Long Tones for more even practice?

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RiyazAhuja
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Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by RiyazAhuja » Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:43 pm

When I practice, I always start with the Remington long tones to warm up, but lately I've found that the long tones have only warmed up my middle register. It takes me much longer after the Remingtons to get warmed up to the high and low registers and is simply too inefficient to warm up to. Any suggestions for long tone exercises that warm up your entire range more evenly than the Remingtons do?
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BGuttman
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by BGuttman » Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:09 pm

Have you considered doing the Remington long tones in the upper or lower register? I did them down to pedals to strengthen that register.
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norbie2018
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by norbie2018 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:25 pm

Roger Bobo has a Jimmy Stamp exercise in his book re warm ups/daily routine that connects the middle to lower to upper register. That may be something that helps you out.
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by AndrewMeronek » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:15 pm

In recent years, I've had good success with playing variations on "The Pivot Stabilizer" from The Reinhardt Routines, editing/assmebled/etc. by Rich Willey and David Sheetz as the first thing I play.
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Jimprindle
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by Jimprindle » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:38 pm

The Remington long tones are excellent, but just a start. Back when I was doing 4-6 hours of practice a day (I call it my apprentice years), I was doing at least an hour of long tones, only about 8 minutes of them based on the Remington.

In the mid 70's, Phil Teele and I would get together after a rehearsal of something over a beer or coffee. The first thing he always said as we sat down (with the grin on his face brightening up his weird facial hair and actually giving his ever present black clothing an almost rainbow effect), LONG TONES, LONG TONES. He knew I got it, but it made a career for him.

I will never dismiss the importance of LONG TONES because of that impish smile he would get.

Long tone practice can be playing ballads slowly in various keys, octaves. Playing chord progressions. One of my favorite is playing diminished 7th chords, both chromatically and in inversions....really slow, with a tuner or a drone tone.
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by harrisonreed » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:14 pm

Once I started the Edwards lip slur studies, I stopped long tones and haven't looked back. They are far more efficient, and if you think you still need long tones, you can do them as part of the lip slur studies.

If you are doing an hour of long tones a day you are likely wasting your time. Ten minutes a day seems overly excessive. But "long tones" as a part of the lip slur routine is extremely productive.
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Burgerbob
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by Burgerbob » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:42 pm

I find "long tones" to be a better fundamental exercise rather than a warmup.
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by GBP » Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:19 pm

Dr. Pollard does his Remington exercises in all registers. I started doing that (seemed like a good idea) and found that it has improved my range and pitch.
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by baileyman » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:07 am

harrisonreed wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:14 pm
Once I started the Edwards lip slur studies, I stopped long tones and haven't looked back. They are far more efficient, and if you think you still need long tones, you can do them as part of the lip slur studies.

If you are doing an hour of long tones a day you are likely wasting your time. Ten minutes a day seems overly excessive. But "long tones" as a part of the lip slur routine is extremely productive.
It's easy to put a lot of time into long tones and then wonder where the time will come from to do all the other necessary things. I keep looking for dual purpose exercises that cover bases like long breaths, slurs, shifts, time, etc. all at once. And Brad's pieces look good for that.
RiyazAhuja
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by RiyazAhuja » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:43 am

I have tried to adapt the remingtons to the full range, but I have found that although it does help with the range warm ups, it is still very uneven. In a way, it’s almost like you are warming up three different parts - your high, low and mid range. I think it would be more beneficial to have an exercise that would alternate between higher and lower ranges, with larger jumps between tones as you progress.

As for the Brad Edwards book, I absolutely love it and it has been very beneficial to me in regards to control and breathing. However, at the end of the day they are still lip slurs and can not replace long tones. I still recommend to incorporate both long tones and lip slurs into your practice session.

Going off of this, how should one structure their practice, as in warm ups, technical exercises, pieces, etc? What order and how long do you usually spend on each part of your practice?
norbie2018
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by norbie2018 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:16 am

Dude, look at Jimmy Stamp/Bobo as these exercises CONNECT ALL THE REGISTERS. The Bobo book also has many other great warm-up/daily routine ideas.
Pre59
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by Pre59 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:30 am

You're going to have to find your own way, I'm sure that many players would hate my routine, I've jiggled the elements around to get what I believe is the best for me, at this moment..

I start with a flexibility and fretting routine that was worked well for a long time, and after that I tend to practice to rectify the shortcomings from the last gig, and work towards the next one. Towards the end of my practice I play a high range exercise around high flexibilities slowly speeding up to trills, and finish with long random tones around the instrument.

But, if and when my playing context changes, I'll be sure to change my practice to suit.
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by Burgerbob » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:33 pm

RiyazAhuja wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:43 am
I have tried to adapt the remingtons to the full range, but I have found that although it does help with the range warm ups, it is still very uneven. In a way, it’s almost like you are warming up three different parts - your high, low and mid range. I think it would be more beneficial to have an exercise that would alternate between higher and lower ranges, with larger jumps between tones as you progress.

As for the Brad Edwards book, I absolutely love it and it has been very beneficial to me in regards to control and breathing. However, at the end of the day they are still lip slurs and can not replace long tones. I still recommend to incorporate both long tones and lip slurs into your practice session.

Going off of this, how should one structure their practice, as in warm ups, technical exercises, pieces, etc? What order and how long do you usually spend on each part of your practice?
Like I said above... Remington long tones are not a great warmup. They are a small part of a large fundamentals routine, which is separate from a warmup. A warmup is a short (I take maybe 5-10 minutes to really warm up), and anything after that is now practice.

I think Remingtons are adequate long tone practice, but I don't find them to be especially flexible or useful. There are so, so many more exercises out there now with thought behind them that can stand in. For instance, Chris Olka (now principal tuba of the Cincinnati Symphony) Peanut Butter long tones actually connect ranges.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gYCpUFA5fk
norbie2018
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by norbie2018 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:50 pm

Burgerbob, I get that the peanut butter long tones are part of your latest practice regimen, but I think you're dismissing Remington long tones too quickly as a warm up that is effective for a whole lot of people. Sure, they don't connect the low, middle, and high registers but I don't think they're meant to. Some may choose to connect registers as part of a daily routine; I choose to start that connection in my warm up with the Bobo/Stamp exercises and continue the connection during my daily routine (aka fundamentals).
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Burgerbob
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by Burgerbob » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:10 pm

Well, it seems that OP is admitting that the Remingtons are a poor warmup himself.
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by norbie2018 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:57 pm

No, he stated it is only effective in his middle register and not in his lower or high. For him. That doesn't negate their usefulness for many other people. Did you read what I wrote? I don't use them myself but I see their usefulness for others. Why can't you?
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Burgerbob
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by Burgerbob » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:18 pm

Personally, I don't know anyone that uses them in that way at a high level.

I have a feeling many that do only do because it's what they were taught, not necessarily because they know it's effective.

I'm sure some people out there start their warmup with them and feel great.

Oddly enough, the Michael Davis 15 minute warmup I'm using now starts with them... Then again, I don't like most of the exercises in the warmup!
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by Bassbonechandler » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:45 pm

RiyazAhuja wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:43 pm
When I practice, I always start with the Remington long tones to warm up, but lately I've found that the long tones have only warmed up my middle register. It takes me much longer after the Remingtons to get warmed up to the high and low registers and is simply too inefficient to warm up to. Any suggestions for long tone exercises that warm up your entire range more evenly than the Remingtons do?
You could always do the Alessi warm-up.
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by norbie2018 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:54 pm

Burgerbob wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:18 pm
Personally, I don't know anyone that uses them in that way at a high level.

I have a feeling many that do only do because it's what they were taught, not necessarily because they know it's effective.

I'm sure some people out there start their warmup with them and feel great.

Oddly enough, the Michael Davis 15 minute warmup I'm using now starts with them... Then again, I don't like most of the exercises in the warmup!
Just because your limited circle of trombonists don't use them doesn't mean the rest of the trombone world doesn't!

And if you don't like the dog-gone warm -up, then why in God's creation are you using it?????
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Burgerbob
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by Burgerbob » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:55 pm

Mixing things up. Last warmup had too many bad habits baked in. :good:
Rusty
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by Rusty » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:09 pm

I use the Remington long tones sometimes, as part of the MD 15-min warm up. But if I could only pick one exercise I’d say slow, soft legato 2-Octave scales or something like the Edwards Lip slur melodies would be my choice.

You can also do long tones starting on a middle F (or anywhere else, and move chromatically in either direction, getting further apart.
SaigonSlide
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by SaigonSlide » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:53 pm

For me, I’ve never felt that Remingtons, especially static long tones, really warm me up other than descending down just to get a bit loose. I compare to warming up for sports. I wouldn’t think to flex my legs and hold for 10s as a good way to loosen up. I much prefer more movement and tonguing at first, moving slowly away from starting note. I do find really long tones very helpful for endurance and focus.
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by harrisonreed » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:20 am

RiyazAhuja wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:43 am
I have tried to adapt the remingtons to the full range, but I have found that although it does help with the range warm ups, it is still very uneven. In a way, it’s almost like you are warming up three different parts - your high, low and mid range. I think it would be more beneficial to have an exercise that would alternate between higher and lower ranges, with larger jumps between tones as you progress.

As for the Brad Edwards book, I absolutely love it and it has been very beneficial to me in regards to control and breathing. However, at the end of the day they are still lip slurs and can not replace long tones. I still recommend to incorporate both long tones and lip slurs into your practice session.

Going off of this, how should one structure their practice, as in warm ups, technical exercises, pieces, etc? What order and how long do you usually spend on each part of your practice?
But they can. If you play through the slurs like they are long tones ... they are long tones, but even better. Why are you hung up on long tones? They are not an effective warm up. They're really good for practicing the ability to play long stable notes...not good for much else...
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by timothy42b » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:28 am

RiyazAhuja wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:43 pm
When I practice, I always start with the Remington long tones to warm up, but lately I've found that the long tones have only warmed up my middle register.
Why start in the middle, anyway?

I start in the center of my set, which I call middle register. But what most people call middle register - basically in the staff, from Bb on top of bass clef down an octave, is really low range.
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patrickosmith
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by patrickosmith » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:49 am

I have found a similar situation in my own practice, i.e., the middle range is "right there" but the upper/lower range takes a bit of "waking up." Mind you I'm usually doing this at 5:30 am on most days.

My practice day usually begins with the Remington long tones (middle Bb partial, then F partial, then lower Bb partial). Then to "wake up" the range as it were I often go to Arban's exercise #37.
https://trumpetstudies.com/arbans/first ... ty-seven/
(Isn't the internet great!).

As written, exercise #37 is in the key of Bb and extends only to the F above the staff, so I just tack on some three-octave arpeggios going up to the high Bb (and beyond if I'm feeling it but never forcing anything) and then down to pedal Bb.

And this exercise is so easy to remember you can play it in any key without sheet music. By adding a few articulation variations according to a pattern you like, it always remains interesting and challenging.

So that's my initial routine to "wake up" the register in the morning.
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Re: Long Tones for more even practice?

Post by VJOFan » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:37 am

I grew up on the Remington studies with three of my first four teachers being Eastman grads (in British Columbia???).

It wasn't until this past summer, in looking carefully at the more extensive collection of studies and discussion in the Hunsberger Edition of the Remington system, that I finally saw that there likely was never such a rigid set of exercises as gets handed from some teachers to their students as "The Remington Warm Up".

The Hunsberger edition shows clearly that it was a conservative philosophy of playing that stressed a daily check in on all your playing systems. There are variations of every study and verbal suggestions of when and why to do them.

Taken as a whole the studies are examples of ways to get at certain aspects of playing in a controlled and focused manner.

Reading it this summer (after a couple decades of abandoning the studies) I finally felt that I could really make them my own.

So to the OP: If the long tones you are doing aren't working the way you want, the register exercises are further along in the book and you are free to adapt any of the exercises in anyway that is beneficial to your playing. The idea behind the "system" is for each player to develop the best personal approach possible through careful, daily and incremental practice.

I do also believe the studies were developed and aimed at the aspiring professional and predominantly classically oriented player. I think you need to be committed to hours of daily practice to fit in a proper use of the Remington system.
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