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AFTER   BEFORE 
by ttf_ALT
Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:14 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: On Mouthpiece Buzzing
Replies: 69
Views: 26466

On Mouthpiece Buzzing

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=100602.msg1199276#msg1199276]Quote from: sabutin on Jun 18, 2017, 07:31PM[/url]I don't spend much time (or money) trying to "prove" what I am doing to others

...and on the evidence of the general lack of wide acceptance of my really quite thorough, 245 page book on what I am doing and the several YouTube videos (also fairly low quality) that I put up a number of years ago, the doubters would continue to doubt no matter what I did.

I present my results on a few websites. A few people pick up on them; a few more come to see me to hear exactly what I am doing live and in the flesh, and the rest?

I have given very clear instructions on how I go about this particular practice, just as in my book I have given equally clear instructions on how to approach other things that I have discovered about brass playing in general. Check them out for yourself, or...if you have a real interest...come visit me in the Bronx. I welcome all questioners, even the ones who think I'm full of it.




I own your book, have checked out both of your videos, and read a lot of what you…
by ttf_ALT
Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:25 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: On Mouthpiece Buzzing
Replies: 69
Views: 26466

On Mouthpiece Buzzing

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=100602.msg1199218#msg1199218]Quote from: sabutin on Jun 18, 2017, 10:27AM[/url]
I just freebuzzed an A major scale starting at A=220 bps. Clear and fairly easy to buzz on down to A=13.75 bps. Harder down to A=6.87 bps, but still clearly discernable as an A an octave lower that the previous octave and seemingly vibrating progressively slower as I traversed that octave. The next octave is questionable. It is certainly not vibrating at 206.1 bpm...I am not even sure that the lips are buzzing any slower...yet I hear a quite easily discernible A major scale descending from the octave above. I can go down about another octave in terms of perceived pitch, but the lip frequencies are not even close to being 103.05 bpm.


S.


Have you ever ever made a recording of yourself completing this (or similar) exercise? I'd be curious to hear it.




by ttf_Geezerhorn
Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:05 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: On Mouthpiece Buzzing
Replies: 69
Views: 26466

On Mouthpiece Buzzing

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=100602.msg1199179#msg1199179]Quote from: sabutin on Jun 17, 2017, 09:12PM[/url]Yes. I didn't believe it myself, at first. I had to write down the ranges where my freebuzz stopped and started again a number of times before I began to be able to keep track of the octaves and trust what I was doing. It's a very...involving...pursuit. The mind tends to give up at a little below the double pedals. But freebuzzed triple pedals are normal now, and sometimes...when the stars are right...I just keep on going down using Caruso interval exercises into the Never-Never Lands of controlled horse lip flapping...but quite identifiable...pitches.

I know...it sounds like wasted effort at best.

But it's not.

Bet on it.

At the very least it is a great lip massage.

Bet on that as well.

S.

Lip massage. lol

It is hard to imagine "buzzing" that low. If I take it to THE most ridiculous extreme and manually cause the lips to go out and back in at a rate of about once a second (or even slower!) simply by expelling a small puff of air, is that even…
by ttf_ALT
Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:20 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: On Mouthpiece Buzzing
Replies: 69
Views: 26466

On Mouthpiece Buzzing

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=100602.msg1199179#msg1199179]Quote from: sabutin on Jun 17, 2017, 09:12PM[/url]
But freebuzzed triple pedals are normal now, and sometimes...when the stars are right...I just keep on going down using Caruso interval exercises into the Never-Never Lands of controlled horse lip flapping...but quite identifiable...pitches.



From what I can gather off a quick google search.

 [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/BassClef.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/Line2.gif[/img] = 116.5hz

Pedal Bb = 58.27hz

Double Pedal Bb = 29.14hz

"Triple" pedal Bb = 14.57hz = 16th notes at 220bpm

"Quadruple" Pedal Bb = 7.28hz = 8th notes at 220bpm

"Quintuple" Pedal Bb = 3.6hz = 220bpm


Is this what you are referring to? Do you identify 220bpm as a Bb?
by ttf_ALT
Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:53 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: On Mouthpiece Buzzing
Replies: 69
Views: 26466

On Mouthpiece Buzzing

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=100602.msg1199145#msg1199145]Quote from: sabutin on Jun 17, 2017, 02:36PM[/url]
I also freebuzz down from the higher and middle ranges...again, using my hands to stabilize my cheek muscles in the sub-sub-pedal ranges (like 4 and even 5 octaves below the pedals and even further) right down to a place where I am almost buzzing a tempo instead of a note. Depending on the rim diameter, there always comes a range point where no matter what I do I cannot fit the needed aperture for those low ranges and volumes inside of a given rim...it's higher on small rims, progressively lower on big rims including the widest tuba rims, but eventually no practical rim can contain the necessary apertures in the sub-pedal ranges.



Freebuzzing 5 octaves below 'the pedals'?
by ttf_Geezerhorn
Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:26 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: On Mouthpiece Buzzing
Replies: 69
Views: 26466

On Mouthpiece Buzzing

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=100602.msg1199145#msg1199145]Quote from: sabutin on Jun 17, 2017, 02:36PM[/url]Freebuzzing...done right...helps you to find your own natural embouchure(s).

What I am about to say will sound somewhat like heresy to many very fine players and teachers, but I am going to try anyway.

I have known since high school that the embouchures needed to produce say a 12th partial F on a tenor trombone and a BBb tuba pedal Bb are not "the same." I could play both pretty well in high school, and they did not relate physically except in the fact that they were both produced by the same physical system. The lip masses used were entirely different, just for starters, and of course the rims were widely different in diameter. I didn't think about this much...I just played...until I was in my late 20s/early 30s and wanted to expand my ranges...and the quality of my playing in those ranges...further than I had been able to do so using various Carmine Caruso approaches...basically up and down from the approximate middle, nose breathing and leaving the m'pce on the chops throughout the whole (playable) exercise until a note did not sound, then resting a minute or so and starting where you left off and doing the same…
by ttf_ALT
Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:47 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: On Mouthpiece Buzzing
Replies: 69
Views: 26466

On Mouthpiece Buzzing

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=100602.msg1199053#msg1199053]Quote from: sabutin on Jun 17, 2017, 03:41AM[/url]I buzz the m'pce exactly like I play the horn through almost all of my ranges. Same angle, same setting on the chops, same air. In and out. No change.

And...I freebuzz into the m'pce (or horn and m'pce) throughout the ranges and volumes with as little change as it is possible for me to manage. I have been doing so in daily practice for over 30 years, so I've gotten pretty good as it. It is indeed "possible to do so." Is it necessary to do so? No. Will it help one become a better player? If done right, yes. But it's not a necessity by any means.

S.

You've just said you buzz your mouthpiece exactly like you play the horn through almost all of your ranges. You've also said you free buzz with as little change as possible.

I'm possibly being semantic here, but, is it really zero change? Are you not changing anything?

I take from your comments that you goal is to get as close as possible to the real thing. I'm asking purely out of curiosity, without the intension of posing these…
by ttf_Geezerhorn
Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:23 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Slide technique practice out of facetime?
Replies: 26
Views: 14856

Slide technique practice out of facetime?

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=100664.msg1199519#msg1199519]Quote from: sabutin on Yesterday at 08:30 AM[/url]No.

Not really.

Is it possible to practice running or shooting a basketball without running or shooting a basketball?

No.

Playing a musical instrument is a physical act. It is what the Germans call a gestalt [url=http://www.dictionary.com/browse/gestalt]...a configuration, pattern, or organized field having specific properties that cannot be derived from the summation of its component parts; a unified whole.[/url]

Of course, one can visualize the act of playing a given set of phrases without holding or playing the horn. I do that all the time when learning tunes...especially in different keys that require extended positions, for instance. I often move my right arm in a semblance of the slide movements as well while doing this.

But where the rubber actually meets the road? No. Gotta do it, not think about doing it.

Later...

S.

Gee, I don't know Sam. I think The Music Man might have wanted to argue your point! lol

...Geezer
by ttf_ntap
Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:55 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: My mouthpiece travels
Replies: 31
Views: 9873

My mouthpiece travels

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=100977.msg1202443#msg1202443]Quote from: sabutin on Jul 08, 2017, 07:04AM[/url]Indeed, Nick. But...some players need a shift to get those notes on a small rim. Britt Woodman certainly did. Take a look at the YouTube vid of Britt playing "Hank Cinq" w/Ellington on his 11C/2B equipment. Plain as day.

Totally.  His sound is so great down there though!  Small mouthpieces can still get great sounds in the low range, just wanted to correct the record when Bruce said that.  
....I think we go too big too early in the education process on all parts of equipment, and there is really so much that can be done and gained by using a smaller piece on a smaller horn, even learning how to live with those shifts.

Here's Sonnet to Hank Cinq

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVIxhM8E1WY&ab_channel=DukeEllington-Topic]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVIxhM8E1WY&ab_channel=DukeEllington-Topic[/url]

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=100977.msg1202443#msg1202443]Quote from: sabutin on Jul 08, 2017, 07:04AM[/url]Thus Jimmy Knepper's sole tenor trombone m…
by ttf_Geezerhorn
Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:30 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: My mouthpiece travels
Replies: 31
Views: 9873

My mouthpiece travels

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=100977.msg1202294#msg1202294]Quote from: sabutin on Yesterday at 08:21 AM[/url]That was not necessarily my intent. Discuss on. Please.

S.

Sam mentioned playing on a 12C.

I believe it was on another thread that he mentioned it being a lot of maintenance to make work and that only a seasoned pro could sound nice on lower-register notes.

I wonder if anyone else shares this sentiment, especially it taking a lot of work to make nice with. That's my experience with a 12C. I can play it and there are advantages, I just don't want to constantly have to dog it to make it work right. But for some odd reason, I can not share the observation that nice lower-range notes are darned difficult. I find them very mellow, but okay - not powerful, as on a 6.5AL or the like.

...not asking for advice; just musing and wondering what others' observations are...

...Geezer
by ttf_The Bone Ranger
Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:39 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: AR Resonance Mouthpieces
Replies: 122
Views: 326373

AR Resonance Mouthpieces

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101155.msg1229317#msg1229317]Quote from: sabutin on Jan 20, 2018, 01:35PM[/url]This after about two weeks of intensive practice trying to learn how to play it.

Sam, can you expand on this a little? Was it a unique process learning to play this AR mouthpiece compared to other mouthpieces you've embraced over the years?

Andrew
by ttf_ntap
Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:35 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: AR Resonance Mouthpieces
Replies: 122
Views: 326373

AR Resonance Mouthpieces

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101155.msg1227855#msg1227855]Quote from: sabutin on Jan 09, 2018, 09:39PM[/url]I was "the colleague." And I have been impressed by it as well. Still on the fence about it...not quite aggressive enough in terms of brilliance of attacks...but I went back to my Minick "11C/7C on steroids" tonight (about 15 years and counting as my big band lead/solo m'pce of choice) in performance with the same band as the one to which one ntap refers above, and it was just too...unreliable...compared to the AR I've been trying.
 
Too "picky/choosy"in the registers above G4. ([img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/TrebleClef.gif[/img]  [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/Line2.gif[/img])

Is there an available compromise? Do I just need to keep playing the AR until I adjust to it?

I really don't know.

Stay tuned.

S.

P.S. When ntap played it, he sounded…
by ttf_bigeg
Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:05 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: AR Resonance Mouthpieces
Replies: 122
Views: 326373

AR Resonance Mouthpieces

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101155.msg1227855#msg1227855]Quote from: sabutin on Jan 09, 2018, 09:39PM[/url]I was "the colleague." And I have been impressed by it as well. Still on the fence about it...not quite aggressive enough in terms of brilliance of attacks...but I went back to my Minick "11C/7C on steroids" tonight (about 15 years and counting as my big band lead/solo m'pce of choice) in performance with the same band as the one to which one ntap refers above, and it was just too...unreliable...compared to the AR I've been trying.
 
Too "picky/choosy"in the registers above G4. ([img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/TrebleClef.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/Line3.gif[/img])

Is there an available compromise? Do I just need to keep playing the AR until I adjust to it?

I really don't know.


Stay tuned.

S.

P.S. When ntap played it…
by ttf_griffinben
Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:22 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: AR Resonance Mouthpieces
Replies: 122
Views: 326373

AR Resonance Mouthpieces

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101155.msg1225557#msg1225557]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 21, 2017, 03:43PM[/url]Hmmmm...I'm using a 46 11 shank on the C and it's still not as good below middle Bb as I need. Even my NY 11C is better down there, as are of course the NY Clarke S and Mt. Vernon 6.5A too.

S.

Hi Sam, I wonder if mouthpiece insertion depth would solve that.  I little teflon to back it out a smidge.
by ttf_griffinben
Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:08 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: AR Resonance Mouthpieces
Replies: 122
Views: 326373

AR Resonance Mouthpieces

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101155.msg1225495#msg1225495]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 21, 2017, 09:48AM[/url]Hello Ben. I am finding the same thing w/the standard C cup...great above middle Bb, progressively less good...for me...on the way down from there. What shanks are you using on the C+ and V+?

Hi Sam,

I found the C+ to not work for me.  I've tried a bunch and it just is a little too dull.  I'm using a 43 shank on the V+ and now a 46 on the C.  The slightly bigger opens it up for me.  I'm curious if there's a V of similar depth/style to the standard C...
by ttf_ntap
Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:44 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: AR Resonance Mouthpieces
Replies: 122
Views: 326373

AR Resonance Mouthpieces

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101155.msg1219376#msg1219376]Quote from: sabutin on Nov 04, 2017, 09:43AM[/url]Ben...

Are you going to be in the NYC area any time soon? I'd really like to try those cup variations.

Sam

Ditto that.
by ttf_baileyman
Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:59 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Finding motivation to practice
Replies: 21
Views: 9783

Finding motivation to practice

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101260.msg1204383#msg1204383]Quote from: Googleman225 on Yesterday at 02:47 PM[/url]...How can I find the motivation to practice? ...
sabutin has a random routine for creating exercised that cover every base.  It's a great way to keep motivated since you have no idea what's coming next!



[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101260.msg1204383#msg1204383]Quote from: Googleman225 on Yesterday at 02:47 PM[/url]I wanted to outline some issues that I am encountering:
My tongue. When I want to articulate, my tongue shoots up which blocks my airstream. How can I get my tongue to stay down when I'm articulating and when I am sustaining a note?
Breath attack.  Start a note just by blowing.  After the note gets going you can observe what's happening with the tongue. 


[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101260.msg1204383#msg1204383]Quote from: Googleman225 on Yesterday at 02:47 PM[/url]Lip slurs/flexing. I've been taught by my professor that flexing between partials takes the strain off of your upper lip and makes partial jumps cleaner. I've…
by ttf_Geezerhorn
Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:26 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Double buzz - please help
Replies: 42
Views: 24641

Double buzz - please help

A Moderator said to do a search. This is something I found:

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=19994.msg270866#msg270866]Quote from: sabutin on Nov 23, 2005, 07:35AM[/url]No matter how you go about it, in order to correct a double buzz problem you must first understand what it is. What really causes it. What the mechanism is that makes the "double buzz" sound. I mean...this idea goes right on through ALL considerations of embouchure. Everything happens behind the curtain. Behind the opaque m'pce. Behind the closed doors of the lips. It's a secret world in there, and we must use our minds to open it up.

So...what IS a "double buzz"?

Really.

Never thought about it?

Well...here goes.

A double buzz is what happens when two parts of the aperture...two sides of the buzzing hole between the lips...access two different contiguous partials.

It's really that simple.

Why doesn't it happen very often (if ever) in the higher registers?

The aperture is too small and the tension of the embouchure muscles is too great. No room in the chop, plus the chop muscles are too strong up there.
by ttf_Doug Elliott
Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:51 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: High range switching between instruments
Replies: 10
Views: 4238

High range switching between instruments

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101449.msg1206057#msg1206057]Quote from: sabutin on Aug 02, 2017, 10:16AM[/url]When you go back to the modern horn/m'pce, you start playing it with the embouchure setting/air support/whole tongue positioning approach that you use on the older horn/m'pce. But the timbral/stylistic aims that you have for the modern equipment are different, and you quickly revert to that set of physical approaches.
That would be my guess too.  Especially because of the difference in throat size between the two mouthpieces, the larger setup allows you too open your chops up too much, and you quickly lose the ability to focus those high notes.
by ttf_Geezerhorn
Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:45 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: How do you spend your practice breaks?
Replies: 20
Views: 6316

How do you spend your practice breaks?

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101458.msg1216854#msg1216854]Quote from: sabutin on Oct 14, 2017, 01:36PM[/url]I don't practice like that when i am working hard gigs. I always say that if it hadn't been for the relatively slow times after the winter holidays and the dog days of summer I would have never learned how to play the trombone. On a gig day I usually just warm up at home enough to feel like I have a good balance.

Like any good athlete.  [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/smile.gif[/img]

S.


Okay. That seems like a down-to-earth approach. I pretty much do the same thing.

But I have heard of guys who practice till their gums bleed (an exaggeration, of…
by ttf_Geezerhorn
Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:08 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: How do you spend your practice breaks?
Replies: 20
Views: 6316

How do you spend your practice breaks?

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101458.msg1216822#msg1216822]Quote from: sabutin on Oct 14, 2017, 07:05AM[/url]I take a lot of short breaks...3 or 4 minutes, often even less...especially when I am doing Caruso-style exercises. I try to do something mildly mindless like surfing the web. Anything other than something that demands deep concentration or much physical movement.

Works for me...average practice day, 4 or more hours.

S.

On top of that practice time is a pretty robust gig schedule, I would imagine. So that is quite a load!

My mindless breaks are this Forum and FB. Lol Break over!

...Geezer
by ttf_Pre59
Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:13 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists
Topic: High note articulation
Replies: 66
Views: 21780

High note articulation

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101567.msg1208502#msg1208502]Quote from: sabutin on Aug 17, 2017, 08:49AM[/url]"Slotted?" To the point of being able to use slide vibrato on them? If so, your equipment is very good up there.

Question:

When you play a 12th partial Eb in 3rd position. the G, G#/A and A are to be expected...they are the 15th, 16th and...something resembling...the 17th partials. (After the 16th partials the overtone series turns into quarter tones.) Are there not an F of some sort and an F# above that Eb before you get to the G? There are on all of my horns, and that is the way the overtone series with Ab1 (Pedal Ab) as its fundamental.

S.

Well, slotted as in that there's a clear difference between the notes, but vibrato? I doubt it.

Is there not an F of some sort and an F# above that Eb before you get to the G? S

I didn't look for it because I already have a good one using a b2nd above the D. There's a short run of minor third intervals in this Partial, and using flat positions I've got.. !st Eb-Gb, 2nd D-F, 3rd C sharp…
by ttf_bigeg
Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:05 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: 6.5a (small shank) variations
Replies: 25
Views: 10237

6.5a (small shank) variations

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101606.msg1207700#msg1207700]Quote from: sabutin on Aug 13, 2017, 12:00AM[/url]I believe that my NY Clarke S was one of the m'pces they used at Brass Ark to develop their version. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, BrassArk guys.) I concur w/bigeg. The Clarke S is actually more open than most 6.5ALs. A great m'pce, but so are many 6.5As. I am playing a 6.5A now...a Mt. Vernon...on my .508 Shires. I played them in the past on other .508 horns with very good results compared to 6.5ALs as far as general business, American idioms trombone playing is concerned. They are a little brighter sounding than 6.5ALs, a little easier in the high range and still very good in the lower ranges.

And...sadly...yes, the large shank 6.5A is actually more open blowing and larger than the large shank 6.5AL. I have heard different justifications for why this happened, but it sounds to me like some bean counter simply didn't know his ass from his elbow, and that error calcified in the vast corporate reaches of UMI or whatever other company now owns the Bach/King/Conn triumvirate.

So it goes.

Later...

S.

…
by ttf_yeodoug
Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:42 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
Topic: Seeing the Unseen: Douglas Yeo playing trombone in a MRI scanner
Replies: 17
Views: 33173

Seeing the Unseen: Douglas Yeo playing trombone in a MRI scanner

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101749.msg1209636#msg1209636]Quote from: sabutin on Aug 23, 2017, 08:56AM[/url]If you haven't seen it, there is a very interesting thread about your MRI experience on the Facebook Trombone Pedagogy page. Gabe is involved, as am I and a number of other serious teachers of the trombone art and craft. Go check it out if you get a chance.

Thanks, Sam. I don't do Facebook so I can't see the Trombone Pedagogy FB page. But I'm glad you're all having a good discussion.

Here is a bit of information I added to my article this morning, at the request of Dr. Jens Frahm, to make something more clear:

"In my videos, the tip of my tongue was not always imaged as clearly as it is with some other players when it moves to the most anterior (frontal) position. The reason for this is the fact that I have a titanium dental implant in one of my eye teeth that created what is called a susceptibility artifact that led to some signal intensity alterations at that place in my mouth. This is sometime seen as quick flashes of light that some may mistake for spit/saliva. This metal implant did not, however, affect the clarity of the imaging in any other part…
by ttf_matto
Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:06 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Technology
Topic: Looking for an All-in-One Printer that Prints Well
Replies: 15
Views: 32358

Looking for an All-in-One Printer that Prints Well

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101791.msg1209922#msg1209922]Quote from: sabutin on Aug 24, 2017, 12:42PM[/url]Does anyone know a reliable, not-too-expensive ($300? Less? More?) black and white laser that easily handles legal size paper in a stack (Good for scores) or even larger sizes?

S.

Sam,

[url=http://www.brother-usa.com/Printer/ModelDetail/1/HLL2300D/Overview]http://www.brother-usa.com/Printer/ModelDetail/1/HLL2300D/Overview[/url]

This Brother model claims, in several places on the description, to have a tray that handles legal paper. I have a 2140, that appears to have the same footprint, that I don't believe can hold legal paper except at the manual feed tray, so I'm a little skeptical.

This page lists all the B/W Brother Laser models in order of increasing capability with MSRP. I don't believe any of them handle larger sizes of paper, but I didn't do an exhaustive reading of the list either.

[url=http://www.brother-usa.com/Printer/BW_Monochrome_Laser_Printers/]http://www.brother-usa.com/Printer/BW_Monochrome_Laser…
by ttf_Pre59
Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:18 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Tongue Motion
Replies: 26
Views: 8477

Tongue Motion

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101839.msg1210556#msg1210556]Quote from: sabutin on Aug 28, 2017, 12:19PM[/url]
There's a very thin line between over-analysis and purposeful ignorance. In everything, not just brass playing. If we learn how to walk that line, things happen more quickly and more efficiently.


Amen to that.

I've gone back to some of the older exercises from my youth and mixed them up with some newer (?) ideas of my own, and have found that practice has become more satisfying and productive. I don't think that I have any problems in particular, but I wouldn't mind being able to do everything a little better..
by ttf_Geezerhorn
Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:11 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Picking out high notes out of thin air.
Replies: 60
Views: 25658

Picking out high notes out of thin air.

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=102818.msg1219478#msg1219478]Quote from: sabutin on Nov 05, 2017, 07:28AM[/url]That's not quite it, Geezer. It's more of a two-stage operation. Done right, Caruso-style exercises create a correct gestalt...the whole enchilada, from the in-breath and other physical, mental and musical preparations for the note to the initial attack and sustained tone. Attempting to make a "good" sound has nothing to do with that process, and in fact during the the early stages of doing Caruso stuff a good sound is very rarely present. One of the most difficult parts of learning Carmine's approach is giving up the attempt to sound "good" while doing his exercises, and that alone probably explains why there is so relatively little Caruso influence in mainstream pedagogy. Sounding bad in the practice room in front of all of your friends, enemies, competitors and teachers??? HORRORS!!! Having people sound bad in your teaching studio in front of your bosses and competitors? Ditto.

Carmine never encouraged people to "get a good sound" while playing his exercises. he just wanted us to do them the way he told us to do them. His point was that if you did his exercises well, a good sound would be the eventual result. The embouchure and all of the surrounding systems...breathing, support, horn angle, tongue and mouth/vocal…
by ttf_The Sheriff
Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:03 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Town Hall / Notices from TTF Members
Topic: Urbie Green GoFund
Replies: 18
Views: 36862

Urbie Green GoFund

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=103083.msg1221349#msg1221349]Quote from: sabutin on Nov 17, 2017, 11:46PM[/url]Unfortunately, HTR, "politics"...and the monetization of human health and life that has been supported by both major political parties under the direction/compulsion of massive financial support by Big Insurance, Big Pharma and Big Med...cannot "stay out of this thread."

Sorry...

I am old enough to be able to remember when working class and middle class people could reasonably expect fairly high-level medical care at a price that they could afford to pay. Those days are gone forever. Urbie's plight...and the plight of so many other U.S. citizens who never made nearly as much as did Urbie Green (nor did they contribute nearly as much to the culture)...is mainstream business now. Social Security and pensions are presently under serious attack by the bipartisan, duoparty Permanent Government, and the .01% that controls most of the money and power in this country could care less.

"Let'em eat cake, if they can afford it. If they can't? The hell with them. We have robots that can do their work."

Find me a robot who can produce the depth of musical feeling that Urbie in his prime could produce on an easily acquired, stock King trombone and…
by ttf_anonymous
Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:58 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Rath R2 vs Shires Michael Davis +
Replies: 26
Views: 43514

Rath R2 vs Shires Michael Davis +

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=103560.msg1225045#msg1225045]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 18, 2017, 07:51AM[/url]Let me establish out front...I am a Shires guy. However, I have nothing but admiration for what Mick Rath has done. Maybe if I could drive to the Rath factory as easily as I can to the Shires factory I'd be a Rath guy. I don't really know. But I do know that I have played any number of Raths of all sizes and have also sat next to many really fine players in trombone sections as they switched to Raths from other brands. I can hear the differences.

That said...as a general overall take:

1-Shires horns tend to have a more "complex" sound...more overtones (or at least different ones)...than do Raths.

However...

2-This is a two-edged sword. I think that Shires horns generally require more effort to play, and I also think that...at least on the inside of large jazz ensembles...the Raths tend to blend better with the trumpets and also seem to "jump out" over forceful rhythm sections more than do the Shires. They are also a little quicker in response,too.This is something that I have noticed for years with good King horns as well. They are…
by ttf_Chris Fidler
Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:36 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Rath R2 vs Shires Michael Davis +
Replies: 26
Views: 43514

Rath R2 vs Shires Michael Davis +

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=103560.msg1225045#msg1225045]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 18, 2017, 07:51AM[/url] many Rath .508 bores

Just to clarify, Rath don't do a .508 bore. The R2 is a .510 bore.
by ttf_Andrew Meronek
Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:50 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / The Healthy Trombonsit
Topic: Movie theatre loudness
Replies: 13
Views: 28995

Movie theatre loudness

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=103638.msg1225804#msg1225804]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 23, 2017, 11:33AM[/url]Bring earplugs.

I have a set in every instrument case, and for my day job, in my tool bag. Not custom earplugs, just solid, reusable 28dB reduction that fit well enough they don't give me a headache.

I also just avoid environments that I know will be loud, in general, if I can.
by ttf_tbathras
Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:18 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
Topic: Kleinhammer and his Eb tuba mouthpiece
Replies: 34
Views: 54756

Kleinhammer and his Eb tuba mouthpiece

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=103643.msg1225997#msg1225997]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 25, 2017, 09:42AM[/url]I used to use an EEb tuba m'pce on bass trombone when some foolish studio "arranger" wrote stuff in the pedal ranges that I simply couldn't play. English Besson EEbs (I still play one) used to come stock with a Besson m'pce that I found too small for low range tuba work. The EEB Bessons of the time had a smaller receiver than standard tubas, and so did that m'pce. It fit a stock bs. tbn receiver quite well. The m'pce  was not too good above 2nd partial, but really good for elephantine pedal blatting. I no longer need to use it because...as has been pointed out here...the whole bs. tbn. equipment thing has gotten generally larger. Horns, m'pces...the works.

But if I had to use it?

It's still in my m'pce bag... [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/wink.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/wink.gif[/img]…
by ttf_afugate
Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:04 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Lip bending- good, bad or ugly
Replies: 17
Views: 34919

Lip bending- good, bad or ugly

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=103658.msg1226208#msg1226208]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 27, 2017, 11:36PM[/url][snip]
When we gliss inside of any given partial we are doing "lip bends."
When we...or any other brass player...practices m'pce buzzing, rim buzzing or freebuzzing? Ditto.

Just sayin'...maybe the benefits of "lip bends" have to do with finding out how to play in the real center of the relatively fixed pitch of a valved instrument. rombonists can do "lip bends" by playing a note that sounds good and then moving the slide in any direction w/in that partial...or even into other, contiguous partials...while trying to keep a good sound.
[snip]

Perhaps there is some benefit to be gained (maybe embouchure building?) by bending and forcing the horn to play a different note than it wants to slot. [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/dontknow.gif[/img] At least I gather that from my trumpet player friends. 

--Andy in OKC
by ttf_bigbassbone1
Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:47 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Lip bending- good, bad or ugly
Replies: 17
Views: 34919

Lip bending- good, bad or ugly

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=103658.msg1226208#msg1226208]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 27, 2017, 11:36PM[/url]Just a quick word about slide trombonists and lip bends:

When we gliss inside of any given partial we are doing "lip bends."
When we...or any other brass player...practices m'pce buzzing, rim buzzing or freebuzzing? Ditto.

Just sayin'...maybe the benefits of "lip bends" have to do with finding out how to play in the real center of the relatively fixed pitch of a valved instrument. rombonists can do "lip bends" by playing a note that sounds good and then moving the slide in any direction w/in that partial...or even into other, contiguous partials...while trying to keep a good sound.

Not that you shouldn't try them...try everything and use what works. But be sure to understand what you are trying. I actually have what I call an "establishing exercise" that is essentially "lip bending/glissing/going over partials in both directions from a given note. When the tone changes...the feel, the blow...that is where your original setting is beginning to stop working well. Then yu practice hrough that range from range where you started.

Again...just sayin'...


This is exactly why I found lip…
by ttf_MikeyBonez
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:30 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists
Topic: Returning from Focal Dystonia
Replies: 8
Views: 26276

Returning from Focal Dystonia

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=104212.msg1230832#msg1230832]Quote from: sabutin on Jan 29, 2018, 09:55AM[/url]I have written here often about "Focal Dystonia" and brass players. I believe it to be way over-diagnosed. The player in that video? He has simply lost his timing. He doesn't set his embouchure before he blows, thus the air sound as he finds and sets his embouchure. There are other videos on Youtube of brass players who have a true muscular quiver in their chops when they try to play. If you want to label that as focal dystonia I have no objection, but this player has lost the habitual, reflexive timing that is necessary to start a note...probably for long enough to also have lost some of the strength in his embouchure musculature as well.

That is a very insightful and plausible counterpoint.  [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/clever.gif[/img]
by ttf_Paul Martin
Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:59 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Practice Break / Polls
Topic: Rosolino vs the rest
Replies: 168
Views: 418779

Rosolino vs the rest

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=35772.msg494478#msg494478]Quote from: sabutin on Oct 31, 2007, 06:34AM[/url]Who knows?

It always made me kinda nervous to hear it, that's for sure. Really. The reason that I so prefer the styles of people like Teagarden, Dorsey, Trummy Young, Urbie, J.J. and Jimmy Knepper to those of say Rosolino and Fontana is because of the relatively uninterrupted elegance and cleanliness of the former's lines. Even when they DID play embellishments, it was somehow integral to the melody and unexpected rather than a repeated interjection like someone saying "Y'know what I mean?" 20 times a sentence.

[...]

When I hear that hiccup thing, I just turn off. Always have. I do not care HOW difficult it is. It's still a hiccup.


Amen;  there's a Teagarden recording, might be "Saints," where he plays this amazing lip slur across 4 partials at a blistering pace, in good time, in tune, and the effect in amazing, but I never heard him play anything like that ever again, so he could play all sorts of incredibly technical things, but chose not to.


by ttf_anonymous
Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:14 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Practice Break / Polls
Topic: Rosolino vs the rest
Replies: 168
Views: 418779

Rosolino vs the rest

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=35772.msg673693#msg673693]Quote from: macree01 on Oct 17, 2009, 08:59PM[/url]
BTW Sabutin your an idiot, I bet your so called "young" players that you speak of dream of playing what Frank does. to quote you "I bet on it".


Okay now, this sort of name calling is not acceptable in the forum. Be nice.  [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/mad.gif[/img]
by ttf_baileyman
Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:56 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Practice Break / Polls
Topic: Rosolino vs the rest
Replies: 168
Views: 418779

Rosolino vs the rest

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=35772.msg673933#msg673933]Quote from: sabutin on Oct 19, 2009, 09:56AM[/url]...
If we are going to allow ourselves to be driven into discussions about musicians by their obsessed fanboys, let us at least discuss the music on some sort of real, articulate level. Of course Frank Rosolino and Carl Fontana played their asses off. But why is there a whole school of trombonists...a dominant school in terms of the last several generations of  jazz players...that doesn't really relate to their playing in terms of physical or conceptual approach?

There's a good topic!
...

Indeed.  I really can't understand what that whole school of trombonists is thinking!   [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/evil.gif[/img]

Really, I listen to and enjoy and learn from all the greats, but some appeal more than others.  That doesn't make a difference in greatness, though. 

Not all styles of the greats may be accessible to all ambitious players.  I find Frank's style impossible.  Ray Anderson's, too.  Among other greats.  Some styles are accessible, even to me.  It gives me great happiness to…
by ttf_anonymous
Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:33 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Practice Break / Polls
Topic: Rosolino vs the rest
Replies: 168
Views: 418779

Rosolino vs the rest

I dont give a crap, You dont bash Rosolino and get away with it, and Sabutin was definatley bashing Frank. Frank is like Mozart, you dont have to like him, but to not acknowledge his awesomeness is CRAZY, and I repeat CRAZY!!! If someone was just sharing an opinion that would be fine. If someone was just saying, oh I dont really care for the guys style then yes that would be totally fine I would have no problem. But I know for a fact that several people on this post, NOT 1 BUT MANY, have been bashing Frank like he was stick in the mud. I SAY NO!! I will not stand for this, especially since Frank has inspired so many people around the WORLD.
by ttf_Euphanasia
Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:52 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Practice Break / Polls
Topic: Rosolino vs the rest
Replies: 168
Views: 418779

Rosolino vs the rest

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=35772.msg493346#msg493346]Quote from: sabutin on Oct 26, 2007, 07:43AM[/url]Give me a break.

I got 8 right HERE!!!

Jack Teagarden

Lawrence Brown

Trummy Young

Tommy Dorsey

J. J. Johnson

Curtis Fuller

Urbie Green

Jimmy Knepper




Ah, but can these guys incorporate yodeling into their scat singing? Well?
by ttf_robcat2075
Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:39 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Practice Break / Polls
Topic: Diversity on TTF
Replies: 46
Views: 68846

Diversity on TTF

I just noticed this...

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=93600.msg1144445#msg1144445]Quote from: sabutin on Jul 07, 2016, 10:44PM[/url]QuoteThere are several people here venting their rage that "diversity" is a concept or even mentioned.

There must be some personal experience where your life or career has been derailed unfairly because of diversity?No.

I personally have defied the "diversity" meme on every level of my career. I have played in primarily white bands, primarily black bands, primarily latin bands...and...best of all, bet on it...totally mixed bands for almost 50 years in NYC at the highest levels of accomplishment. All I have to say is that it is the totally mixed bands...the bands that hire according to only one quality (great musicality)...are the ones where the real thing happens.

QuoteLet's hear them.  Show me there's more to this that the word salad we've heard so far.

Names, places... give us some facts about how you personally have been affected.
Go look at my [url=http://samburtis.com/]resume[/url].

Why would I have any reason on earth to complain because of how I have "personally...been affected?"
by ttf_chipolah
Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:04 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Practice Break / Polls
Topic: Diversity on TTF
Replies: 46
Views: 68846

Diversity on TTF

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=93600.msg1160270#msg1160270]Quote from: sabutin on Oct 11, 2016, 09:10AM[/url]Me too.

Exactly that.

Thank you.

S.
SECONDED !!!!
by ttf_badger
Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:00 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Practice Break / Polls
Topic: Diversity on TTF
Replies: 46
Views: 68846

Diversity on TTF

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=93600.msg1144246#msg1144246]Quote from: sabutin on Jul 06, 2016, 11:49AM[/url]You can talk all you want about "diversity" here, but where the rubber meets the road...where the work is..."diversity" doesn't mean anything. It's just another politically correct buzzword. Including token minorities...no matter how they are defined...in the mainstream workplace does nothing but placate the bureaucratic hive mind that invented "political correctness" in the first place.

Let us instead speak of "equality." An equal chance for everyone...at the earliest stages of their life and forever afterward...to excel at what they do best. We can blah blah blah about "diversity" just as do the politicians, but when it gets down to actually producing systems that guarantee "equality," they all run for the hills.

Look at the ITA for all you need to know about large organizations. I was just at the ITF in NYC. Now...I know for a personally observed fact that there are literally thousands of quite seriously gifted, hard-working trombonists all over the world who are not visually identifiable as being primarily of European ascent. Where were they at that gathering? A rough visual estimate would put them at about less than 1% there. I also know that there are not many female trombonists in the mix, Why? Are we…
by ttf_BillO
Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:02 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Practice Break / Polls
Topic: Diversity on TTF
Replies: 46
Views: 68846

Diversity on TTF

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=93600.msg1144246#msg1144246]Quote from: sabutin on Jul 06, 2016, 11:49AM[/url] I also know that there are not many female trombonists in the mix, Why? Are we not living in a PC world? That's what the media has been telling us for several decades. If "diversity" worked as it is presently presented, would females not have the same 50-50 chance as males to excel at playing the trombone? The fact that a large number of them have defied those odds argues pretty strongly against the possibility that they simply do not have the innate talents to learn the instrument. So...where are they?

Good question.  We recently did a series of performances with or in conjunction with the grade schools and high schools in the area.  Some 40% of those school age trombonists were female.  My daughter, when she went to HS was one of a 3-female trombone section in her year.  I know of only 2 adult female trombonists in the same area.  Women certainly try out trombones when they are younger, based on these numbers, but they just do not carry on with it. [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/dontknow.gif[/img]
by ttf_The Bone Ranger
Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:44 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications, and Maintenance
Topic: Wider slide or continue bending shanks?
Replies: 38
Views: 13274

Wider slide or continue bending shanks?

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=97014.msg1196800#msg1196800]Quote from: sabutin on Jun 03, 2017, 07:07AM[/url]Best of luck to you with this experiment, Andrew. But...I think that you will eventually find that the wider slide does indeed change the playing characteristics of your horn, especially if you are using it as a lead player in fairly aggressive, primarily acoustic big bands.

I don't doubt for a moment that the crook will have an effect. So far, the difference seems nominal, though I've only put in a few hours, and haven't played it in an ensemble yet, either.

I'm betting that the majority of any difference can be overcome now that I am freely able to choose my leadpipe and my mouthpiece. Moving from my 6.5A (with a bent shank - what effect does that have?) to a regular 6 3/4C, for example, is also going to have an effect on the attack, timbre, let alone what various leadpipes bring to the table.

And if I'm wrong? Long term, what is the solution? I'm back to where I was at the beginning of this thread. This way, I'll have something of an answer. For the moment, it seems promising.

Andrew
by ttf_Pre59
Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:03 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
Topic: "Letter M"
Replies: 39
Views: 83900

"Letter M"

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=98054.msg1203636#msg1203636]Quote from: sabutin on Yesterday at 07:32 AM[/url]
It's hard to get people's serious attention with new ideas, and doubly hard when they feel they might be risking their abilities by trying something new.


I couldn't agree more, there's a kind of fear that to discuss a technique that's unfamiliar could be rocking the boat, or creating "ripples in the field".
by ttf_ntap
Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:55 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: My mouthpiece travels
Replies: 31
Views: 9873

My mouthpiece travels

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=100977.msg1202443#msg1202443]Quote from: sabutin on Jul 08, 2017, 07:04AM[/url]Indeed, Nick. But...some players need a shift to get those notes on a small rim. Britt Woodman certainly did. Take a look at the YouTube vid of Britt playing "Hank Cinq" w/Ellington on his 11C/2B equipment. Plain as day.

Totally.  His sound is so great down there though!  Small mouthpieces can still get great sounds in the low range, just wanted to correct the record when Bruce said that.  
....I think we go too big too early in the education process on all parts of equipment, and there is really so much that can be done and gained by using a smaller piece on a smaller horn, even learning how to live with those shifts.

Here's Sonnet to Hank Cinq

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVIxhM8E1WY&ab_channel=DukeEllington-Topic]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVIxhM8E1WY&ab_channel=DukeEllington-Topic[/url]

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=100977.msg1202443#msg1202443]Quote from: sabutin on Jul 08, 2017, 07:04AM[/url]Thus Jimmy Knepper's sole tenor trombone m…
by havard
Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:40 pm
Forum: Hardware / Instruments
Topic: Conn 6h
Replies: 41
Views: 38471

Re: Conn 6h

i own a 65 6h and a Yamaha 891z . the Yamaha has easier respons but a clearly prefer the 6h sound . you can create any sound you want on it .

Excactly what sam Burtis describe in the otj :

"sabutin:
6Hs and other 6H-like horns are a little...drier...sounding than equivalent Kings and Bachs. A little more austere. Strict. Rigorous. I mean that in a good way. Like wines, trombone sounds can have some amount of sweetness...I hear that in King sounds. They can also be very rich...Bach sounds.

Or...they can simply be there. Like Conns.

I went to a thesuarus and searched the words "austere", "strict" and "rigorous".

Here are some of the results that seem to fit:

ascetic, earnest, exacting, formal, hard, inexorable, serious, stringent, unrelenting, exacting, firm, no-nonsense, scrupulous, straight, stringent, tough, accurate, correct, definite, exacting, meticulous, precise, rugged, scrupulous, stern, uncompromising

Like dat.

6Hs do not give easily to the casual listener. No emotional "ooohs" and "aaahs" result from their basic timbre. (Unless of course one is a trombonist and is interested in sound of a certain kind.) Dorsey's "I'm Getting Sentimental Over You" on a 6H rather than on a King? Maybe not quite so popular. Watrous's ballad and vibrato/mic approach on a…
by Kbiggs
Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:37 am
Forum: Hardware / Mouthpieces
Topic: Euph Mouthpiece for Bass Trombone?
Replies: 14
Views: 6648

Re: Euph Mouthpiece for Bass Trombone?

[quote=Burgerbob post_id=71743 time=1543162212 user_id=3131] Use the right tool for the job. [/quote] You beat me to it. (I also remember Sam Burtis “sabutin” when I say it.)
by norbie2018
Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:23 pm
Forum: Hardware / Instruments
Topic: Upper range on medium/large bore vs small bore
Replies: 21
Views: 9124

Re: Upper range on medium/large bore vs small bore

Or it could have been your neck was getting in the way, causing an issue at your chops. Sabutin talked about this on the old forum and it was a problem for me until I realized what was going on. That doesn't mean the high register on certain horn cannot be problematic, it's just something to be aware of.