about 10-15 pages a day at some points. had no teacher though, so i didn't know any better... nowadays i just open up the book about once a month to three or four random exercises and work on "perfect sight reading" which... is never really perfect of course.

Sometime ago I watched an Italian trombone player practice the arban. He did make some variation with different articulation and tempo on each exercise. It was interesting to watch, and seems more fun and challenging. Don't remember his name but wonder if it was something with trombone doctor. Anyway it was interesting.

Leif

Savio wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:59 pm Sometime ago I watched an Italian trombone player practice the arban. He did make some variation with different articulation and tempo on each exercise. It was interesting to watch, and seems more fun and challenging. Don't remember his name but wonder if it was something with trombone doctor. Anyway it was interesting.

Leif

This?
https://youtu.be/z8kjK1AwKd8

SwissTbone wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:11 am

Savio wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:59 pm Sometime ago I watched an Italian trombone player practice the arban. He did make some variation with different articulation and tempo on each exercise. It was interesting to watch, and seems more fun and challenging. Don't remember his name but wonder if it was something with trombone doctor. Anyway it was interesting.

Leif

This?
https://youtu.be/z8kjK1AwKd8

Yes, thats the one, he have lots of good ideas! Thanks

It may be a good goal to play as cleanly and quickly as a world-class trumpet master, but realistically, it is only attainable by a gifted few of us. That's not intended to be demeaning. It's intended to be down-to-earth. Some of the fantasies do lay pretty well on the horn and that is where my best chance of speed can be achieved.

And then there is the #2 Fantasy... Whew! I'm not ashamed to admit that for me, parts of it are a nightmare. It starts out ok. It's the 4th section, marked "piu moderato" or "more moderate" - which tells me it is not intended to be especially quick - where I stub my tongue. Even the finale I find easier.

My own approach is to always work from the bottom up on my playing. IOW's, work on the stuff I can't do as well as I would like, rather than just playing the stuff I find easier. So I work on #2 and then treat myself to #1 or #3 as a reward for good behavior. lol. An hour of that stuff is plenty. Then on to ballads, where I try to put some of the multiple-tonguing to actual musical use. After all, if I'm not going to use it in music, then why even bother with it? I'll answer my own question. Because everything we learn how to do makes everything else we already know how to do that much better. Getting my air stream better in multiple-tonguing makes slower playing that much more musical.

ParLawGod wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:56 pm A book that I really like is the Bolvin Arban manual:

https://bolvinmusic.com/product/arban-manual/

It's for trumpet, but easy to adapt it to any of the other books.

Just want to second the motion. I have this book. Excellent.

I use the Bolivian book as a guide, too. I play bass trombone and tuba and go through the exercises on each instrument in every octave I play them.

ArbanRubank wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:43 am I hope this isn't too advanced of a question for here, but I wonder what speeds some of you guys are achieving (cleanly) in the Fantasy Variations. I can't imagine a trombone being capable of the speeds I hear trumpet-players achieving on YouTube.

Go check out Bob McChesney's carnival of Venice on youtube

Vegasbound wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:58 am

ArbanRubank wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:43 am I hope this isn't too advanced of a question for here, but I wonder what speeds some of you guys are achieving (cleanly) in the Fantasy Variations. I can't imagine a trombone being capable of the speeds I hear trumpet-players achieving on YouTube.

Go check out Bob McChesney's carnival of Venice on youtube

I know, right? That's Bob McChesney and he confirms my assertion that it takes a world-class trombone player to rival a run-of-the-mill talented trumpet player on speed. Those guys sound like little mosquitoes! I would be ecstatic if I could even sound like a dragon fly! lol.

Alessi Music Studios has a very in depth section on how Joe Alessi recommends you work out of this book. Recordings and discussion included

JakeRoberts69 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:12 pm Alessi Music Studios has a very in depth section on how Joe Alessi recommends you work out of this book. Recordings and discussion included

True. It's a subscription service, for a nominal yearly fee. I believe it would answer a lot of questions people post on this site, but much more authoritatively.

JakeRoberts69 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:12 pm Alessi Music Studios has a very in depth section on how Joe Alessi recommends you work out of this book. Recordings and discussion included

And it is half price at the moment, with new content being added, and now a monthly live Zoom call with Mr Alessi. Really a bit of bargain.