Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

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Paul184031
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Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by Paul184031 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:13 pm

I'm looking for some specific exercises to help build stamina and strength from G4 and up. I've been told that my upper register sounds like a tubist playing in the stratosphere and wasn't given much in the way of how to improve it. Thanks!!
Doug Elliott
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Re: Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by Doug Elliott » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:56 pm

Exercises would be useless without modifying how you're doing it. If that's the way you sound up there, the first thing to look at is your mouth cavity being too open to support those notes. It's not about strength, it's about form and how you do it. There's lots more about it that I teach but I would need to see you play.
FOSSIL
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Re: Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by FOSSIL » Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:33 am

On the other side of the coin, what equipment, particularly mouthpiece are you using ? How long have you been playing? How old are you ? Background helps to focus response to your request.

Chris
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Re: Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by FOSSIL » Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:38 am

I've taken a look at your profile...Schilke 60 in a Shires.... unless you are a pro putting in hours every day, that's not going to help you in the upper register. I won my job on a Schilke 60 but I would not recommend one as a mouthpiece for the developing player. No way.
I'll wait for more info before saying more.

Chris
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Re: Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by imsevimse » Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:50 am

FOSSIL wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:38 am
I've taken a look at your profile...Schilke 60 in a Shires.... unless you are a pro putting in hours every day, that's not going to help you in the upper register. I won my job on a Schilke 60 but I would not recommend one as a mouthpiece for the developing player. No way.
I'll wait for more info before saying more.

Chris
Words :good: Context is important. The problem of sound can be many different things and to play equipment you can not handle is one of them. I can not play a Schilke 60 in the upper register on a bass trombone comfortable and with a sound I like so I don't. It does not suit everyone.

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Re: Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by GabrielRice » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:44 am

Everything above. I would highly recommend an online lesson with Doug, as well as a more efficient mouthpiece. That doesn't necessarily mean smaller in ways you would notice right away - though there's a good chance it does. I can go into more detail on that if you like.

And then I'll add a thought: I would guess that the pinched sound you're getting in the high register starts lower than G above middle C. A lot of what we need to do to have a secure high register that sound good starts at least a 4th or 5th below that. You will need to work on ease and flexibility just above the bass clef staff in order for the "high register" to work for you.
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baileyman
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Re: Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by baileyman » Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:24 am

If you can freebuzz those notes easily, then you can make good comparisons of different piece contributions to the sound.
Basbasun
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Re: Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by Basbasun » Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:38 am

What is say´d above. I princip to practice low and high range the same method can be used. How did you practise your low range? One way is to play a short melody in an easy key, and to transpose it to higher keys in chromatic steps. Or to use a short fragment, maybe the first four notes of any exercises from Arban. Maybe starting from F on the staff, play slowly, move it up until you have trubble to move your air flow past the lips. Rest a few secund, start again from the same place untill you can´t get your air move. Enough for today. Practis the low range in the same way. The most imprtant is the air movement.This is one way to do it, there are more ways. I did play very big mouthpieces for some years because i wanted to be able to play loud in the low range. Still my high range was good, I played #F 5 on recordings, now I play Bach 1 1/2G and othe with the same size. I found that very loud with a big mouthpiece is not allways the way to go for me. That said, I don´t know you, maybe you can play the whole range with a good sound on a big mouth piece. I could. Still I like a little smaller for my more compact sound.
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Re: Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by FOSSIL » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:39 am

Basbasun wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:38 am
What is say´d above. I princip to practice low and high range the same method can be used. How did you practise your low range? One way is to play a short melody in an easy key, and to transpose it to higher keys in chromatic steps. Or to use a short fragment, maybe the first four notes of any exercises from Arban. Maybe starting from F on the staff, play slowly, move it up until you have trubble to move your air flow past the lips. Rest a few secund, start again from the same place untill you can´t get your air move. Enough for today. Practis the low range in the same way. The most imprtant is the air movement.This is one way to do it, there are more ways. I did play very big mouthpieces for some years because i wanted to be able to play loud in the low range. Still my high range was good, I played #F 5 on recordings, now I play Bach 1 1/2G and othe with the same size. I found that very loud with a big mouthpiece is not allways the way to go for me. That said, I don´t know you, maybe you can play the whole range with a good sound on a big mouth piece. I could. Still I like a little smaller for my more compact sound.
I would echo everything you said. Perhaps we could describe a smaller bass mouthpiece sound as more intense rather than compact because it is very different in quality rather than size ?

Chris
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Re: Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by Basbasun » Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:40 am

Yes Chris, intense is a better word for the sound. Thankyou.
Paul184031
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Re: Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by Paul184031 » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:55 pm

Sorry for the delayed response, but I actually switched to a Greg Black 1 earlier this year. I’m still playing on the shires and I’ve been playing for about 14 years now. I agree that the Schilke didn’t do anything to make it easier to play in the upper register and things have started to “lock in” a whole lot easier since I made the change.
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Re: Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by FOSSIL » Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:36 am

Paul184031 wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:55 pm
Sorry for the delayed response, but I actually switched to a Greg Black 1 earlier this year. I’m still playing on the shires and I’ve been playing for about 14 years now. I agree that the Schilke didn’t do anything to make it easier to play in the upper register and things have started to “lock in” a whole lot easier since I made the change.
So are you saying that you are fine and shouldn't have posted this topic ?

Chris
Paul184031
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Re: Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by Paul184031 » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:43 am

No not entirely, all that I’m saying is that it’s gotten slightly better since the change. I posted this discussion to find some exercises or receive some advice on how to improve my upper register since I, like many others, have an abundance of time to practice fundamentals.
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Re: Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by Vegasbound » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:52 am

Paul184031 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:43 am
No not entirely, all that I’m saying is that it’s gotten slightly better since the change. I posted this discussion to find some exercises or receive some advice on how to improve my upper register since I, like many others, have an abundance of time to practice fundamentals.
Have a Skype lesson with either Doug or Chris, they can then see and advise you on your weaknesses and chops
Paul184031
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Re: Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by Paul184031 » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:57 am

Vegasbound wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:52 am

Have a Skype lesson with either Doug or Chris, they can then see and advise you on your weaknesses and chops

I think I’ll just do that. There’s a pretty solid consensus on what I should be working on and I might as well just get some help with it. Thanks everyone!!
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Re: Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by GabrielRice » Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:49 am

I find the Greg Black 1G to be quite difficult in the high register.
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Re: Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by ArbanRubank » Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:40 am

I believe it is very common for us to have a "break point" in mpc size. Mine seems to be about the Yamaha 60 area. Anything below that and I have no problem with low to very high on bass. But at the 60 size, both range and flexibility become an issue. And the Doug Yeo size? Pretty much out of my reach.

This is not to say that a very large size would ever be out of the question for me. But it is very dependent on how much work I want to put into it. And that said, I have to question if whatever advantage that size might have for me, would warrant the dedication to it to make it work. So far for me - no, especially doubling on tenor.

Exercises: I used partials slurring from low to higher and higher and higher, as my sound on the higher notes gradually opened up. My goal was to connect, or to have my upper notes sound with the same open timbre as my lower notes. Someone else might jump in here and state that those are absolutely the wrong exercises, but they sure did work for me.
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Re: Suggested exercises to build upper register for a bass trombonist?

Post by FOSSIL » Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:39 pm

GabrielRice wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:49 am
I find the Greg Black 1G to be quite difficult in the high register.
I can understand what you are saying Gabe...that's a big mouthpiece by any standard.
There are people who can make such a mouthpiece work, of course, but they wouldn't fill a football stadium.
It's about equipment, physical efficiency and practise time.. no element is more important than another and everyone is unique on top of that.

Chris
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