TromboneChat

JohnL

Your Honor: I would like to enter Exhibit A DuoGravis Patent.pdf Not exactly a Duo Gravis patent, as the linkage described was never actually used. It does bear a resemblance to what's now called the Haynor (sp?) grip. The fact that George McCracken went to the trouble of developing this design sug...

JohnL

The brass choir show is Sunday. But in the last 2 weeks, one of our conductors came down with pneumonia and a horn player had a heart attack. Fortunately, he had emergency surgery and is OK. But I am starting to think my band is cursed. They're both OK now, so I'd say that's more a blessing than a ...

JohnL

Depends on what you mean by "starter" bass trombone. Don't let that 10" bell flare fool you. The rest of the horn (leadpipe to bell throat) is small by modern standards (or even by late 1960's standards). Dual bore .554"/.565". Based on the vintage, I would expect this one to have .565" tubing in th...

JohnL

USQMD is United States Quartermaster Department, which was part of the Army. That means it's no newer than about 1912, since that's when the Quartermaster Department became the Quartermaster Corps.

Have you tried it with a modern large shank mouthpiece?

JohnL

PaulT wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:06 pm
Um... the Olds in question has a small shank mouthpiece. My bad. Don't know what I was seeing before, but it "tweren't right"

Such is life.

JohnL

I remember having a conversation with a local music store owner a few years ago when Eastman was first starting to make inroads into the US market. According to him, Eastman was specifically targeting a price point higher than the other China-based companies because they wanted to separate themselve...

JohnL

Pretty much all of Holton's symphonic-bore tenors had 9" flares, but I'm pretty sure it's a big flare on what is otherwise a tenor bell.

If you're just looking for an inexpensive single-rotor bass, the Yamaha YBL-321 or YBL-421 would be good choices.

JohnL

He plans on making our next concert, so I will likely get a chance to check the horn out. What should I look for? (I have camera and calipers) Where would the serial # be? If it's from the 1960's, the serial number should be on the slide side of the tenon joint, right by the threads (or the nut, de...

JohnL

(an aside) If you see an old Olds straight horn (early to mid sixties?) and all you know about is that it has a large shank mouthpiece (even though the rest of it looks not large), can you draw any conclusion about the likely bore? (it has an octagonal slide) I'd be very interested in getting more ...

JohnL

There's a reason why those pre-WWII Conn bass trombones are so darn rare - almost no one needed one unless they were playing in an orchestra. Not much call for an f-attachment in pre-WWII American concert band literature. One can be handy on some of the third trombone parts so you're not whipsawing ...

JohnL

GermanTrombone wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:33 pm
Any clue which legendary small bore they mean hear?

Martin Urbie Green model; TR4501

JohnL

Stir the pot a little bit and see if you can get Steve Shires to show off his new Stephens French horn.

JohnL

Never tried one, but I've heard a lot of good things about the Laskey 93D. Not sure about availability new, what with Scott Laskey's passing, but gently used ones pop up once in a while.

The Hammond 21BL/BXL would be another option.

JohnL

The Schilke 43A, 45B, and 47B were originally named the Cimera-Sares #1, #2, and #3, respectively.

Regarding Jaroslav (Jerry) Cimera: http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64756
Regarding Art Sares: http://www.trombone-usa.com/sares_art_bio.htm

JohnL

What's your repertoire like?

JohnL

Part of the difficulty of this question is music is difficult to impossible to measure in a meaningful way. In racing, we absolutely know equipment matters. Guys are faster on some setups then others. It provable with a stop watch. No arguments. Maybe that's why there are those who get obsessed wit...

JohnL

I used to see a lot of "wacky" news coming out of the Miami Herald being published in the McClatchy papers out here on the west coast. They don't do it as much any more, but there's still the odd, odd story from time to time.

and don't forget Florida Man's more well-traveled rival, Local Man.

JohnL

I know a 1* is definitely different from a 1, so I would give a provisional "yes". How it's different I could not say. Nothing in any of the Olds literature I have about the star mouthpiece models.

Which style of blank is it?

JohnL

The '73 catalog lists an NL-15 Special; .485"/.500" dual bore, nickel plated brass. No Studio model is listed. Olds did make a .500" bore Studio at one time (it's listed in the 1970 catalog); if I were trying to sum it up, I'd say the .500" Studio is an economy version of the P-15 while the Special ...

JohnL

???
I only see replies, not the original post?

JohnL

John didn't know you weren't a trombonist. Ah, the vagaries of the English language... Oh, I play trombone, but I do not do so professionally (or even semi-professionally, truth be told). Don't have a music degree, either, nor any training in pedagogy. The university I attended didn't even have a t...

JohnL

Unfortunately John L deleted all of his posts before I could read them so I'm missing that perspective. There wasn't much perspective to be missed; I posted a fairly lengthy set of references to the information from Olds catalogs (all of which are , mentioned an anecdote about George's leadpipe (yo...

JohnL

You mean this?

JohnL

Deleted. Sorry I wasted everyone's time.

JohnL

sirisobhakya wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:27 pm
I like my sound from behind the bell and when I play alone, but upon listening to a recording when in section I realized it is much brighter and has noticeably more bite than others to the point that it stands out.

Is your impression that your sound is too bright based on this single recording?

JohnL

Deleted.

JohnL

Not exactly pretty, but someone put a lot of effort into it. Looks like the original horn was a Fullerton A-15. Pretty small (.485"/.500", 7.5" bell) for an f-attachment. I remember a handful of horns of this sort (basic student tenors with interesting f-attachments grafted on) being on eBay a few y...

JohnL

Deleted.

JohnL

Deleted.

JohnL

Is the Clarke old enough? Doug Elliott sent me one to analyze for metal content and I played it on a rehearsal. It felt like a very comfortable 6.5 AL (I don't like the Bach 6.5 AL at all). I seriously thought about asking if I could buy it. Not enough good info on the web to be sure when the Conn ...

JohnL

Have you looked at the info here?
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnMpc ... tists.html

If I were you, I'd be looking for a Conn Clarke.

JohnL

Ralph Sauer wrote about Gordon Pulis's equipment in last quarter's ITA journal. He said he used a Bach 4 (not a 4G, a 4) on his 78H. I think that Pulis's mouthpiece choice is perhaps the most "authentic" possible reference. Pulis was born two years after the OP's 78H was built. Vincent Bach was jus...

JohnL

I don't think anything like the Get-A-Grip, Ax Handle, or Greenhoe Rest is going to work. They're all designed to work with instruments where the bell brace is behind the thumb. Maybe something like the Rath Hand Support?

JohnL

cozzagiorgi wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:20 am
Are they particularly uncomfortable?

For some people the stock D-G setup is excruciating uncomfortable. For others, it's the best thing they've ever tried. No accounting for taste and/or anatomical variation.

JohnL

Most likely something like this would have been the standard: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Conn-Trombone-Mouthpiece/113771121447?hash=item1a7d498b27:g:98UAAOSwQjxc9aPU In that era, you would have had some people using the older funnel-shaped designs while others would be going for something more...

JohnL

FOSSIL wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:52 am
... and blow up some balloons....

Now you've done it. You're talking about blowing something up; you're gonna end up on the no fly list.

JohnL

King used "Silvertone" to describe a sterling silver bell until they lost a trademark suit with Sears (who made a student grade trombone called Silvertone). King models after the trademark loss are called SilverSonic. There is no difference between a 2B Silvertone and a 2B Silversonic except that t...

JohnL

DrTbone43 wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:30 pm
Please direct me to trombone choir music appropriate for a Christmas Chamber concert. Level 5 music can work. A mix of classical to light stuff would be good.

If you want some jazz-oriented pieces, the Trombone Christmas books have some good stuff.

JohnL

Not sure if Holton did this, but it's a common practice in manufacturing to set aside blocks of serial numbers for specific models.

JohnL

FOSSIL wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:01 am
He has some very nice trombones ....

Not only did he travel six hours, but he brought trombones?

JohnL

A side benefit of a reverse tuning slide; the goop is on the outside of the tube.

JohnL

A 50H is a medium-bore horn (.522" bore), so it's not all that small. They were marketed as a "student bass trombone".

Never had a chance to play one that was in good condition; all I've ever seen is school horns and former school horns.

JohnL

It begs the question: "How much is Earl Williams and how much is C. G. Conn?" The wrap does look a lot like the 1930 70H over at the Conn Loyalist page (absent the add-on E valve) but, to my eyes, that there's a little more space between the back bow and the outer loop of the attachment, with corres...

JohnL

Any details? Dimensions, etc.? The "Patent Pending" marking on the curved handbrace would indicate that it was made sometime after January 4th, 1928 (the filing date for that patent). The patent was issued on November 25th, 1930, but it's possible Earl had some stock of "Patent Pending" braces on ha...

JohnL

And one last point - interesting post by Doug Yeo on his "Last Trombone" blog about Edward Kleinhammer the other giant that stood alongside George Roberts in the Bass Trombone annals of history - theres a picture of them meeting for the first time in 2004 too. Several years ago, Charlie Vernon was ...

JohnL

Tbarh wrote: ↑
Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:39 pm
If the innerslide was smoother the slide would perfect.. It looks like the stocking are soldered on.. Havent had the opportunity to measure the bore..

Make sure to measure the stocking OD. That's the important dimension when you're looking to replace inner slide tubes.

JohnL

I once played a community band gig that was for a sort of grand opening/sales pitch for a newly opened, high end "adult community". Crickets. It was pretty much just us and the staff and maybe a half dozen potential customers. On the plus side, the dessert chef from their on-site restaurant had been...

JohnL

Nobody comes out of nowhere. We (and they) stood on the shoulders of those who went before. To some extent, George DID come out of nowhere. Yes, there were plenty of excellent bass trombonists before him, but his primary inspiration came not from them, but from a tenor player (Urbie Green). He esse...

JohnL

I think it's the same receiver as a Bach, at least the same taper. Try your slide on a Bach bell to verify. That rings a bell for me, too. Did your tech check the Allied catalog? It’s sometimes surprising what the actually have. They were the ones who ended up with most of the Olds parts inventory....

JohnL

I suspect it depends on what additives are used; as Andrew pointed out, neither is pure alcohol. Back when I worked as a metallurgist, we'd rinse samples with methanol so they'd dry without residue. Harder to get that rubbing or denatured alcohol. One time we ran out and tried using drug store rubbi...

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