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AFTER   BEFORE 
by ttf_blast
Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:34 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Replies: 1683
Views: 1293522

Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=23254.msg773889#msg773889]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 11, 2010, 02:12AM[/url]I don't think it's a rim shape thing, Chris. Size does matter, in this instance. Tenor players who double on bass usually have trouble balancing their embouchure through the minute shifts that start in the  general  [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/BassClef.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/Line1.gif[/img] ->  [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/BassClef.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/Line0.gif[/img] area and get more serious around trigger D through to the lower pedal tones. A larger diameter rim/bigger cup seems to allow them...us, and me for sure...to make allowances for our relative lack of precision and balance down there w/out having to practice…
by ttf_boneagain
Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:11 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Replies: 1683
Views: 1293522

Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=23254.msg702990#msg702990]Quote from: sabutin on Feb 23, 2010, 07:30AM[/url]Thanks Chris. Will do.

Sam

Sam,
A fairly new option, and at least nominally a 1 1/2G!  I just came home to find a Kelly stainless steel had arrived.  I'm impressed enough with it right now that I'm going to give it a few weeks of workout.  Initial impression: the Duo Gravis likes it, and so does my Benge 190.  Can't say I care for my tone on F at the top of the treble clef, or that I'd be reliable there as a night wore on, but initially this feels more solid up there than my Rath B1 1/2W or genuwine Bach.  Doesn't seem to me like it should be possible.  I can feel much more vibration on the outside of the mouthpiece cup with my index finger than I thought would be the case with a wide register response.


So far the very bottom of the DG seems on a par with the Rath, and much better than the Bach.   

Might be worth a trial period from Kelly to see if it works on the Shires for what you describe.


by ttf_bassclef
Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:04 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Replies: 1683
Views: 1293522

Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=23254.msg702718#msg702718]Quote from: sabutin on Feb 22, 2010, 09:02AM[/url]You real bass players out there...any suggestions? I already own a number of Bach pieces...1 1/4G, 1 G, a couple of pretty good 1 1/2Gs...plus a Schilke 59 that I do not much like at all. (I have never played a Schilke or Schilke derivative on any horn that worked for me, truth be told. Too hooty.)
S.

I suggest the Laskey 85MD, though it is a Schilke derivative. You mention that you're playing on the the Jeff Reynolds now, and this one is in the same ballpark measurements wise. I tried both several years ago and settled on the Laskey.

The 85MD has less mass than the Reynolds, which I believe makes it behave differently (better for me) up high. That's actually one of the reasons I chose it vs. the Reynolds. I don't do a lot of improv, but I do a lot of big band playing. For me, the Laskey just handles better above the staff and blends very well with the small tenors. I've found this to be true in softer ballad-type lines and especially when some punch/bite is necessary.

I also find it to be quite versatile. I…
by ttf_slideorama
Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:17 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Replies: 1683
Views: 1293522

Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=23254.msg436871#msg436871]Quote from: sabutin on Mar 02, 2007, 10:10AM[/url]
...

But...I just sat in a little room with three french horn players, a good tenor trombonist and the great bass trombonist George Flynn. They are the brass section of the B'way production of Lion King and I went to watch the show because I am going to be subbing on George's bass trombone/tuba chair. They are in a room by themselves and receive the conductor's wavings and some sort of dull representation of what is going on in the pit and stage by TV monitor.

Why? Don't ask me. It's Broadway.

Anyway...I'm sitting there, and George is popping bass notes so hard on his beautiful old gold plated (converted to dependent double valves) .565 single bore 70H that I'm glad I remembered to bring my earplugs. Really. The attacks HURT sometimes. I'm talking trigger pedals here, not just the usual trigger notes and middle pedals.

On what?

A 1 1/2G.

...

S.

Posts like this make me grin from ear to ear, seriously.  …
by ttf_blast
Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:41 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Replies: 1683
Views: 1293522

Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=23254.msg436871#msg436871]Quote from: sabutin on Mar 02, 2007, 10:10AM[/url]Who in their right mind?

Not me...I'm not a good enough bass trombone player.

But...I just sat in a little room with three french horn players, a good tenor trombonist and the great bass trombonist George Flynn. They are the brass section of the B'way production of Lion King and I went to watch the show because I am going to be subbing on George's bass trombone/tuba chair. They are in a room by themselves and receive the conductor's wavings and some sort of dull representation of what is going on in the pit and stage by TV monitor.

Why? Don't ask me. It's Broadway.

Anyway...I'm sitting there, and George is popping bass notes so hard on his beautiful old gold plated (converted to dependent double valves) .565 single bore 70H that I'm glad I remembered to bring my my earplugs. Really. The attacks HURT sometimes. I'm talking trigger pedals here, not just the usual trigger notes and middle pedals.

On what?

A 1 1/2G.

PLUS an absolutely gorgeous mid-register sound and relative ease up…
by ttf_Slidennis
Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:44 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: Theory---Largest..or Smallest?
Replies: 211
Views: 104105

Theory---Largest..or Smallest?

I went all the way from a Bach 12C for 15 years to a Denis Wick 2NAL...  with my Bass.
When the muscles of the lips and the belly are sthrengtening, I think that the mpc will be the one that suits the trombone and not your face any more...  (Sabutin - Sam Burtis - says so...) Excepted for the size of the rim, maybe...  3G for me at the moment...

And if you like large rims with fairly shallow cups and large backbores, the only way to go is custom...

Doug Elliott and the likes...  (Warburton, Stomvi, etc...)

My take on it...
by ttf_anonymous
Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:55 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: If you could have only 3 horns...
Replies: 229
Views: 113585

If you could have only 3 horns...

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=27922.msg426766#msg426766]Quote from: sabutin on Jan 28, 2007, 06:34AM[/url]I have tried...to no avail...to interest several major makers in producing a full line of TIS horns over the past 15 years. I am happy that some people are doing so, and cannot wait to try them.

I understand the reluctance of various companies to invest the requisite time and money in the design and manufacture process of a new (old) idea. You KNOW that the instruments will have to be tweaked and tested; you know that the trombone world is quite conservative...especially the major money markets for high end horns, universities and orchestral players...and you know that even if a major company hit a solid home run on say an orchestral tenor, smaller tenor and bass in TIS form, it would STILL take years for those designs to filter down through the ranks from us horn crazies to "Dad, I need a TIS horn so hat I can blend well at Juilliard."

Or wherever...

I predict that if someone does so...I mean hit a real home run, produce horns that are the equal of (if not superior to) the classic '30s Burkle Conn designs...they will take over the high end of the market in much the way that Edwards…
by ttf_greenbean
Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:02 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg992117#msg992117]Quote from: sabutin on Jan 19, 2014, 09:29PM[/url]I don't generally like to blow my own horn...there's a little joke in there somewhere...but I recently ran across a YouTube post of a 1990 concert that Tito Puente's band did in Chicago for a real-deal, roots Latin crowd. "Tribute To Benny Moré" is the name of the piece, and it is a barn burner!!! Check out the rhythm section and the singer!!! And then...check me out too at about 4:38. A long, long solo...too long, but Tito did that sometimes when the groove was on and it was on that night for sure. People often ask why I became so enamored of NYC latin playing and why I dedicated so much of my life to it. This is why. "Double Euphoria Heaven!!!" as the great comedian/prophet Lord Buckley so aptly described such events. Bet on it. The power!!!

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0Ylb2jgZ48&feature=em-share_video_user]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0Ylb2jgZ48&feature=em-share_video_user[/url]

Enjoy. I did. Bet on that as well.

Later...

S.
by ttf_Malec Heermans
Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:55 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg992117#msg992117]Quote from: sabutin on Jan 19, 2014, 09:29PM[/url]I don't generally like to blow my own horn...there's a little joke in there somewhere...but I recently ran across a YouTube post of a 1990 concert that Tito Puente's band did in Chicago for a real-deal, roots Latin crowd. "Tribute To Benny Moré" is the name of the piece, and it is a barn burner!!! Check out the rhythm section and the singer!!! And then...check me out too at about 4:38. A long, long solo...too long, but Tito did that sometimes when the groove was on and it was on that night for sure. People often ask why I became so enamored of NYC latin playing and why I dedicated so much of my life to it. This is why. "Double Euphoria Heaven!!!" as the great comedian/prophet Lord Buckley so aptly described such events. Bet on it. The power!!!

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0Ylb2jgZ48&feature=em-share_video_user]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0Ylb2jgZ48&feature=em-share_video_user[/url]

Enjoy. I did. Bet on that as well.

Later...

S.
by ttf_ntap
Sat May 19, 2012 1:38 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg881645#msg881645]Quote from: sabutin on May 19, 2012, 06:55AM[/url]I don't normally post my own stuff, but I hadn't heard this in years and just ran into it. A great band, great writing...Louie Ramirez, I believe...and a great singer...Tito Allen. 1976. Conga soloist-Papo Pepin. "Por Eso" was the hit from the album "Feliz Y Dichoso." The height of the NYC "Our Latin Thing" years. I even like my own solo, and I don't say that very often. It was a good day for all.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_FMMvePwpc&feature=share]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_FMMvePwpc&feature=share[/url]

Enjoy. NY was burning!!!

S.

P.S. Check out the pianist!!! Driving the whole band. Charlie Palmieri, I think. Pure power.

Sam,

This **** really swings!  Love it.
by ttf_Titus62
Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:55 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg863104#msg863104]Quote from: sabutin on Feb 11, 2012, 01:10PM[/url]That's Larry Farrell.

S.
Didn't recognize him.  The only picture of Larry Farrell I've seen is on these MJO u-tube posts where his appearance is considerably different.  I wonder what the dates were of those two different performances?

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWxz1Wey3Rc&feature=related]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWxz1Wey3Rc&feature=related[/url]
by ttf_John Beers Jr.
Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:56 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg852155#msg852155]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 12, 2011, 04:12AM[/url]I hate to boast but...I have said here numerous times that The Mambo Legends Orchestra is the equal of any large American-style ensemble ever come to down the pike, the great Basie bands included. Here's my evidence on YouTube. Complete with real production values and minus only a live audience.
 
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAfYYAafQKg]Here[/url] and [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GJsCWNoQ5E]here[/url].

Wow! Thanks for the links, Sam, this is some fantastic stuff that I would have missed out on were it not for your post.
by ttf_Malec Heermans
Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:40 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg852155#msg852155]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 12, 2011, 04:12AM[/url]Frankie Vazquez!!!

You can say that again. Holy smokes.

La Orquesta feels so so good. Swinging and relaxed like that great Machito at the Crescendo album.

Thanks Sam!
by ttf_ntap
Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:27 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg852211#msg852211]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 12, 2011, 09:49AM[/url]Thank you, Nick. I am sorry that you couldn't attend. To tell you the truth, when I left Marty's I was a little skeptical about how the video was going to come out. It didn't feel as good as it sounds...deadish room, cramped quarters, what looked like some serious confusion in the tech department (Was I wrong there!!!), some restiveness among a few band members for any number of reasons...but Marty's good heart and a great, working band with a 30+ year history (including the time many of us spent with Tito Puente) pulled it off.

See ya somewhere...

Sam

Wish I could have, too, I was bummed I couldn't.  I remember talking to you about this the other day, but it seems like it really worked out.

Quote...Marty's good heart and a great, working band with a 30+ year history...
A great combination. 



by ttf_SilverBone
Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:06 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg787370#msg787370]Quote from: sabutin on Feb 06, 2011, 11:05PM[/url]They play real fast?


Some of it is indeed real fast, but they also spend a fair amount of time goofing around pretty slowly.  I listened to the whole hour.
by ttf_anonymous
Thu May 13, 2010 11:37 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg721846#msg721846]Quote from: sabutin on Apr 27, 2010, 05:49PM[/url]Dave Taylor's introductory bass trombone solo with The Mingus Big Band on my reorchestration and (slight) rearrangement of Mingus's The Shoes Of The Fishermans's Wife Are Some Jiveass Slippers.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtU0yCX96AU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtU0yCX96AU[/url]

Also...listen to how well in tune his tuba playing is later on. He is a master musician.

Trpt.solo: Jack Walrath

Piano solo: The inimitable...and sadly, passed from this good earth...John Hicks.

Art Baron sitting next to Dave looking strangely...happy ( [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/smile.gif[/img]<…
by ttf_Graham Martin
Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:00 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg709078#msg709078]Quote from: sabutin on Mar 16, 2010, 05:08AM[/url]Until "jazz" finds a way to reconnect w/its audience on a physical and emotional level...and I do not mean negative emotions...the discussions about "How can we keep jazz alive?" will continue.

"Jazz" was alive when it communicated directly to the bodies and feelings of its audience. It has largely lost that connection, and as a result it is withering away as we speak. I am not saying that there are not great "jazz" musicians out there. There are more than ever, really. Fine players are coming out of conservatories all over the world every year, burning with great ideas and talent, conversant in the entire history of the music.

Except its emotional and physical history.

The sort of thing that you can hear on this clip happened in the dancehalls of Storyville, the clubs of Chicago and Kansas City, in  swing era dances and concerts all over America and in the neighborhood jazz clubs of cities across the country right into the '70s. It's not about idiom, it is about the flow between the audience and the performers.

Check it out.

And then...figure out how to do it.

There…
by ttf_anonymous
Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:12 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg709078#msg709078]Quote from: sabutin on Mar 16, 2010, 05:08AM[/url]Hi all...

I just received a DVD from a friend who videoed a Mambo Legends gig at the Julia de Burgos Cultural Center in Spanish Harlem last year. This is the band formerly known as The Latin Giants of Jazz (Don't ask...business is a b*tch sometimes.) that is comprised of the best latin jazz players in NYC, people who played with Tito Puente, Machito, Tito Rodriguez, Tipica 73, Cojunto Libre...the works. It is the single best big band in any idiom with which I have ever played in many respects...like playing with the Basie Band in the mid-50s. That good.

Anyway...in the DVD is a moment that I would like to share w/y'all. Julia de Burgos Cultural Center on Lexington Ave. and 106th St. is a place where NYC's serious latin dancers and music listeners come to hear the real thing, up close and personal. No glitz, no hype, not much of a sound system, but the groove is on there from the time you walk in until the gig is over, and there are a lot of people trying to document it.

On this night one of the things that happened is the three trombonists…
by ttf_josh roseman
Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:34 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg694843#msg694843]Quote from: sabutin on Jan 20, 2010, 08:20AM[/url]At the risk of being accused of self-promotion...an activity in which I probably should have indulged more during my career, not less...

I never got that. just spread music...

beautiful clips. I love the emotion, daring and warmth in your playing.
the video mixes never convey what's really happening dynamically, that's an entirely different layer also.
by ttf_ctingle
Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:23 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg664902#msg664902]Quote from: sabutin on Sep 07, 2009, 01:13PM[/url]Brookmeyer.

At his greatest.

S.

Thanks Sam!  I'm diggin VJO, today.  How about Luis Bonilla on this??!!  and Billy Drewes!!:

[url=http://www.youtube.com/user/VanguardJazzOrch#play/uploads/0/GIeOYZomiHU]http://www.youtube.com/user/VanguardJazzOrch#play/uploads/0/GIeOYZomiHU[/url]


by ttf_anonymous
Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:06 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg648445#msg648445]Quote from: sabutin on Jul 03, 2009, 12:56AM[/url]I beg to differ. I could put two or three entirely different bands together...more, really...in NYC that would be able (given a regular weekly gig for a period of months) be able to play on the same level of musicianship and creativity as that band. In fact...I already did, once. The original Mingus Big Band. (Listen to the record Mingus Big Band '94...also known as Nostalgia In Times Square...on the Koch label for ample evidence of that statement.) And I will again if I can ever surmount the financial barriers. Plus...that's just in New York City. Witness the threads about the recent ITF in Denmark for a look at what is happening in Europe, and I am sure all over the rest of the world as well. The fact of the matter is that there has been a explosion of talent and achievement in this music over the past 20 or 30 years. Only the business structure of the recording industry, academia and the media stops the evidence of this explosion from being more widely disseminated. It is just so damned hard to find the gigs and produce the records. The guys in that band were the inheritors of a situation where closely related music had been within recent memory truly…
by ttf_griffinben
Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:12 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg641355#msg641355]Quote from: sabutin on Jun 02, 2009, 05:48AM[/url]Yeah. Joel is a cross-idiomatic master. His stuff seems to work anywhere. I haven't seen him around NYC in ages though. I don't know where he is.

S.
I just heard that Joel passed away, June 20th.  He was only 53 years old.  Very sad news.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Helleny]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Helleny[/url]
by ttf_janettem
Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:35 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg632123#msg632123]Quote from: sabutin on Apr 26, 2009, 10:06AM[/url]Buudy's set was almost always attacking the soloists. That was his thing. This time it was just physicalized a little. Playing a solo at tempo with him was like trying to sit down to a good meal in a confined room full of starving, crazed ferrets. Every time you tried go take a breath, he'd "fill", and out the window would fly any space or grace. The only reason he didn't do it on that Norwegian Wood thing posted earlier here was that his hot licks didn't work in three-based meters so he whad to...reluctantly...revert to making music.

He could make music .

He just didn't.

Too bad.

He coulda been a contendah.

Instead he became the punchline to a bunch of nasty jokes.

What a waste of talent!!!

S.

I heard he wasn't a very nice person at all.

Especially to other musicians,not just in his band. [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys…
by ttf_zemry
Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:29 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg629499#msg629499]Quote from: sabutin on Apr 16, 2009, 10:41AM[/url]What do they feed them?

Money, among other things. Along with position and power.

Plus of course a shipload with genetically predetermined talent and  a fine musical upbringing and education.

I go along with the talent, musical upbringing and education part. However, they weren't born with money, position or power. Under any circumstances, money, position nor power can't teach one to play that beautifully.

I was there for that solo. It was a "wow" moment!
by ttf_anonymous
Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:14 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg608008#msg608008]Quote from: sabutin on Jan 19, 2009, 09:38PM[/url] people wandering in with no idea of waht a "Latin" band is. Joe turned the key, the band started up and it was like the second set of the greatest gig you could ever imagine.

Unbelievable. All of these rock and tech heads walking in to go play with their digital dinguses and dropping their jaws.

Sam,

There were a few of us there that morning who know what a "Latin" band is, and who showed up early specifically to see you guys.  The band was fantastic, that's no lie.  I have a pet peeve about percussion players, as so many bands use guys who think they can play, but shouldn't... These guys could PLAY! I was also fortunate enough to be right in front of Jimmy Bosch when he came up for his solo, what a sound!  Great time all around.

Gary
by ttf_anonymous
Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:10 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg604683#msg604683]Quote from: sabutin on Jan 08, 2009, 09:32AM[/url]The whole area north of Greece...Albania, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Serbia, Romania...it's like the Cuba of that area. That's where the interesting stuff is happening.

Relatively isolated and thus free to develop in a more organic manner.

Yup.

Watch.

S.

I'm amazed at how many of the musician friends to whom I've passed this along have called it "utter crap" and "horrible"... 

I'm stunned, really...  utterly, horribly stunned.

eh...

Wes Funderburk
[url=http://www.funderbone.com]www.funderbone.com[/url]
by ttf_anonymous
Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:28 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg603192#msg603192]Quote from: sabutin on Jan 03, 2009, 11:41AM[/url]I just ran into this Youtube vid. It's not about "trombone"...it's about music.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn_-Y-eD0d0&feature=related]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn_-Y-eD0d0&feature=related[/url]


Most of the trombone stuff that has been posted here? Not within 1000 miles of this.



Sam, who among the younger generation of trombonists (not necessarily on YouTube) comes within, say, 500 miles of this? 

Honestly and seriously, though.  Who have you seen, heard and experienced who really take the music to new heights?...in your opinion, of course.  In New York there are many, I'm sure, but around the world there MUST be guys and gals who are making this kind of magic happen on a nightly basis. 

Just pickin' your brain a bit.

Wes Funderburk
[url=http://www.funderbone.com]www.funderbone.com[/url]
 
by ttf_WaltTrombone
Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:56 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg602755#msg602755]Quote from: sabutin on Jan 02, 2009, 08:04AM[/url]Larry, Curly, Moe and Joe?

Whoever they are...close your eyes and listen to the "I've Got You Under My Skin" soli at about 2:16 if the vid.

Listen and understand the true function of a section slide vibrato and moderate-sized equipment in a fairly dense sonic situation. They do not have to play loud in order to get enough edge to be heard. Tommy Dorsey's children. Bet on it.

Also...notice the posture. The bells are not pointed at the floor. And...do you see any individual mikes? Nope. Yet every player in that orchestra can be heard. Betcha there aren't more than two or three mikes total. Betcha that's why they called them "soundstages", too. Projection without excessive force. Much to be learned there, corny or not.

Later...

S.



Oh Yeah! Only a little corny, considering when it's from. I dug it a LOT, just pointing out the slide vibrato because I like vibrato. (Using it and learning about it.) The vibrato from the trombones and trumpets kinda sounds dated today, but in the context of the day, was state of…
by ttf_anonymous
Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:40 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg602454#msg602454]Quote from: sabutin on Jan 01, 2009, 12:23AM[/url]You say "I'm sure they are fine players at 250 or 280, but at 320 they sound pretty much like me, which is not a high compliment."

Well...what are you doing to get up there?

Shedding in private?

Ain't gonna work.

You have to put your mortal ass on the line.

Day in and day out.
But that's the point.  I have no desire to play at that speed.  Even when it does work, which is extraordinarily rare, the audience doesn't really know what they have heard, other than a flurry of notes.  To my tastes, it is musical masturbation when it gets to that extreme.  I am much more interested in the development of musical lines with some real meat, and I accept that I will never be able to accomplish that with 8th notes at 320.  I'm OK with that.  And I'm also OK with the fact that some people will always prefer to hear that firestorm of fast notes at the expense of a more developed musical line.  

Tastes differ.  I have no problem with that.  I do have a problem with…
by ttf_stanzabone
Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:49 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg497453#msg497453]Quote from: sabutin on Nov 12, 2007, 05:32AM[/url]Time.

Time time time time time time time time time time time time time time.

Jo Jones!!!

Basie!!!

Freddie Green!!!

O my Lord!!!

Time time time time time time time time time time time time time time.

Why did these people play so well?

How could you NOT play well with time like that going on?

Jimmy Rushing (The heavy-set man who is not playing...ever listen to HIM sing?) has better time just STANDING THERE than do most musicians today in full swing.

What he said... This is why the Basie band will, for me, always represent the pinnacle of what's possible (along with that other gentleman named Ellington) and why Freddie Green is the greatest Jazz Guitarist of all time, no matter how much I like listening to Herb Ellis take a solo!

Amen, brother.
by ttf_anonymous
Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:08 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg474321#msg474321]Quote from: sabutin on Aug 01, 2007, 12:18PM[/url]FINALLY!!!

Some real trombone stuff.

S.

Man, what a good way to practice your slide technique!

Rich
by ttf_anonymous
Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:12 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg434933#msg434933]Quote from: sabutin on Feb 24, 2007, 10:36AM[/url]LORD ALMIGHTY!!!!

I had NO IDEA that was made into a video. Thank you SO much!!!

Can't find Cleve Pozar...haven't been able to do a thing with that CD.

All the trombones...that's all me. Played a small axe (Conn Burkle 32H), a .525/.547 and bass. I wrote the chart, too.

Drums? Cleve Pozar...one of my oldest friends...on Santeria ritual drums called bata.

Nice to hear it again.

John Coltrane and West African-influenced Caribbean ritual drum styles.

Not a bad place to start, eh?

Thanks again, slideorama.

I owe you one.

Sam

Beautiful, Sam.  One of my favorite tunes.  It just has a vibe that is undeniable.  I did an orchestral arrangement when I was in grad school. 

Man, your playing in the upper register reminds me of Slide on his octet recordings.  Very powerful and solid, but still sweet.  I mean that with the greatest respect for both of you.  Glad we could all check that out.

Now…
by ttf_ctingle
Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:07 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg434910#msg434910]Quote from: sabutin on Feb 24, 2007, 08:02AM[/url]No.

I missed the service. Had to work.

What did he say?

S.

From Lois Gilbert at Jazzcorner.com to radio DJ's, programmers on behalf of Pat Metheny....sorry for the font translating problems....beautiful message rings through:

Hello everyone

I wanted to thank you all who played the music of Michael Brecker Tuesday
evening.  Just like Michael, the tribute was full of love and gratitude to have
Michael in our lives,  whether through his music or just through his presence
in our lives.  Tonight, Pat Metheny emailed me, and asked if I might be able to
post his talk after his solo performance at the tribute of the tune he wrote
for esp for Michael: "Every Day (I Thank You)" which can be found on Pat's ECM
CD "80/81"

If you are inclined to play it - you might also want to read what Pat said
after his performance:

"The piece I just played was written many years ago, especially for Mike. We
played it together lots of…
by ttf_ctingle
Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:21 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: More YouTube Trombonists
Replies: 2499
Views: 2107136

More YouTube Trombonists

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg434852#msg434852]Quote from: sabutin on Feb 23, 2007, 09:02PM[/url]Andrae Murchison...maybe 20 years old?

Just up from Atlanta. Young, but BIG ears. Playing the real stuff. Wide open to everything. Big horn, big sound player.

Jose Davila...been around a while. Plays tenor, bass + tuba. A FINE, expressive soloist on all of them. In all idioms.

Jeff Bush...went to Manhattan School of music. Fairly young, but has roots that go right back to the swing players. Plays the HELL out of the instrument.

Nate Mayland...graduated from Indiana. Plays 2 1/2 and 3 octave lines. On a 3B. Right on up from the second partial. Makes it sound easy. Connected!!! I have NO idea how he does it, except that's what he practices and he practices a lot. Great notes, too.

Deion Tucker...a real, grown-up young mainstream jazz player. Hears everything he plays, and it all works.

I mean...there are others.

These are just the ones with whom I have played over the last few months.

LOTS of others.

NY is ridiculous.

Later...

S.
…
by ttf_robcat2075
Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:30 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Trombonist who fly with trombone on a regular basis--attn!!!!
Replies: 375
Views: 166831

Trombonist who fly with trombone on a regular basis--attn!!!!

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=32293.msg963057#msg963057]Quote from: sabutin on Jul 19, 2013, 09:50AM[/url]If this is true...a link would be nice, robcat...

I will grant you that it is a bit confusing.  Here is the text of[url=http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr658/text] the whole bill[/url].

If you skim it you will note that this FAA Modernization Act covers many more issues than musical instruments.  It's possible that getting some of the other, more critical (safety?) items right has taken priority over our particular interest.

Near the top of the bill is this broad direction:

QuoteSEC. 3. EFFECTIVE DATE.

    Except as otherwise expressly provided, this Act and the amendments made by this Act shall take effect on the date of enactment of this Act.

However, many of the subsections, including the musical instrument subsection (quoted below) have one of those "otherwise expressly provided" time limits allowed (bolded below)

Quote    (a) In General- Subchapter I of chapter 417 is amended by adding at the end the following:

    ‘Sec. 41724. Musical instruments

        ‘(a) In General…
by ttf_Torobone
Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:53 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Trombonist who fly with trombone on a regular basis--attn!!!!
Replies: 375
Views: 166831

Trombonist who fly with trombone on a regular basis--attn!!!!

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=32293.msg776160#msg776160]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 24, 2010, 04:30PM[/url][img]http://i.imgur.com/jUC6C.jpg[/img]???

S.

P.S. Sorry...I couldn't resist.

I just realized how appropriate this picture is. I heard Dizzy came up with this idea after he checked his horn!   [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/pant.gif[/img]
by ttf_sdjazz
Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:09 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Trombonist who fly with trombone on a regular basis--attn!!!!
Replies: 375
Views: 166831

Trombonist who fly with trombone on a regular basis--attn!!!!

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=32293.msg776160#msg776160]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 24, 2010, 04:30PM[/url][img]http://i.imgur.com/jUC6C.jpg[/img]???

S.

P.S. Sorry...I couldn't resist.

Merry Christmas

If they start selling those cheaply, my brother will has an excuse to play his trumpet into the ground. [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/mad.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/mad.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/mad.gif[/img]
by ttf_donn
Thu May 06, 2010 4:33 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Trombonist who fly with trombone on a regular basis--attn!!!!
Replies: 375
Views: 166831

Trombonist who fly with trombone on a regular basis--attn!!!!

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=32293.msg723743#msg723743]Quote from: sabutin on May 04, 2010, 08:14AM[/url]Plus...since it is never piled on a some kind of teetering luggage carrier, it is less likely to fall off onto ther tarmac and get run over by a drug-fueled worker on overtime and steroids.

But you have to wonder how it's going to go from the gate, down to the ground, and back up into the plane's storage.  They might carry it, but if you look at the scaffold they climb up and down, it has a narrow slide by the stairs.  How fast will your horn be going when it gets to the bottom?  What if it falls off the slide?

One of my mistakes was my big case, one of those things with its own stupid wheels.  Baby stroller man looked at that thing and said "I'll carry these baby strollers down the stairs, but that case goes for a ride!" It was damaged like it had fallen at least 12 feet straight down.  So I would say definitely, form fitting case that looks like a trombone, if gate checking.
by ttf_sly fox
Tue May 04, 2010 9:14 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Trombonist who fly with trombone on a regular basis--attn!!!!
Replies: 375
Views: 166831

Trombonist who fly with trombone on a regular basis--attn!!!!

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=32293.msg723743#msg723743]Quote from: sabutin on May 04, 2010, 08:14AM[/url]...
Why do you ask?  [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/horror.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/horror.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/horror.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/horror.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/horror.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/horror.gif[/img] [img]
by ttf_blast
Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:00 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: And who in their right mind chooses ANY mouthpiece? Plus how to choose, as well.
Replies: 62
Views: 24140

And who in their right mind chooses ANY mouthpiece? Plus how to choose, as well.

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=35533.msg482228#msg482228]Quote from: sabutin on Sep 05, 2007, 10:23AM[/url]Yeah but...what does it DO???

Provided of course that:

A-The width of the metal at the opening at the end of the m'pce and that of the step at the end of the receiver are exactly the same.

B-The m'pce actually goes in far enough so that it does butt up against said step.

and

C-That depth is the proper one for the m'pce/horn/player interface.

A lotta ifs there.

Anyone ever see a trombone with an adjustable receiver that could ameliorate a few of those questions?

S.

I agree... a lot of 'ifs'.
Somebody at King, probably way back, thought it would help make a better trombone. I bet most of the other makers tried it, found that it made little or no difference, and kept on with the simpler, cheaper style leadpipe.
Let's face it, there's every chance that most trumpets and mouthpieces do not fit together perfectly.. leaving a worse kind of gap than our end-of-shank step down.
Chris Stearn.
…
by ttf_ctingle
Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:35 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / The Business of Music
Topic: Freelance Trombone Playing Query
Replies: 65
Views: 192871

Freelance Trombone Playing Query

Go Sam!

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=36804.msg746303#msg746303]Quote from: sabutin on Aug 02, 2010, 11:07PM[/url]I missed this thread.

Sorry.

Lots of good info here.

My own story?

I am the most "freelance" musician that I know in NYC. On any axe. Never took a Broadway show, never had a regular, day-in-day-out gig, including teaching. 40 years and counting.

My one, main rule? No matter how dumb the music, always play your instrument as if every note was important. Make every note mean something even if it only means something to you.

Main rule #2?

Do not do work that interferes with rule #1.

Now...implementng that second rule can be a very subjective and personal thing. I myself cannot stay even borderline sane on most B'way show gigs, and the club date scene makes me almost suicidal. A gig here, a gig there? Sure. Every week for months? No way.

Other really fine players find those kinds of gigs not so unpleasant, and still others crank their way through those scenes despite how unhappy they may be. Everyone has certain financial parameters that they must meet…
by ttf_Koz
Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:57 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Earl Williams Trombone
Replies: 1761
Views: 1732325

Earl Williams Trombone

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=43965.msg642678#msg642678]Quote from: sabutin on Jun 08, 2009, 07:08AM[/url] What's the point of putting down the Earl williams horns? Do you really think that we are all just a bunch of star-struck teenagers?
S.
Not putting the Williams horns down at all.

Just questioning the growing hype about a horn that was a nicely built trombone of its' time. The horn was liked by some and disliked by some.

The cult status that the Williams trombones have achieved is amusing.

High school students?

As a matter of fact there are several high school students contributing to this thread portraying themselves as experts.

As for you, I respect your point of view and your years of experience.

H.


by ttf_JohnL
Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:55 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Earl Williams Trombone
Replies: 1761
Views: 1732325

Earl Williams Trombone

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=43965.msg642678#msg642678]Quote from: sabutin on Jun 08, 2009, 07:08AM[/url]Do you really think that we are all just a bunch of star-struck teenagers?Sam Burtis? A star-struck teenager? There is no smiley strong enough for my reaction to that image.
by ttf_Koz
Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:47 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Earl Williams Trombone
Replies: 1761
Views: 1732325

Earl Williams Trombone

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=43965.msg642651#msg642651]Quote from: sabutin on Jun 08, 2009, 04:24AM[/url]It's not "hype" if more than about 3 really serious players loved it.

Dick Nash.
Jack Teagarden.
Billy Byers.
Off the top of my head.

Dick Nash: Much of his recording discography was played on a Bach. Plays a Bach 16M now.

Jack Teagrden: Played just about every horn - the Williams bein gonly one of many. To my ear, Jack Teagarden did not sound his best on the Williams. (based on available recordings)

Billy Byers: Also a Bach player

It seems that many players toyed with the Williams horns but all switched to other instruments.

They were nice horns.

Some were good.

Some were dogs.

Cult status?

Nope.

Just a nicely built trombone with its' own unique quirkiness.



Hary

by ttf_Richard Tadaki
Mon May 25, 2009 6:10 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Earl Williams Trombone
Replies: 1761
Views: 1732325

Earl Williams Trombone

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=43965.msg639324#msg639324]Quote from: sabutin on May 25, 2009, 08:02AM[/url]... Then Isrea Butler bought an Earl 6 this year and showed up at a gig with it. I only had to play about 6 notes on the horn before I realized that I had indeed not been gilding any lilies, that it was a another magnificent, A++ instrument, one of maybe 6 Earl horns of all sizes that I have played that were simply memorable instruments. Make that 10 or so including several Wallace-Williams horns that were just as good although different in blow and sound to some degree. A little more... steely, a little less mellow. But strong???!!! Fuggedaboudit!!!

Now this does not mean that the recent Duda horns are not in that class. People learn things and products do improve. But the Calicchio "Williams" horns that I played several years ago were not good at all. Stuffy, with truly recalcitrant slides.


I understand that the Calicchio Williams 6 that my friend recently received was one of the last 6's that John Duda built and I thought it was a fabulous horn, complete with a first rate slide.  So it appears that John refined his trombone making skills somewhere along the line.  Considering how this horn compared to my Burbank 6, I would not…
by ttf_Koz
Mon May 25, 2009 8:40 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Earl Williams Trombone
Replies: 1761
Views: 1732325

Earl Williams Trombone

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=43965.msg639324#msg639324]Quote from: sabutin on May 25, 2009, 08:02AM[/url]
snip...

But the Calicchio "Williams" horns that I played several years ago were not good at all. Stuffy, with truly recalcitrant slides.
The saga continues...
S.
Sam, I agree.

One of the prototypes of the Bart/Carol Dalton and John Duda produced Williams made the rounds here in Chicago a few  years ago. The prototype was a fantastic blowing horn. Very much the equal of the two Williams 6 trombones that I have owned. The prototype's bell was made by John Duda and the slide was made by Mike Corrigan using Shires tubes.

The production horns that showed up here in Chicago were really bad. They were nothing at all like the prototype. The slides were bad, the horns blew stuffy, they did not have the Williams sound or feel at all. Those horns were returned and were probably passed on to other unsuspecting buyers.

by ttf_savio
Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:05 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany
Topic: a discussion of music and the trombone
Replies: 117
Views: 31251

a discussion of music and the trombone

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=51494.msg851775#msg851775]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 10, 2011, 09:50AM[/url]Personal dissonance.

Musical dissonance.

You can't have one without the other.

Music reflects human experience and human experience reflects the way that the universe works.

Without dissonance, no consonance. No neutrality, either.

Neutrality...the state of almost all of the universe in relation to any infinitesimal part of it, whether that part is itself involved in a state of neutrality, consonance or dissonance. I see a current state of dissonance in the culture regarding the music(s) to which it pays most attention and I also see a larger, more serious state of dissonance in it regarding more practical matters such as life and death, war and peace, criminality and good behaviour in a societal sense, etc. The ancient Greeks...and many other cultures...believed that the type of music to which one listened had serious effects on the state of mind of its listeners. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_mode]Read below[/url] for a little regarding this idea. (By the way, the modal names that are used? Beware...they are not necessarily the same scales that we associate with those…
by ttf_brucolli
Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:19 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany
Topic: a discussion of music and the trombone
Replies: 117
Views: 31251

a discussion of music and the trombone

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=51494.msg851438#msg851438]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 08, 2011, 04:09PM[/url]"Quarter tones," eh?

Now...if you are measuring in an academic sense, they are hard to play. In fact, only machines (and occasionally people who want to play like machines, I suppose) can actually play them accurately.

But as blue notes? As bends and idiomatic content the world over? As they appear in the untempered harmonic series? They are as common as an A 440. Quarter tones, eighth tones, even some semi-mythical note like a 264th tone? No matter. Sinatra sang them; Pops played and sang them and every musician with any blues roots who doesn't play a fixed pitch instrument has used them since childhood sing-alongs. Ditto most good Western European-style non-academic soloists and singers and ditto twice the players of almost every other non-Western musical idiom. You know...people who pl;ay for people? People who play for their supper instead of writing grants? Hell, when Thelonious Monk couldn't play them on piano, he played the notes on both sides of them simultaneously. Loudly and relatively undisguised by other, more neutral notes. It worked, too.

And here we are, back to the academic/non-academic argument that I have been trying to make on this site…
by ttf_brucolli
Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:25 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany
Topic: a discussion of music and the trombone
Replies: 117
Views: 31251

a discussion of music and the trombone

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=51494.msg851544#msg851544]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 09, 2011, 06:36AM[/url]You write:

"...egos are more important than the music."

Strangely enough, that is precisely how I feel about what I have seen and experienced in the academic/New Music scene in general.

Hmmmm....

S.

I'm sorry you have experienced this, Sam. I never have.
Maybe that's what I like so much about my new music colleagues, they are totally committed to doing their best with no ego conflicts. This is not the case in the orchestras I have played in.

Bruce
by ttf_Piano man
Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:27 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany
Topic: a discussion of music and the trombone
Replies: 117
Views: 31251

a discussion of music and the trombone

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=51494.msg851438#msg851438]Quote from: sabutin on Dec 08, 2011, 04:09PM[/url]"Quarter tones," eh?

Now...if you are measuring in an academic sense, they are hard to play. In fact, only machines (and occasionally people who want to play like machines, I suppose) can actually play them accurately.
This reminds me of a joke. A couple of fly fishermen walk down a little draw into a creek bed and surprise a grizzly sow with cubs. When the bear spots them one of the guys starts peeling off his rubber boots.

The other guy says, "You can't outrun that bear, even in your sneakers."

He answers, "I don't have to outrun the bear. I have to outrun you."

You're obviously a great musician with a great ear for pitch. Granted, you couldn't probably play quarter tones with the same subtlety and refinement with which you approach normal chromaticism (because chromaticism is more ingrained). But if it sounds good to you, it's probably going to sound good to your audience.

In other words, you don't have to outrun the bear, only the listeners.

I wasn't thinking of quarter tones as adjustments to notes. I was thinking about…