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by Doug Elliott
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:32 pm
Forum: Tangents
Topic: Covid recovery for wind players
Replies: 3
Views: 204

Re: Covid recovery for wind players

Look up Ron Wilkins. He spent something like 34 days on a ventilator in an induced coma. He's starting to play again. And he's going to need help with living expenses and medical, if anybody can afford to contribute. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.expressnews.com/entertainment/music-stage/amp/How-...
by Doug Elliott
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:18 pm
Forum: Instruments
Topic: What is your protip for buying a trombone.
Replies: 13
Views: 803

Re: What is your protip for buying a trombone.

1. Ergonomics - feel and balance holding it. If you don't like holding it, nothing else really matters. 2. Evenness of response, resistance and resonance. Soft and loud and everything in between. You'll end up hating it if it's uneven. Or you'll have to make odd mouthpiece and playing choices to dea...
by Doug Elliott
Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:03 pm
Forum: Musicians
Topic: Sauer and Alessi
Replies: 47
Views: 2111

Re: Sauer and Alessi

Their relative sounds surprised me too, I expected Ralph to sound darker than he does and Joe to sound brighter. That's why I started to analyze how their sounds start and get to their brightness in different ways and times.
by Doug Elliott
Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:41 am
Forum: Musicians
Topic: Sauer and Alessi
Replies: 47
Views: 2111

Re: Sauer and Alessi

I'd love to talk about this in person but it's way too complicated to bring it up here. That's exactly related to what we are talking about in the Articulation thread, and what I just wrote there. And different embouchure types, because they have different response characteristics.
by Doug Elliott
Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:33 am
Forum: Teaching & Learning
Topic: Articulation
Replies: 15
Views: 786

Re: Articulation

Treat problems, not symptoms. Timing and subdivisions are extremely important in playing, but for this I think that's treating a symptom and ignoring the problem. The technique Gabe described two posts up is valuable. Reinhardt had a similar thing he called Hoo-Doo-Too. Almost all articulation probl...
by Doug Elliott
Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:08 am
Forum: Musicians
Topic: Sauer and Alessi
Replies: 47
Views: 2111

Re: Sauer and Alessi

Not sure what you're asking, Gabe. I was not thinking about equipment at all, I think if they switched horns they'd sound exactly the same. It's about their approach, and part of that approach is intertwined with stylistic choices they have developed as least partly due to their different embouchure...
by Doug Elliott
Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:42 pm
Forum: Musicians
Topic: Sauer and Alessi
Replies: 47
Views: 2111

Re: Sauer and Alessi

I don't know that you can make generalizations in those terms. They have very different characteristics at different volumes, articulations, and sustain. Joe has more "front" on the notes which makes for a brighter approach that immediately gets darker after the attack and then grows brightness back...
by Doug Elliott
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:15 pm
Forum: Musicians
Topic: Sauer and Alessi
Replies: 47
Views: 2111

Re: Sauer and Alessi

I was writing this at the same time...

I think Gabe's saying that if they played together they would have no trouble matching styles and sounds, because that's what good players do. Individually they're free to do their own thing.
by Doug Elliott
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:47 am
Forum: Teaching & Learning
Topic: Articulation
Replies: 15
Views: 786

Re: Articulation

A few more thoughts on this: I am not a fan of the metronome for this purpose -it's a crutch and I like to avoid that sort of thing. I have an exercise where you blow lightly, trying for a whisper-soft note, and don't worry at all about when (or if) the note starts. It will start eventually, and you...
by Doug Elliott
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:42 pm
Forum: Teaching & Learning
Topic: Articulation
Replies: 15
Views: 786

Re: Articulation

It's not an uncommon problem. Yes it's a nasty habit and you need to develop new habits. The first thing(s) to do: Take smaller breaths. You don't need that much air and it only creates tension. Air goes in and out. NEVER hold your breath. In and out. In normal life you virtually never hold your bre...
by Doug Elliott
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:34 pm
Forum: Mouthpieces
Topic: Schilke 60
Replies: 8
Views: 582

Re: Schilke 60

The lack of focus and flat high range have a huge effect on endurance. The thin rim is often not a problem but an advantage... for most players.
by Doug Elliott
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:54 pm
Forum: Musicians
Topic: Sauer and Alessi
Replies: 47
Views: 2111

Re: Sauer and Alessi

Yes but his playing and sound characteristics are not as typical of that type. I think that's just his personal choices as a soloist. Charlie Vernon is also that type, but it's harder to tell on bass trombone. Maynard Ferguson too. But let's keep this thread about Sauer and Alessi as it started. I d...
by Doug Elliott
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:32 pm
Forum: Musicians
Topic: Sauer and Alessi
Replies: 47
Views: 2111

Re: Sauer and Alessi

If you look for similarities in Ralph Sauer, Jay Friedman, JJ Johnson (low horn angle, 50/50 mpc placement, "consistent timbre" but expressive --- and similarities between Joe Alessi and (I won't bother to name them but) the vast majority of other players (70/30 mpc placement - straight out horn ang...
by Doug Elliott
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:42 pm
Forum: Modification & Repair
Topic: Satin finish using sandblasting
Replies: 12
Views: 472

Re: Satin finish using sandblasting

Old style "satin finish" was not brushed. I'm not sure it was done with blasting either I think it was just a plating technique, on top of polished brass.
by Doug Elliott
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:55 am
Forum: Modification & Repair
Topic: Satin finish using sandblasting
Replies: 12
Views: 472

Re: Satin finish using sandblasting

I find it interesting how a satin finish was popular 100 years ago and now it's coming back. The results would depend a lot on the media used. I would think that anything used on car parts would not be suitable for brass at all.
by Doug Elliott
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:49 am
Forum: (Classifieds) Instruments & Parts
Topic: WTB: Bach 36 slide
Replies: 7
Views: 311

Re: WTB: Bach 36 slide

If he finds a new slide I might be interested in the old one for a project. Mostly I just need an inner slide if anybody has one, so I don't care about the red rot.
by Doug Elliott
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:40 am
Forum: Musicians
Topic: Sauer and Alessi
Replies: 47
Views: 2111

Re: Sauer and Alessi

Sauer and Alessi are both obviously fantastic individual musicians and personalities. They are both perfect examples of the two completely different downstream embouchures. All of their playing characteristics are typical of their embouchure type in it's most correct form. It's all intertwined - you...
by Doug Elliott
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:45 am
Forum: Maintenance
Topic: What does a ultrasonic machine do?
Replies: 32
Views: 1175

Re: What does a ultrasonic machine do?

I'm assuming it's only the bell that peals. :shuffle:
:lol:
by Doug Elliott
Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:32 am
Forum: Mouthpieces
Topic: AL vs G vs Schilke cup comparison?
Replies: 2
Views: 396

Re: AL vs G vs Schilke cup comparison?

In general they are progessively deeper in this order, but it depends on which specific size and of course the usual inconsistency.

Bach G cup
Schilke no letter
Wick A cup
by Doug Elliott
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:39 pm
Forum: Maintenance
Topic: What does a ultrasonic machine do?
Replies: 32
Views: 1175

Re: What does a ultrasonic machine do?

hornbuilder wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:11 pm
...Knowing this, and utilizing this knowledge is why some of us can use the term " Professional" in our job title before "Instrument Repairer"
🙂
M
:P :clever: :lol:

And knowing not to put your hand in it
by Doug Elliott
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:38 pm
Forum: Mouthpieces
Topic: Rath R900 MP combination?
Replies: 12
Views: 753

Re: Rath R900 MP combination?

I'm around, send me a PM
by Doug Elliott
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:32 pm
Forum: Maintenance
Topic: What does a ultrasonic machine do?
Replies: 32
Views: 1175

Re: What does a ultrasonic machine do?

"Ultrasound" covers a lot of frequency range. I would guess the 44K (I think) used for cleaning is not the same as used for therapy.
by Doug Elliott
Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:21 pm
Forum: Instruments
Topic: What are these like?
Replies: 18
Views: 1467

Re: What are these like?

In both case they're different from anything else. Sometimes that's a good thing... sometimes not.
by Doug Elliott
Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:11 pm
Forum: Instruments
Topic: Why are earlier horns better?
Replies: 75
Views: 4901

Re: Why are earlier horns better?

Stretched octaves just sound better even if they're not mathematically "correct.". Tuning is always relative to what else you're hearing and what "sounds good.". You wouldn't play mathematically correct just intonation if you're playing with a piano - or really in virtually any situation, because it...
by Doug Elliott
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:38 pm
Forum: Instruments
Topic: A fad we haven't seen yet...fortunately?
Replies: 23
Views: 1267

Re: A fad we haven't seen yet...fortunately?

Reminds me of this place in Virginia:

http://www.antiquetables.com/

"Antique tables made daily"
by Doug Elliott
Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:32 pm
Forum: Modification & Repair
Topic: Gooseneck question
Replies: 8
Views: 754

Re: Gooseneck question

A .500 bore won't (and probably shouldn't) feel as open as a .508/.509 bore horn. Assuming the gooseneck that's on it is part of an overall good design (and I think it is), that's the wrong thing to mess with. I would probably either look at mouthpiece choices or leadpipes. Considering what I do, I'...
by Doug Elliott
Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:36 pm
Forum: Teaching & Learning
Topic: Music lessons every day?
Replies: 13
Views: 1019

Re: Music lessons every day?

I would be happy to "offer" daily lessons but who would pay for that? I've had students who would very much benefit from supervised practice, which is probably a better description. Like a trainer, to keep an eye on things temporarily, but at some point you have to develop enough perception to becom...
by Doug Elliott
Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:29 pm
Forum: Instruments
Topic: What are these like?
Replies: 18
Views: 1467

Re: What are these like?

The previous two posts from henryTBone are exactly my impression too. Very small, heavy, plays great if you like that sort of thing. I wouldn't buy it... but it's a good price for what it is.
by Doug Elliott
Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:26 pm
Forum: Modification & Repair
Topic: Adapting a trigger trombone for handicapped players
Replies: 23
Views: 1279

Re: Adapting a trigger trombone for handicapped players

Try tying that much weight to the end of your slide and I think you'll find out it's not a good idea. The regular position F attachment probably helps with balance. I would try to figure out an alternate method of supporting the horn, maybe a vertical shaft between the inside elbow and the bell, and...
by Doug Elliott
Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:30 pm
Forum: Mouthpieces
Topic: bass Trombone mpc observation
Replies: 60
Views: 4484

Re: bass Trombone mpc observation

I don't think there's any correlation to lip size either. There are so many other variations in facial structure - length and flexibility of the lip tissue both top and bottom (unrelated to size); placement of the nose and its underlying structure; relative lengths of the teeth vs lips; shape of the...
by Doug Elliott
Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:48 am
Forum: Modification & Repair
Topic: What did minick do?
Replies: 19
Views: 1476

Re: What did minick do?

And I think he was a pioneer in interchangeable leadpipes.

During the time he was active there really weren't many (or any) others doing the kind of custom stuff that he did, at that quality level.
by Doug Elliott
Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:42 am
Forum: Teaching & Learning
Topic: Zoom vs Skype
Replies: 10
Views: 737

Re: Zoom vs Skype

I'm using both. I find them about equal in quality but I find Zoom very hard to figure out after using Skype for a long time. Skype has had issues occasionally but seems OK right now.

I could be wrong but I think sound and video quality is more related to internet speed.
by Doug Elliott
Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:03 am
Forum: Mouthpieces
Topic: Does this exist?
Replies: 10
Views: 842

Re: Does this exist?

You pretty much nailed it in your first post. For you, small mouthpieces have problems with flexibility and low range. The 3G is comfortable and works well but has problems with endurance and high range (because it's big overall). Combining the 3G rim size with a shallower cup will be comfortable, g...
by Doug Elliott
Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:58 am
Forum: Instruments
Topic: Reynolds Slide options
Replies: 20
Views: 1538

Re: Reynolds Slide options

You previously said "the cracks on the ends of the inner and outer tubes are bad."
Most student horns are .500 bore... I'd look on Craigslist for anything in the $50-70 range and swap the tenons.
Except for horns that may have a one piece barrel with tenon, and I don't know which ones have that.
by Doug Elliott
Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:26 am
Forum: Mouthpieces
Topic: Does this exist?
Replies: 10
Views: 842

Re: Does this exist?

I take it for granted that people here know what I do, but maybe not. I make modular 3 piece mouthpieces and you can put together virtually any combination you can imagine. For your purposes I would probably recommend XT 103 or 104 rim, C+ cup, and D4 shank, although personally I would use a deeper ...
by Doug Elliott
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:37 pm
Forum: Mouthpieces
Topic: Playing a vintage 62h with a standard Morse shank Bach
Replies: 4
Views: 448

Re: Playing a vintage 62h with a standard Morse shank Bach

True but I really think it makes a positive difference when it fits right.
A Morse taper in a Conn receiver has a large gap around the bottom of the shank.
by Doug Elliott
Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:26 pm
Forum: Teaching & Learning
Topic: Embouchure for tuba doubler
Replies: 9
Views: 676

Re: Embouchure for tuba doubler

I just looked to remind myself what a Wick 4 is... very small, middle of my CB series. And the 25 is probably not much bigger.

See email from me.
by Doug Elliott
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:29 pm
Forum: Teaching & Learning
Topic: Embouchure for tuba doubler
Replies: 9
Views: 676

Re: Embouchure for tuba doubler

I now have 3 tubas and a sousaphone, and I mess around on them. I wouldn't necessarily call it practicing, but I've gotten to where I successfully played a gig. I would say try for a placement of concentric circles, but your nose is probably in the way of that. I use a narrow rim but a fairly large ...
by Doug Elliott
Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:00 pm
Forum: Modification & Repair
Topic: Cork Alternatives for mutes
Replies: 8
Views: 623

Re: Cork Alternatives for mutes

Normal mute corks are about 1/4" thick and the easily available gasket material is thinner than that. The 1/4" rubber/cork hybrid is prohibitively expensive. I think I remember trying that material years ago and it didn't seem to work very well. You want it to stick but not too much. I ended up just...
by Doug Elliott
Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:31 pm
Forum: Tangents
Topic: Yikes
Replies: 301
Views: 11417

Re: Yikes

Have you actually known someone to "change their ways?" All I see is people digging in deeper.
by Doug Elliott
Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:43 pm
Forum: Teaching & Learning
Topic: Cimera
Replies: 14
Views: 781

Re: Cimera

Maybe 5 of them aren't actually "phrasing studies."

You get to guess which ones.
by Doug Elliott
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:35 am
Forum: (Classifieds) Mouthpieces
Topic: MP for this old alto horn
Replies: 1
Views: 318

Re: MP for this old alto horn

The standard alto horn shank is almost the same as a trumpet shank. From what I've seen that has never changed. I have a "King" (HNWhite) alto horn from about 1940-41... (just looked up the serial number 221xxx). I can make that size shank for my mouthpieces, so it's possible to use a normal trombon...
by Doug Elliott
Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:20 pm
Forum: Teaching & Learning
Topic: Doubling on cornet: why is french horn easier?
Replies: 7
Views: 647

Re: Doubling on cornet: why is french horn easier?

Try to play trumpet or cornet with a "flatter" embouchure set, less protruded.
This is stuff I teach in Skype lessons if you're interested.
by Doug Elliott
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:37 pm
Forum: Accessories
Topic: Stand for Flugabone?
Replies: 2
Views: 347

Re: Stand for Flugabone?

The height wouldn't bother you if you were playing a gig standing up.

I would think any flugelhorn stand would work for the lower height.
by Doug Elliott
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:32 pm
Forum: Teaching & Learning
Topic: Doubling on cornet: why is french horn easier?
Replies: 7
Views: 647

Re: Doubling on cornet: why is french horn easier?

When you play trombone, your lips protrude somewhat into the mouthpiece. A trumpet or cornet mouthpiece cup is shallow enough that it doesn't allow that to happen and everything chokes off soon after you start playing and your lips swell a bit. A horn mouthpiece cup is much more forgiving of that, a...
by Doug Elliott
Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:07 pm
Forum: Instruments
Topic: New York Bach 4 tenor trombone
Replies: 11
Views: 745

Re: New York Bach 4 tenor trombone

Don't assume I only think about mouthpieces...
I knew it was a trombone and that's what I was talking about. The one I saw was something like .500 bore, not a tiny bore.

I wondered it it was mismarked. And I think Bob McChesney has it.
by Doug Elliott
Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:47 am
Forum: Instruments
Topic: New York Bach 4 tenor trombone
Replies: 11
Views: 745

Re: New York Bach 4

I've seen a Bach marked 4 but it wasn't an unusual size, I can't remember now what it was. I think Bob McChesney either has it now or he was the previous owner.
by Doug Elliott
Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:33 am
Forum: Mouthpieces
Topic: Bach 3G question (Defective?)
Replies: 25
Views: 1453

Re: Bach 3G question (Defective?)

It takes longer to make one of my shanks than a whole Bach mouthpiece. Quite a bit longer.
by Doug Elliott
Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:21 am
Forum: Mouthpieces
Topic: Bach 3G question (Defective?)
Replies: 25
Views: 1453

Re: Bach 3G question (Defective?)

I had a 3G that was like that once, completely different from any other Bach rim. It would have been made in the 1970's.
I didn't like the other Bach rims either.

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