TromboneChat

FEWeathers

I'm pretty sure Nick Grinder recorded his album "Farallon" playing a Stratodyne. Maybe he'll chime in on this thread. Meanwhile, have a listen...

https://youtu.be/p5wbeUzDtMs

FEWeathers

Beautiful!

FEWeathers

"I'd say it's a bit like a 51C4 with a slightly more open throat and less v-shaped cup." That's odd, as the 12M is totally a V-shaped, funnel-like cup, with no shoulders, heading straight into a smaller, .257" (F) throat, and then out through that big, open backbore. The small shank 51C4 is much clo...

FEWeathers

The Hammonds have really open backbores. On the 12M, I'd call it a 6 shank if it was one of Doug Elliot's backbores. Also, a really cheap substitute for the 13M would be the Blessing 6 1/2 AL. They're really similar in the cup, throat, and backbore.

Good luck with it!

FEWeathers

"He (Roy Lawler) even showed me his 1947 Martin Committee horn in excellent shape that he has modeled his horns after and really has something special here with his horns."

https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic. ... ee#p123563

FEWeathers

Scratching my head over that Olds Ambassador measurement, 'cause mine is the same as the Super, and Standard, though a little shorter than them. So, 64.5 (2.54").

Got another one for the list: King 3B - 67.8 (2.67").

FEWeathers

Nice pick, Nobbi! Conn 4Hs are superb.

FEWeathers

The new Alessi Q alto from Shires has a .485/.495 slide with gold brass outers, with a yellow crook.

FEWeathers

I liked the way you sound on it!

Yeah, if it was a funnel shape, the brightness wouldn't be as surprising, I suppose. Must be a tight backbore? Wizardry?

FEWeathers

Does the Schilke have a funnel shaped (V-shaped) cup? Like the Remington pieces for the 88H? And is the rim really 1.00 - 1.02ish? I have a plain old 52, and that rim is in the 1.05 range (way bigger than published specs). UPDATE: I may have answered my own question re: cup shape. It kind of looks l...

FEWeathers

Ralph Sauer plays with a small shank mouthpiece, and always has after he moved to using this slide. With the Conn slide, he used the "T" leadpipe. With the Shires slide, he uses the RS M leadpipe, which is the medium bore version of their Vintage Elkhart pipe. It's similar to the 2.5 Short pipe. He ...

FEWeathers

I have a 1950 Ambassador, and I concur. It slots really well, has a centered high register (High E in 2nd position/ High Bb in third), and a really solid sound in the low range for such a small bore horn. They're really good. Mine is an early, LA one, without a reverse tuning slide, and without the ...

FEWeathers

The Schilke 47 has the desired specs you've listed, but with the smaller rim Doug says you need. If you need a large shank version of that, Doug can whip that up for you.

FEWeathers

The highlighted mouthpieces in the photographs below are ones that I have (or had) in my possession, and that I've measured. Maybe someone will find the information useful. :idk: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dO_ppwn6uN7db1X1MFE0sopFJwdDuK0aIKQOhnQuHSq7Ww7xEnOrxHa61W1l6aDkeh0nwuGCRubs6N...

FEWeathers

CharlieB, Please don't confuse me with someone who thinks published specs of Schilke mouthpieces (at least) are even remotely, er, accurate. :wink: What I said about the 45 is accurate, and it's more like a Bach 6 3/4 sized rim than any 12. Behold! Pics are worth 1,000s of words... https://lh3.googl...

FEWeathers

I'd be interested to know what the rim/cup diameter is on it, because "slightly larger than the 46," which is "slightly larger than the 45" might actually mean something, seeings how the 45 I have measures 25.1-25.2mm (which is considerably larger than a 12C). If you haven't tried the 45, you might ...

FEWeathers

Noah, what's the rim size on your Almont? 23.5mm-ish?

FEWeathers

What size is the Gardinelli Wigham rim? 25mm?

FEWeathers

Like I mentioned, caveat emptor. I mean, even if the specs are directly from the maker, they're all over the place. Brian, the OP, listed the Hammond FA2 as in this category, for example. The Hammond website says the FA2 has a rim the size of a Bach 4, so like a 1.02" rim. That ain't no Bach 7-11 si...

FEWeathers

Not a bad place to sort through mouthpieces of various sizes. Now, are the measurements worth the paper they're printed on? YMMV.

http://www.dwerden.com/Mouthpieces/trom ... hank=Tenor

FEWeathers

Like Redthunder stated, my M21 (like the one pictured above) measures as follows:

Rim ID: .984" (25mm)
Cup Depth: E, with a contour kind of like Doug Elliot's C+ cup
Throat: .228" - .230" *my #1 bit (.228") goes through the throat, but the A drill (.234") won't.*
Backbore: similar to an Elliot #2

FEWeathers

You may find this older thread helpful...

https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=6031

FEWeathers

The 52 is way big compared with the published spec of 25.78mm...Anyone know how a 52 plays compared to a 3G ? Yeah, I was pretty surprised about how large the rim was when I received it. Waaaay too big a rim for me. I suppose I could fill it up with water, and use it as a wading pool? :D Cup depth ...

FEWeathers

Rim/ cupID measurements I've gotten on my brace of Shilkes. Note that in every case, they vary from the advertised specs (usually larger than published). 52: 26.8mm (105.5") *late edit* 51: 26.2mm (1.03") 51C4: 25.9mm (1.02") 50: 25.5mm (1.004") 47: 25.2mm (.992") 45: 25.2mm (.992") 44E4: 23.5mm (....

FEWeathers

Posaunus, For the sake of consistency, I made marks on the tips of my calipers. From the bottom of the measuring points, to the top of the black lines is 3mm. When eyeballing the measurement, I look for the top of the black lines to be flush with the top of the rim. Otherwise, I could torture any nu...

FEWeathers

Rim/ cupID measurements I've gotten on my brace of Shilkes. Note that in every case, they vary from the advertised specs (usually larger than published).

51: 26.2mm (1.03")

51C4: 25.9mm (1.02")

50: 25.5mm (1.004")

47: 25.2mm (.992")

45: 25.2mm (.992")

44E4: 23.5mm (.925")

42B: 24.1mm (.949")

FEWeathers

If you can come up with an Olds counterweight (the offset one they sold as an accessory), it will fit on the Recording. A longer screw would be nice, but it's not a necessity. The real challenge on the Recording is that the red brass inserts on the braces make it a really tight fit with an Olds coun...

FEWeathers

Well, this type also came with the 4H I have from 1929, and works great.

FEWeathers

Agreed. Also, their letter designations usually identify the drill size for the throat, vice the cup size.

FEWeathers

Conn 30H slide width? It's about the same as an Olds Super slide.

Conn
30H: 2.54"
6H: 2.74"

Olds
Super: 2.52"
Standard: 2.53"
Recording: 2.80"

FEWeathers

The 8H rim is larger than a Bach 6 1/2AL, but the 8H cup is shallower (like an Elliot D cup vs. the Bach's E cup), though the cup is certainly shaped like a 6 1/2AL cup.

The 6E rim is smaller than the 8H rim, still bigger than the Bach, but the cup is a wee bit shallower.

FEWeathers

Still wrapped in the plastic bag from the factory, though there is a little tarnish on one side near the end of the shank. I'm a small shank player, so I'm looking to let this go for $45.00 via Paypal (I don't recommend Friends & Family, so kindly add 3% for fees). Price includes shipping costs for...

FEWeathers

Going once; going twice...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133323680061?s ... 1555.l2649

FEWeathers

Still wrapped in the plastic bag from the factory, though there is a little tarnish on one side near the end of the shank. I'm a small shank player, so I'm looking to let this go for $45.00 via Paypal (I don't recommend Friends & Family, so kindly add 3% for fees). Price includes shipping costs for ...

FEWeathers

The Ax Handle fits the Shires TruBore valve with no problems. You'll need the .420" size kit.

FEWeathers

Thomann has a good pic of the Shires bass bone rest...

FEWeathers

The 30H Burkle has a 7" bell, but don't let that deter you. The bell throat and taper is as large as an 88H bell. It's a HUGE "little" horn.

FEWeathers

Courtois AC130 Alto: 162
Conn 4H LW (1949): 187
Conn 4H (1955): 236
Conn 30H (1933): 252
Olds Super (1937): 238
Olds Standard (1946): 222
Olds Super (1947): 208
Olds Recording (1950, red brass): 249
Old Recording (1955, nickel silver): 255
Olds P-22 GR Model (1977): 266

FEWeathers

FEWeathers wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:38 pm
"Ralph has a custom Schilke mouthpiece, essentially a 51 rim on a 50 cup in a special lightweight blank. It's small shank..."

^^Gabe Langfur on page 16 of the old Shires Q&A thread.

FEWeathers

oops.

FEWeathers

FWIW, Ralph uses a small shank mouthpiece on his signature Shires horn, as he did on the 88HTO with the SL2547 slide. A picture is worth a 1,000 words...

FEWeathers

Ben Griffin, circa 2016... [Shires Q&A, what would you like to know? Post by ttf_griffinben » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:49 am Quote from: tombone21 on Sep 15, 2016, 10:03AMWhat Shires components are most similar to the Edwards Alessi horn? In the interest of "what-ifs", because they are fun, the following ...

FEWeathers

Jim Nova has the best take on this...

FEWeathers

BTW, the Olds 1* seems to have measurements similar to ones mentioned in the 1939 Catalog for the Olds 1, but maybe they were a fudging the diameter a bit: The catalog says a 1" diameter cup (measures more like a Bach 6 3/4), and a "deep" cup (which turns out to be like an Elliot C+ cup), and a .250...

FEWeathers

I have a theory about the Olds 1* mouthpiece: it is made for competitor's horns with regular small shank receivers. That's my hypothesis, anyway, as I have an Olds 1* and it fits my Olds tenors like a Bach, or other normal Morse taper mouthpieces. That is to say, it doesn't go in far enough. It fits...

FEWeathers

This might be helpful, as Ben Griffin explains the effect different materials has on handslides,

"A yellow handslide crook gives you a little more warmth. It rounds out the articulations more than the nickel silver does..."

https://youtu.be/iMUdz0OHe70

FEWeathers

Yes, it's a U.S. Territory, currency is the Dollar, etc.

FEWeathers

There's one up on FB...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1637970 ... 0219279956

FEWeathers

Compare it to the cork barrels? Behold! https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3WlnudTRrg3SAX50RnBZGPAsS5TzOSnCkyipQwmRO10JYvoWrWTPAa2eRC38k46jPbzCpBPvhK7q4FEfwJBnTdGSo7yh26XmYbItqkM9ROIEROs01YiwwkKpb2rZxzYHthR9g1uLycFw-R0nO2ZSuIDFxv80WEZCdWC6uU1oIt-PEqoy1dOSTN4DflJO4NLAyqREyuES2snbzXaqA8gjYgzpbnPJQM7uP8...

FEWeathers

What castrubone says. Pick up the one from Dillons, and have it in a few days. It could be months if you order through ProWinds, as they have none in stock.

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