…or not. Doug can help you with this in a Skype or Zoom lesson.

Finally, I will give you one thing to try that many brass teachers would take issue with, but it worked for me to adjust the timing of my tongue, and it's working for my students. Set yourself up to do an exercise like the Caruso Six Notes (see Julie's video), tap your foot ahead of time by at least 4 beats, and then when it comes time to play the first note, bring your tongue into position for the articulation EXACTLY a half beat ahead of when you want to the note to speak. Try it without the instrument; say "1, 2, 3, 4 N-Ta" The N happens exactly on the and of 4. Try it again and put it on the 4th 16th of beat 4.

For the record, I'm not saying to play this way for the rest of your life; I'm saying to try this to get yourself out of the tongue lock habit by applying rhythm to the preparatory motion of the tongue - the backswing if you will.

The inspiration for this exercise, and for my own exploration of the tip of the Caruso iceberg, was the late great Sam "Sabutin" Burtis, RIP. https://www.trombone.org/articles/articles.php alphabetical by first name

…jazz ideas to not exceed your technical ability. Develop your technique to the point where you can play intricate and lightning fast licks cleanly and with the precision of a valved or keyed instrument. Make the overall sound of what you're playing the top priority, and refuse to sacrifice either cleanliness or passion. Make glisses, slop, clipped notes and clams the rare and intentional exception to a vast ocean of clean playing.

And quit trying to convince people that your sloppy-ass technique and crap sound are a feature. You're only fooling yourselves.

Okay, that's my opinion. You may now commence firing. :) [/quote] This is very interesting! Don't have so much to say since I don't feel classical, jazz or commercial. Just struggling with my slide. But there was a famous jazz player here in the forum; Sabutin or Sam Burtis. He was very classical in his thoughts how to play trombone. In fact very strict on all basic trombone aspects. Marshall Gilkes is also a trombone player that probably do everything. Joe Alessi also played jazz before.

You have some good points Dana, and I think we all will follow this topic! This will be a good discussion. Because we all have something to learn from each other! Hope I can learn improvising but think it's to late.

Leif

…about 10 minutes. From the adjacent room, I heard him play that D on my horn as loud as possible repeatedly with his favorite (Denis Wick) mouthpiece at the time. When I returned to my lesson, the note did seem easier to play. It also seemed more stable in the months after that.

I don't know if he "burned" that note for me or if it was all psychological. For what it is worth, I have chosen to NOT do the same process with my students and their instruments. [/quote] Is this the anecdote Denis Wick described in p. 12 of his Trombone Technique? I’ve often wondered about it. It could be psychological, as you say. But I think there is something to it.

The late Sam Burtis (sabutin) described an incident where something like the opposite happened. He had a Conn trombone (coincidentally, I believe it was also a 6H) that played well: flexible yet stable. He said he could get a beautiful centered sound, as well as a nice shimmery brilliance. He sold it to someone who played mainly traditional jazz and Dixieland, and had a hard-blowing, raspy style of playing. Years later, Sam met the player again and play-tested the same horn. Sam said all the beauty was out of the horn. It sounded brittle, and he wasn’t able to get a beautiful, centered sound on it. When he pushed…

…but the cup is shallow, a good old Schilke 51 might be right. It will probably feel (and be) a tiny big wider than the 5G and a bit (more than a tiny bit) deeper. It won't be as deep as the 51D, but the inner rim diameter will also be significantly larger. There is a reason this is an old standard.

As suggested above, maybe a 52E2 if you want a really deep cup (4AL deep). I don't like a 52 for anything. The smaller throat and backbore combo just don't work for me. I have a 52E2 that sounds good on euph. For me, it isn't a trombone mouthpiece.

With any old/used Schilke, try a few. Every 51 you try will be a bit different.

I agree with J's suggestion of Hammond. The Schilke 51 cup shape can sound a bit "tubby" (my words, or I think Sabutin described it has "hooty"). A Hammond 12ML fixes that and is all around more even sounding. Some like 12Ls--I haven't tried one. If you want something bigger, 10 or 11 series.

I like the Griego recommendation too. I played a 4.5 for a long time. I like my 12ML more. And if a 4G rim shape works (too round for me), you can't beat a Faxx for value.

Paul

…much less the best, size for the OP.
[quote]I do not believe the OPs problem can be solved with another mpc.[/quote] No one's claiming that simply changing to a larger or smaller mouthpiece is going to solve the problem entirely, but it may partially alleviate the problem, thereby making it easier to fix, or it may exacerbate it. But the OP won't know unless he/she tries different sizes. Sticking with a particular mouthpiece size because it's what all the kool kids play is nonsensical, particularly when, as in the OP's case, the issues are symptomatic of a size mismatch. As Sabutin was wont to say on TTF, "Work smarter, not harder," and "Try everything; use what works ... FOR YOU."

What is lost by trying a few different sized mouthpieces, besides a few weeks time and a modest amount of money (and not even that if s/he can borrow a few mpcs from other players)? It's not like a few weeks trying larger and smaller mpcs is going to permanently damage the OP's chops, or that the mpcs can't be resold. In the worst case, the mpcs exacerbate the issues and the OP returns to the 6.5, with the additional knowledge borne of experience that the 6.5 size is the right size for him/her at his/her current state of development.
[quote…