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AFTER   BEFORE 
by ttf_sabutin
Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:49 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists
Topic: High note articulation
Replies: 66
Views: 21780

High note articulation

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101567.msg1208461#msg1208461]Quote from: Pre59 on Aug 17, 2017, 05:49AM[/url]Have just checked on my setup and, I got a slotted G, G sharp and A in 3rd.
"Slotted?" To the point of being able to use slide vibrato on them? If so, your equipment is very good up there.

Question:

When you play a 12th partial Eb in 3rd position. the G, G#/A and A are to be expected...they are the 15th, 16th and...something resembling...the 17th partials. (After the 16th partials the overtone series turns into quarter tones.) Are there not an F of some sort and an F# above that Eb before you get to the G? There are on all of my horns, and that is the way the overtone series with Ab1 (Pedal Ab) as its fundamental.

S.
by ttf_sabutin
Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:21 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists
Topic: High note articulation
Replies: 66
Views: 21780

High note articulation

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101567.msg1208298#msg1208298]Quote from: Pre59 on Aug 16, 2017, 10:56AM[/url]Sam, I get what your saying, but re my positions, I've just practiced them until they work and I'm pretty sure that my nomenclature is correct with my set-up. The high D and the F I got through observation of others playing it, and the E in flat 3rd I found by trial and error because I couldn't find a stable one elsewhere. Having got a clear high F in (my) b2nd, the logical place for the F Sharp was just a small shift upwards, as was the shifting up from the D to get the Eb.

I haven't spent any time on G yet..

I'm just getting there myself. A little late after 40+ years of trying to figure it out, but...what the hell. I do keep trying. S.

Me to, I've just turned 65 and am keener than ever to crack this Tbn thing..

I dunno...I have found these positions by slurring up from secure notes below in a given position and moving the slide until they feel right, then using those positions in performance. I have found them also to be in accord with the overtone series that I can…
by ttf_sabutin
Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:08 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists
Topic: High note articulation
Replies: 66
Views: 21780

High note articulation

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101567.msg1208226#msg1208226]Quote from: Pre59 on Aug 16, 2017, 05:29AM[/url]You can get good clean E in a b3rd position and an Eb in a b1st. Also above the Eb is an in tune Gb, and in a b2nd above a D there’s an F. The D and the F in b2nd was in common usage back in the day, this may just be a small bore thing?
I think of them as flat positions a 1/2 step lower than do you, myself. Why? Because that way they are more in place with the natural overtone system on the horn. For example...if you go up the partials from say 4th partial G in 4th position, it's B, D, a quite flat F, G, A, B, a sharp C, and a D. (Roughly speaking, of course. Every horn/m'pce setup is slightly different.) In a "musical" sense, it is much easier to hear the next four partials above the 12th partial D as "E, F, F# and G," and in point of fact when singing the 8th through 16th partials using overtone singing, that's exactly how they sound. Like one of the supposed "bebop scales," a major scale w/a #6/b7 added. Like G A B C D E E#/F F# G.

Just sayin'...
…
by ttf_sabutin
Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:06 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists
Topic: High note articulation
Replies: 66
Views: 21780

High note articulation

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101567.msg1207261#msg1207261]Quote from: HoldenWelch007 on Aug 10, 2017, 01:36PM[/url]Hi guys I've been playing trombone for almost 3 years now and I've really been expanding my range and flexibility. I've had successful progress, I feel, when it comes to accuracy with high register notes, but I sometimes feel as if my articulation isn't as clear. Has anyone had a problem like this before and if so how did you go about dealing with it. I practice fundamentals  thoroughly everyday, and I'm sure with further development it will clear up. I was just curious if there are any syllables out there that might make it easier.

To clarify. The high register I'm talking about is up to the D four ledger lines above bass clef staff. More specifically in the B flat partial. Thanks guys

The tongue has many functions...especially in the higher ranges. It is hard...if not nearly impossible...to use the tongue as both an articulation device and as an air stream-directing device in the altissimo ranges.

Sorry, but there it is...

It's a different world above C# in the 10th partial.

It can be done, but at what expense to the lower ranges?
by ttf_sabutin
Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:27 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Conical Design
Replies: 54
Views: 24719

Conical Design

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101590.msg1207932#msg1207932]Quote from: Exzaclee on Aug 14, 2017, 03:02PM[/url]I don't understand what could actually be accomplished by making a "conical" trombone. The trombone, when played right, already has the tone quality that flugel players are trying so hard to emulate. Dual bore horns like the 2B are pretty "mellifluous" (if that's the right word) as it is. Go too far in that direction and eventually you lose attack and core. A "slide euphonium" would just be an inarticulate, drunken, cumbersome mess, like me after a bottle of 18 year Laphroaig.

Okay, that may be a bit harsh... but I think if you want to experiment with conical trambones, first you have to realize that for it to be "truly conical" is impossible for practical reasons. Second, you have to realize it's been done.

JJ Johnson had a horn that Larry Minick built for him that had a dual bore slide, and a bell section that expanded throughout to a 12.5" bell. I reckon his interest in this comes from his success with the 2B slide/3B bell section combo he used for much of his career. As y'all are aware, the 2B is dual bore, which makes it about as close to conical as you can get with a slide for all practical…
by ttf_sabutin
Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:24 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: 6.5a (small shank) variations
Replies: 25
Views: 10237

6.5a (small shank) variations

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101606.msg1207803#msg1207803]Quote from: Posaunus on Aug 13, 2017, 05:33PM[/url]
---snip---

Interestingly, Schilke and Yamaha do not seem to have a comparably-sized mouthpiece in their armamentaria.
Well...that kinda makes sense.

I mean ...there is a very fine line between the classic 6.5AL small bore m'pce and the 6.5A. On one side lay 6.75Cs, 7Cs, 11Cs, etc. Easier to play high than a 6.5A, not quite as big or rich a sound but really much less well-responding in the 2nd and even 3rd partials. On the other side? 5-ish m'pces that are really hard to play for extended periods of time as a lead m'pce in Pan-American idioms but work really well in the lower ranges.

Hmmmm...

Gotta be able to do it all? Using one horn and one m'pce?

Don't want to get caught out in the higher or lower ranges on a given gig? (As happened to me several times in both directions using 6.5ALs and/or 11Cs before I started using specific equipment for specific gigs.)

Hmmmmmmmm...

The search continues.

Bet on it.
…
by ttf_sabutin
Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:21 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: 6.5a (small shank) variations
Replies: 25
Views: 10237

6.5a (small shank) variations

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101606.msg1207706#msg1207706]Quote from: bigeg on Aug 13, 2017, 03:05AM[/url]Thanks for chiming in Sam  [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/smile.gif[/img]

In your mouthpiece travels have you come across another piece that compares to or is a copy of a good Bach 6.5a? Or is the best bet to try and find a a certain era/Mt. Vernon  Bach? Mine seems good but it's the only one I've tried so far.

The only other piece I've played that's sort of similar is a Yamaha Nils Langdren, but it's got quite a narrow rim and I think is sort of like a Bach 6 3/4c, so doesn't really feel or play much like the 6.5a.

Right on the money about the Nils Yamaha.

And...to paraphrase something that Blast has said many times here in different ways...with the exceptions of two Larry Minick-related m'pces (An original Minick that I call "an 11C/7C on steroids", a Horn Guys' Jeff Reynold L that is a copy of Jeff Reynolds' favorite bass m'pce and one wonderful…
by ttf_sabutin
Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:00 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: 6.5a (small shank) variations
Replies: 25
Views: 10237

6.5a (small shank) variations

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101606.msg1207698#msg1207698]Quote from: bigeg on Aug 12, 2017, 11:31PM[/url]Yes BrassArk make the Clarke 6.5 in collaboration with Bob Reeves which is "Based on the original 6.5AL mouthpiece developed in the 1930s".....I have one of these and while it's the best sounding and easiest to play 6.5al I've played, it still feels like hard work at times compared to a 6.5a on my Edwards .525 bore.

I believe that my NY Clarke S was one of the m'pces they used at Brass Ark to develop their version. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, BrassArk guys.) I concur w/bigeg. The Clarke S is actually more open than most 6.5ALs. A great m'pce, but so are many 6.5As. I am playing a 6.5A now...a Mt. Vernon...on my .508 Shires. I played them in the past on other .508 horns with very good results compared to 6.5ALs as far as general business, American idioms trombone playing is concerned. They are a little brighter sounding than 6.5ALs, a little easier in the high range and still very good in the lower ranges.

And...sadly...yes, the large shank 6.5A is actually more open blowing and larger than the large shank 6.5AL. I have…
by ttf_sabutin
Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:39 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Bad days - do I need rest, or more practice?
Replies: 24
Views: 9736

Bad days - do I need rest, or more practice?

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101689.msg1208702#msg1208702]Quote from: henrikbe on Aug 18, 2017, 12:57AM[/url]Hi!

I've been playing the trombone for about half a year now, after a 20+ years break. Generally, I think I'm improving steadily, with a decent tone in my rather narrow range. But some days, like the last couple of days, it seems like the trombone hates me. The sound is terrible, and I have no endurance at all - my lips feel numb almost immediately. If I play for a few minutes, then rest for maybe 30-60 minutes, play, rest etc, then maybe I can hear a slight improvement by the end of the day, with better but still not very good tone.

Is this a common problem, for newbies at least? Have I been practicing too much, and just need some rest? (I was practicing long notes near the top of my register the last few days before this happened.)

If anyone else experience bad days like this, do you just keep playing until it improves, or do you take a day off, in order to give your lips etc time to recover?

Solution?

Sure.

More rest coupled with better practice.

I personally never, ever "take…
by ttf_sabutin
Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:24 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
Topic: Seeing the Unseen: Douglas Yeo playing trombone in a MRI scanner
Replies: 17
Views: 33173

Seeing the Unseen: Douglas Yeo playing trombone in a MRI scanner

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101749.msg1209683#msg1209683]Quote from: yeodoug on Aug 23, 2017, 12:42PM[/url]
---snip---

And Sam - by the way, I was at the Historic Brass Symposium in NYC last month (premiering a new duet for serpent and ophicleide with Scott Robinson) and really enjoyed your performance as part of the James Reese Europe Band. I couldn't get up to the stage to see you but the concert was absolutely first rate. Bravo.

-DY



I'm sorry I missed you. I was on a sort of marathon, myself...too many gigs and rehearsals over too few days on too many instruments with too little sleep. I am glad you enjoyed it. Two or three more rehearsals and a couple more performances and it would have been truly great. I so love all of the various threads that have eventually woven themselves into NYC-style "Pan-American" idioms. No James Reese Europe, no Fletcher Henderson as far as I am concerned. And no Fletcher Henderson, no Duke Ellington. No Duke? No me. Not really.

See you somewhere, I hope. Get in touch if you're in NYC again.

Later...

Sam
by ttf_sabutin
Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:56 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
Topic: Seeing the Unseen: Douglas Yeo playing trombone in a MRI scanner
Replies: 17
Views: 33173

Seeing the Unseen: Douglas Yeo playing trombone in a MRI scanner

Hello Doug...
I  see that you are not wasting your time in "retirement." Good on ya!!!

If you haven't seen it, there is a very interesting thread about your MRI experience on the Facebook Trombone Pedagogy page. Gabe is involved, as am I and a number of other serious teachers of the trombone art and craft. Go check it out if you get a chance.

Thanks for doing this, by the way. I have become much more cognizant over the last couple of years about what my "dark side of the so-called 'embouchure'" is doing when I play...the tongue behind the attack areas. The various MRI studies are very valuable. Great work, as always, and thanks again.

Later...

Sam
by ttf_sabutin
Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:27 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Technology
Topic: Looking for an All-in-One Printer that Prints Well
Replies: 15
Views: 32358

Looking for an All-in-One Printer that Prints Well

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101791.msg1209929#msg1209929]Quote from: matto on Aug 24, 2017, 01:06PM[/url]Sam,

[url=http://www.brother-usa.com/Printer/ModelDetail/1/HLL2300D/Overview]http://www.brother-usa.com/Printer/ModelDetail/1/HLL2300D/Overview[/url]

This Brother model claims, in several places on the description, to have a tray that handles legal paper. I have a 2140, that appears to have the same footprint, that I don't believe can hold legal paper except at the manual feed tray, so I'm a little skeptical.

This page lists all the B/W Brother Laser models in order of increasing capability with MSRP. I don't believe any of them handle larger sizes of paper, but I didn't do an exhaustive reading of the list either.

[url=http://www.brother-usa.com/Printer/BW_Monochrome_Laser_Printers/]http://www.brother-usa.com/Printer/BW_Monochrome_Laser_Printers/[/url]

The last time I was in an Office Depot or Staples, they had a pretty good selection of Brother Lasers, so you might be able to get eyes on one to…
by ttf_sabutin
Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:42 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Technology
Topic: Looking for an All-in-One Printer that Prints Well
Replies: 15
Views: 32358

Looking for an All-in-One Printer that Prints Well

Does anyone know a reliable, not-too-expensive ($300? Less? More?) black and white laser that easily handles legal size paper in a stack (Good for scores) or even larger sizes?

S.
by ttf_sabutin
Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:19 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Tongue Motion
Replies: 26
Views: 8477

Tongue Motion

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101839.msg1210553#msg1210553]Quote from: Pre59 on Aug 28, 2017, 12:04PM[/url]I'm not rejecting the tongue position idea so much as wondering that If changing the tongue shape is going to work for an individual, won't it just happen naturally with practice and time?

That's the idea, of course...but it is a slow and steady way of going about things. Sometimes too slow and too steady.

There's a very thin line between over-analysis and purposeful ignorance. In everything, not just brass playing. If we learn how to walk that line, things happen more quickly and more efficiently.

That's my take on it, anyway.

I've been an dedicated experimenter about playing brass instruments since my original, fairly good "natural" way of playing deserted me...actually, I kinda chased it away by overwork/not enough practice/too wild a life...as a young pro in NYC. I took Carmine Caruso's principles and used them as a kind of safety net. I expanded them in any number of ways, knowing that if I started to get in trouble I could easily right myself by simply going back to exactly what Carmine had taught me.

So far, so good.

As…
by ttf_sabutin
Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:43 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Tongue Motion
Replies: 26
Views: 8477

Tongue Motion

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101839.msg1210545#msg1210545]Quote from: timothy42b on Aug 28, 2017, 10:30AM[/url]Now I'm really confused.

I wish I hadn't watched this video again:
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWcOwgWsPHA#t=457]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWcOwgWsPHA#t=457[/url]

(Sarah Willis on MRI)

because I noticed something at 7:15 that I hadn't seen before. 

To me, tongue arch means the tip is low, the back is low, the middle is high.

But clearly Sarah raises the side edges of the tongue to create a narrow channel down the middle. 

I have never tried to do that, nor would I have thought of it. 

Some people simply cannot make that "channel" down the middle of the tongue. It is called "folding the tongue" I believe, and I researched it when I was trying to learn how to whistle really loudly as a boy. I found that I could do it and soon thereafter had a whistle that would stop a taxi 2 blocks away. I have experimented with using it on brass instruments, but it has never much affected how I play in any…
by ttf_sabutin
Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:07 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Tongue Motion
Replies: 26
Views: 8477

Tongue Motion

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101839.msg1210473#msg1210473]Quote from: baileyman on Aug 27, 2017, 07:04PM[/url]What's happening, and this has been changing with continued specific practice, is that the tongue articulates in a way so as to preserve the space it forms behind the teeth, the space which seems to be tuned to the pitch played.
YES!!!

Bingo!!!

We are to some degree "whistling" the pitches that we are playing. I can whistle three completely different ways...the normal melodic whistling where a roundish hole can be seen in he middle of the puckered lips, a very shrill, powerful whistle where the lips are somewhat rolled in and the edges of the tongue meet the rolled-in lips and a sort of "secret" whistle because I have a gap between my upper front two teeth. (I used to delight in driving my school teachers crazy with it because my mouth looks pretty much normal when I'm doing it. [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/evil.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/evil.gif[/img…
by ttf_sabutin
Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:21 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Tongue Motion
Replies: 26
Views: 8477

Tongue Motion

=========================================

Q: When articulating does your tongue move mostly down, mostly back, or a combination of down and back?

A: Yes.

=========================================

Not a wisecrack.

Ok...maybe a little...

But true nonetheless.

QuoteDifferent ranges

Different volumes

Different articulations

Different tonguing patterns.
Too many to accurately categorize when in performance mode.

Which brings us back to "Song and Wind," to "Tongue and Blow." If it sounds right, it is right. I am not at all sure that we can ever fully control what the tongue does when we are playing. Yes, these MRIs give us hints, but...they are such an artificial situation compared to what we are doing when we stand up and play to the best of our abilities. And when we play to the best of our abilities...at least the following is the case with me, and I believe it to be the case with pretty much every serious player on any instrument...when we play to the best of our abilities, we do not have the capability of "observing" what we are doing. Every effort to "observe" backs us off of really playing. This is not just the case w/the tongue, either. We can observe preparation...stance, in-breath, prepared attack, m'pce and…
by ttf_sabutin
Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:43 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: Thoughts on "Day-to-Day Mouthpiece" vs. "Solo Mouthpiece"
Replies: 22
Views: 7629

Thoughts on "Day-to-Day Mouthpiece" vs. "Solo Mouthpiece"

I take it a step further. Different horns and m'pces...always the same m'pce on each horn. I cannot find one horn and/or two m'pces that adequately fit the many different kinds of music that I must play as a NYC freelancer. I used to use only one horn/one m'pce...either a silver 3B/6.5AL, a single bore Bach 16/6.5A and later an 11C and an Earl Williams 6/11C...for a number of years, but I am now am much happier playing horns and m'pces that really focus on specific sorts of tasks. "Day-to-Day Mouthpiece" vs. "Solo Mouthpiece" just scratches the surface here in NYC. Which day and which kind of solo?

Really.

A five set older-style dance band lead gig?

A latin gig?

A three horn jazz gig?

A gig in more modern large ensemble jazz groups?

Playing jazz w/a quartet?

Playing in an amplified pop/rock/blues/whatever scene?

Playing third parts in a 4 trombone section where you want to timbrally lock really well w/the bs. trombonist some part of the time (often written w/trigger notes) but also want to access a lock upwards, towards the lead player and also as a soloist?

A…
by ttf_sabutin
Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:03 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
Topic: Screw on rims
Replies: 6
Views: 2990

Screw on rims

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101913.msg1211057#msg1211057]Quote from: Gabe Langfur on Aug 31, 2017, 05:41PM[/url]I haven't.

Me neither...and I have done literally hundreds of blindfold tests.

S.
by ttf_sabutin
Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:42 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: LEAD TROMBONE //SPECS//NEEDS /DESIRES/ATTEMPTS
Replies: 20
Views: 8468

LEAD TROMBONE //SPECS//NEEDS /DESIRES/ATTEMPTS

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101937.msg1211489#msg1211489]Quote from: RJMason on Sep 04, 2017, 10:02AM[/url]Yeah Sam, love your insight!

In NYC I've done big band gigs where the lead guy is on a 3B+, 2nd on a Rath R4, I'm on a 36BG in the tenors.  I've also done Big Band hits with the more normal King 2B Bach 12 players and I'm on a 3B.

Most people will have a gig before or after a big band hit and take the trombone that can cover the most jobs in a given day.  Common conceptions about "blending with the right horn" are thrown out the window.  Silver Sonics paired with Martin Committees paired with Elliot Mason BAC models, and the sections still sound amazing!

Getting the right tool for the job makes all of that work easier, but the players are getting so good that once they have the Lead Trombone sound truly internalized in their brain they can access it on any instrument.

My personal experience, I have played a Hammond 13M on a 3B for a few years--definitely suffered from the King 3B 6.5 size MPC struggles to sound good when I first moved to NYC--but now I have switched to this new AR Resonance mouthpiece and…
by ttf_sabutin
Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:26 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: LEAD TROMBONE //SPECS//NEEDS /DESIRES/ATTEMPTS
Replies: 20
Views: 8468

LEAD TROMBONE //SPECS//NEEDS /DESIRES/ATTEMPTS

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=101937.msg1211434#msg1211434]Quote from: bonesmarsh on Today at 04:32 AM[/url]Sam,

A likely not so simple question for you to answer from your decades of thought and experience-

For a lot of us there is no real live example of proper lead playing to emulate any more. However, there is plenty of youtube video of the greats in action from the Golden Years-- lots of youtube Ellington and Basie. ( Kenton, Herman, and all the rest...)

How did the greats do it?
Or did they just begin in their childhoods in the 1920s and 1930s,and never look back?-- just keeping the vintage gear going from pre-WWII?
Lost gear and 25 years of experience on the road making it happen?

The big question, Sam-- is the answer a trip back in time to replicate the vintage gear and learning, or is there something modern
 to be learned from?
Thanks.

The "answer"...for me...is to try to understand the conditions under which past masters worked, understand the conditions under which we must work, then understand what those past masters did to meet the challenges that they faced and finally take what they did and apply it to the present.
by ttf_sabutin
Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:29 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: LEAD TROMBONE //SPECS//NEEDS /DESIRES/ATTEMPTS
Replies: 20
Views: 8468

LEAD TROMBONE //SPECS//NEEDS /DESIRES/ATTEMPTS

Suggested by dj:

"...discuss the very specific and personal needs of lead trombone..."

OK.

For me...a NYC-centric lead player who covers a lot of idioms...the very first thing that I need is a horn that "colors" easily and very broadly and also projects out into the audience.

What do I mean by that?

I mean:

1-At fairly high volumes it sounds like a big trumpet in the upper middle/high registers. And I mean a good big trumpet. I would say more than 70% of a lead player's job in most big bands is to be part of brass tuttis, to bridge the gap between the trumpets and the trombones. The other 30% is to play lead in trombone solis...not just melodic stuff, but attacked hits as well. Jazz soloing is extra as far as I am concerned as a lead player...different blow, different approach, different mind, different chop. I can do it, but most of the time as a lead player I'd rather not.

The three failings that I most often hear from lead players are:

   A-Not enough projection, so that the trombones are completely overshadowed by the trumpets

   and

   B-Not enough brilliance, not enough bite to the attacks. Trumpets snap…
by ttf_sabutin
Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:24 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories
Topic: Glenn Cronkhite Bags Back In Production!
Replies: 4
Views: 20790

Glenn Cronkhite Bags Back In Production!

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=102134.msg1218824#msg1218824]Quote from: Geordie on Oct 30, 2017, 10:27PM[/url]Link is working for me. Pictures and prices on display.


Yes. It's working for me now too. The vagaries of the internet...

Meanwhile, I went to the [url=https://torpedobags.com/product/bass-trombone/]Torpedo Bag[/url] site and found the bags, although at a much higher apparent price than the store to which you linked.

Thanks...

S.
by ttf_sabutin
Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:48 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories
Topic: Glenn Cronkhite Bags Back In Production!
Replies: 4
Views: 20790

Glenn Cronkhite Bags Back In Production!

When I go to that link I get a "500 Internal Server Error" message.

I was just asked about Cronkhite cases by a friend...a bass trombonist. What do you have and where can he go to order one? What are the prices, etc.?

S.

by ttf_sabutin
Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:53 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Pedal tone question
Replies: 14
Views: 6144

Pedal tone question

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=102387.msg1215203#msg1215203]Quote from: sonicsilver on Oct 01, 2017, 02:14PM[/url]Many bass trombonists (and tenor trombonists for that matter) have an embouchure shift somewhere around pedal G, Gb, F or possibly E, to keep going into lower pedal notes.

Perhaps, for your face, Ab and G are the last bits of the pre-shift embouchure and not quite as solid as the Bb and A, or the post-shift pedals Gb downwards.



Bingo!!!

S.
by ttf_sabutin
Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:22 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Tuning in Slide vs. Tuning in Bell
Replies: 36
Views: 15709

Tuning in Slide vs. Tuning in Bell

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=102489.msg1216527#msg1216527]Quote from: daveyboy37 on Oct 11, 2017, 11:41AM[/url]The question then is always whether that was due to the trombone being slide tuned, or just to the overall build quality or design.

Both.

All of the truly great slide tuning horns that I have played are Conns from the '50s on back. Also several Greenhoe models as well. Why? Great designers...Jake Burkle and Gary Greenhoe...great workmanship and slide tuning.

Well designed and manufactured slide tuning produces...to my ears...the best of all possible trombone worlds. Sound, power, pitch, flexibility...the works. The only problem is that bell tuning has predominated and slide tuning instruments sound too...rich...in comparison. In a trumpet-dominated world, bell tuning lines up better with the trumpets. That's the long and short of it, in my experience.

So it goes...

S.
by ttf_sabutin
Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:54 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Conn 32H, new to me
Replies: 10
Views: 6132

Conn 32H, new to me

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=102567.msg1216774#msg1216774]Quote from: Dukesboneman on Oct 13, 2017, 03:47PM[/url]I tried that configuration and found that it lost a little of the core of the sound. more diffuse.
and the tuning got a little off. The 7 1/2" Bell gives the horn more punch
And the other way around with the 32H bell and the 78H slide was just weird.

I had a red brass 78H Special from the '30s. Dunno what the "Special" was supposed to mean, but it was. And I believe the bell was the same diameter as the 32H. Whatever...it's been a long, long time. I was looking for a little less "punch" at the time. Or rather...punch at a higher volume. The 32H bell I had started to get bright too early in the dynamic range for me at that time, and using the 78H bell fixed that.

S.

P.S. And yes, the tuning changed. "Off?" Again, I don't really know what that means. I play extended 1st position and adjust all positions continually on all horns. It wasn't unusable...
by ttf_sabutin
Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:14 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Conn 32H, new to me
Replies: 10
Views: 6132

Conn 32H, new to me

Jake Burkle-designed horns are always good, if they have been treated well. Burkle loved TIS horns, but when the tide turned and Conn couldn't sell them very much anymore he designed the 30H and 32H to be as "conical" as possible w/out slide tuning. I have been told that even the slide crooks are conical. Great horns.

S.

P.S. I played one for quite a while. Loved it. Have you tried your 78H bell on the 32H slide? My '30s red brass 78H bell worked even better than the '50s yellow brass 32H bell for me. Try it.

Should fit...
by ttf_sabutin
Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:12 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Picking out high notes out of thin air.
Replies: 60
Views: 25658

Picking out high notes out of thin air.

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=102818.msg1219484#msg1219484]Quote from: Geezerhorn on Nov 05, 2017, 08:11AM[/url]
---snip---

And I agree, who the heck wants to sound bad for an extended period of time until it all clicks. That right there would seem to be a deal-breaker for most.

---snip---
But...the other things that Carmine emphasized over and over again were:

1-Do not overdo his exercises

and

2-Always practice musical things as well as doing his exercises. And when you are playing with others...fuggedaboudit and just play.

Number 2 is where the "sound" thing came in. Doing Carmine's exercises in rational amounts does not immediately change the way you play. They sneak up on you on little cat feet. So there you are, playing a Rochut or a tune or the Cello Suites or whatever, pretty much as you have always been able to play them. Ditto in ensembles. A week, a month...some period of time goes by, and one day you notice you have ranges and flexibilities that you didn't have before. Or your sound through the ranges and volumes is better. Nothing radical, just...better. Not only that, Carmine's exercises are sounding better, too.

…
by ttf_sabutin
Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:28 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Picking out high notes out of thin air.
Replies: 60
Views: 25658

Picking out high notes out of thin air.

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=102818.msg1219236#msg1219236]Quote from: Geezerhorn on Nov 03, 2017, 08:01AM[/url]Playing - correct playing - always helps. If it doesn't help then it isn't correct. And to my understanding, there are two approaches to that - if I have it right in it's most simplistic terms:

---snip---

2) Burtis - the correct sound (via Caruso) creates the embouchure.

---snip---

...Geezer
That's not quite it, Geezer. It's more of a two-stage operation. Done right, Caruso-style exercises create a correct gestalt...the whole enchilada, from the in-breath and other physical, mental and musical preparations for the note to the initial attack and sustained tone. Attempting to make a "good" sound has nothing to do with that process, and in fact during the the early stages of doing Caruso stuff a good sound is very rarely present. One of the most difficult parts of learning Carmine's approach is giving up the attempt to sound "good" while doing his exercises, and that alone probably explains why there is so relatively little Caruso influence in mainstream pedagogy. Sounding bad in the practice room in front of all of your friends, enemies, competitors and teachers??? HORRORS!!! Having people sound bad in your teaching studio in front of your bosses and competitors? Ditto…
by ttf_sabutin
Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:49 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Engaging your abs
Replies: 22
Views: 9950

Engaging your abs

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=102839.msg1219078#msg1219078]Quote from: Doug Elliott on Nov 01, 2017, 07:20PM[/url]Somewhat - depends on the range and volume.

Precisely.

Range-higher ranges produce more resistance. More resistance needs more "support" from wherever you think that it is emanating in your body.

Volume-louder volumes require more air. More air also calls for more support.

Add to this:

The overall resistance of the equipment. Smaller overall equipment requires more force behind the air to drive it into the horn than does overall larger, less resistant equipment. Also, the closer to the chops, the more import size has on resistance. This "resistance" thing also includes the embouchure itself and the whole tongue/vocal cavity situation.

Add in individual air capacities and clearly this is not a pat, cut-and-dried problem. I personally play a great deal of fairly loud, fairly high music on fairly small equipment, and when playing in those general ranges on that equipment I find that I do not generally need to "think" much about my support until I get up above say 10th partial C#. My abdominal muscles are engaged up to there, but not with any great force. After that range? I need to consciously engage my abdominals...or maybe…
by ttf_sabutin
Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:15 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Town Hall / Notices from TTF Members
Topic: Urbie Green GoFund
Replies: 18
Views: 36862

Urbie Green GoFund

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=103083.msg1221368#msg1221368]Quote from: robcat2075 on Nov 18, 2017, 07:56AM[/url]It's alarming that conservative media turned the "old enough to know better" set into the "too old to know better" crowd.

It's alarming that people who should be old enough to know better are falling for and rewteeting the "both sides do it" stuff on retirement programs.

Social Security, Medicare... not perfect and they do cost money but those are Democrat-passed and defended programs that fill in a gaping hole in the finances of retirees. There was not a golden age of carefree retirement before those programs.

If those programs aren't adequate now it's not because Democrats have spent 50+ years trying to weaken them and creating problems to force them to failure.
The Democratic Party and the Republican Party are now owned and operated by the same corporate forces, robcat. A cursory look at the monetary support of almost every major national politician makes that a plain fact. The "Democrats" of 50 years ago were still New Deal people, by and large. Those today are not. The two parties talk a good game, but when push comes to shove in the back rooms they are essentially in agreement. Too many people, too little work. Result? A planned die…
by ttf_sabutin
Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:57 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Town Hall / Notices from TTF Members
Topic: Urbie Green GoFund
Replies: 18
Views: 36862

Urbie Green GoFund

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=103083.msg1221350#msg1221350]Quote from: Posaunus on Nov 17, 2017, 11:53PM[/url]Unfortunately, the "GoFundMe" page appears to be out of order.  I have tried to donate with 3 different credit cards, and all 3 contributions were denied.  Does anyone know how to get around this problem? I've run out of credit cards!  Urbie is one of my heroes, and I want to help! 

I had no trouble a couple of days ago. Have you tried doing it on another computer or using another browser?

S.
by ttf_sabutin
Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:46 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Town Hall / Notices from TTF Members
Topic: Urbie Green GoFund
Replies: 18
Views: 36862

Urbie Green GoFund

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=103083.msg1221313#msg1221313]Quote from: harrison.t.reed on Nov 17, 2017, 12:17PM[/url]I hope politics can stay out of this thread. Real charity is not dead. I tried to help save the Brass Lab last year but it wasn't enough. Doesn't mean I didn't help out those guys though. There are plenty of good people out there and a little charity from a lot of good people goes a long way. Thanks for bringing this topic up!

Unfortunately, HTR, "politics"...and the monetization of human health and life that has been supported by both major political parties under the direction/compulsion of massive financial support by Big Insurance, Big Pharma and Big Med...cannot "stay out of this thread."

Sorry...

I am old enough to be able to remember when working class and middle class people could reasonably expect fairly high-level medical care at a price that they could afford to pay. Those days are gone forever. Urbie's plight...and the plight of so many other U.S. citizens who never made nearly as much as did Urbie Green (nor did they contribute nearly as much to the culture)...is mainstream business now. Social Security and pensions are presently under serious attack by the bipartisan, duoparty Permanent Government, and the .01…
by ttf_sabutin
Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:03 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Town Hall / Notices from TTF Members
Topic: Urbie Green GoFund
Replies: 18
Views: 36862

Urbie Green GoFund

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=103083.msg1221253#msg1221253]Quote from: stonebone on Nov 16, 2017, 07:21PM[/url]Urbie Green needs our help. He is 91 now and faces some serious medical bills. If you play trombone, you have to know what Urbie has meant to all of us.

This is not a hoax. Go to [url=https://www.gofundme.com/UrbieGreen]https://www.gofundme.com/UrbieGreen[/url] and donate whatever you can. Besides being quite possibly the best trombonist ever, Urbie is also one of the sweetest, humblest men I know. Do it now!

Thanks!

The government and general social culture cannot now be counted upon to take care of anyone, even someone who has been as successful and contributed so much to the culture as has Urbie. It's up to friends and family, for all of us.

Be a friend.

Please.

Thanks...

S.
by ttf_sabutin
Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:03 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories
Topic: Pixie Mute
Replies: 11
Views: 28435

Pixie Mute

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=103369.msg1224736#msg1224736]Quote from: BGuttman on Dec 15, 2017, 05:35AM[/url]I believe you are referring to Quentin "Butter" Jackson.  Great player.

I heard from someone else that they used a "Non-Pareil" trumpet mute which they built up the corks on.  The Non-Pareil isn't made any more and if a StoneLine mute works, great.

Note that you have to play up in the range for this technique.  Generally above the bass staff.

My current favorite small plunger mute is an Stomvi convertible trumpet cup mute with the cup part off. I have a number of Nonpareils and other trumpet straight mutes, and this one cuts them all in terms of projecton and "buzz." I looked online and the current Stomvi adjustable looks like it might be different than this one. Try one...if you can find it...and see.

S.

P.S. The H&B pixie mute does not radically change the pitch of the horn upward...as do the smaller straight mutes like the Nonpareils...and it is much more usable in terms of overall range. It is less...piercing...in sound that the smaller mutes as well, but in a big band/short solo, "piercing" is what you want. Listen to the daddy…
by ttf_sabutin
Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:54 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Rath R2 vs Shires Michael Davis +
Replies: 26
Views: 43514

Rath R2 vs Shires Michael Davis +

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=103560.msg1226455#msg1226455]Quote from: thepianoman04 on Today at 12:27 PM[/url]Ok. So, I received my MD+ finally and here are my first impressions.

Keep in mind the horn is supposed to include a counterweight but mine doesn’t have one at the moment. Contacted the guy I bought it from to see about getting one sent to me because I prefer the counterweight unlike Michael Davis and say John Fedchock who don’t use a counterweight.

So, at first blow on the MD+, the slide isn’t as smooth as my Rath R2 but is a very close 2nd. I’m sure breaking it in will help some. As for the Shires vs Rath sound, I gotta hand it to the MD+. I can definitely hear a difference in the sweeter tone it produces and it definitely has a bigger core to the sound whereas the Rath has a more “grit” or “sizzle” in the sound without even trying and is slightly more dull. Not necessarily a “bad” sound, just different from the Shires. The MD+ definitely blends better with trumpet IMHO and when I practiced with my wife (who plays trumpet) and we’re both locked in tune, the MD+ sounds like 2 types of “like” instruments whereas the Rath sounds like a slightly different blend of 2 different instrument types.
by ttf_sabutin
Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:11 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Rath R2 vs Shires Michael Davis +
Replies: 26
Views: 43514

Rath R2 vs Shires Michael Davis +

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=103560.msg1225580#msg1225580]Quote from: TromboneMonkey on Dec 21, 2017, 09:39PM[/url]If you really want to go for the full "double blind" experience, I'd 1- wear gloves to make identification harder, and 2- include a third (similar but different) trombone as a control. 

Indeed.

The more the merrier. Only when I am totally confused can I make valid judgements on equipment. The mind gets in the way. I have been surprised so many times by blindfold test results that now no result is a surprise.

S.
by ttf_sabutin
Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:42 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Rath R2 vs Shires Michael Davis +
Replies: 26
Views: 43514

Rath R2 vs Shires Michael Davis +

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=103560.msg1225107#msg1225107]Quote from: Chris Fidler on Dec 18, 2017, 02:36PM[/url]Just to clarify, Rath don't do a .508 bore. The R2 is a .510 bore.

Close enough for jazz.

S.
by ttf_sabutin
Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:51 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Rath R2 vs Shires Michael Davis +
Replies: 26
Views: 43514

Rath R2 vs Shires Michael Davis +

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=103560.msg1225029#msg1225029]Quote from: thepianoman04 on Dec 18, 2017, 06:39AM[/url]Hello Tromboneforum,

I need some opinions on the Rath vs Shires debate but need to investigate even a little further into 2 specific models.

I currently own a Rath R2 (.510 bore) with a nickel silver bell, a yellow brass bell & a nickel silver slide. I'm perfectly content with my R2 and is a monster. Does everything I ask it to.

My concern is that a while back I bought a Michael Davis Shires and loved just about everything about it except for it being a little too small for my taste since it is a .495 bore. It definitely played larger than a .495 bore but was still just too small for me so I ended up selling it and getting the R2.

Since the R2 is a perfect fit for me as far as size goes, I am now curious in the Michael Davis + (.508 bore) and whether I should possibly give the Shires a try up against my R2 or is it worth the hassle of trying it out?

I've got an offer for a pretty awesome deal on a brand new MD+ but don't have approval from the wife to…
by ttf_sabutin
Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:33 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / The Healthy Trombonsit
Topic: Movie theatre loudness
Replies: 13
Views: 28995

Movie theatre loudness

Bring earplugs.

Everywhere.

I always carry several around in my pocket...32 or 33 db-rated. I use the foam ones...they are inexpensive and easy to adjust, from barely in to almost deaf. This culture has learned to substitute volume for content, and not just in music. Cars, trains...especially subways...sirens, whistles etc. can be uncomfortably loud as well. So can percussion instruments, trumpets and other loud, high musical sounds.

Protect yourself.

You're all you've got.

AG
by ttf_sabutin
Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:42 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
Topic: Kleinhammer and his Eb tuba mouthpiece
Replies: 34
Views: 54756

Kleinhammer and his Eb tuba mouthpiece

I used to use an EEb tuba m'pce on bass trombone when some foolish studio "arranger" wrote stuff in the pedal ranges that I simply couldn't play. English Besson EEbs (I still play one) used to come stock with a Besson m'pce that I found too small for low range tuba work. The EEB Bessons of the time had a smaller receiver than standard tubas, and so did that m'pce. It fit a stock bs. tbn receiver quite well. The m'pce  was not too good above 2nd partial, but really good for elephantine pedal blatting. I no longer need to use it because...as has been pointed out here...the whole bs. tbn. equipment thing has gotten generally larger. Horns, m'pces...the works.

But if I had to use it?

It's still in my m'pce bag... [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/wink.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/wink.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/wink.gif[/img]<…
by ttf_sabutin
Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:36 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Lip bending- good, bad or ugly
Replies: 17
Views: 34919

Lip bending- good, bad or ugly

Just a quick word about slide trombonists and lip bends:

When we gliss inside of any given partial we are doing "lip bends."
When we...or any other brass player...practices m'pce buzzing, rim buzzing or freebuzzing? Ditto.

Just sayin'...maybe the benefits of "lip bends" have to do with finding out how to play in the real center of the relatively fixed pitch of a valved instrument. rombonists can do "lip bends" by playing a note that sounds good and then moving the slide in any direction w/in that partial...or even into other, contiguous partials...while trying to keep a good sound.

Not that you shouldn't try them...try everything and use what works. But be sure to understand what you are trying. I actually have what I call an "establishing exercise" that is essentially "lip bending/glissing/going over partials in both directions from a given note. When the tone changes...the feel, the blow...that is where your original setting is beginning to stop working well. Then yu practice hrough that range from range where you started.

Again...just sayin'...
by ttf_sabutin
Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:21 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany
Topic: Forgotten mouthpiece?
Replies: 32
Views: 46480

Forgotten mouthpiece?

I always carry a spare m'pce in my equipment/mute bag that is at least close to the one that I am playing. Forget my m'pce? It's happened... [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/shuffle.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/shuffle.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/shuffle.gif[/img] But...maybe worse...dropping it and busting up the shank.

S.
by ttf_sabutin
Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:02 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Trombonists
Topic: Low C above pedal Bb
Replies: 34
Views: 56615

Low C above pedal Bb

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=103909.msg1228605#msg1228605]Quote from: Gabe Langfur on Jan 15, 2018, 07:36AM[/url]As you go larger with the rim of the mouthpiece, the angle adjustments necessary for the low range become less pronounced, and there's more margin for error. If you're doing a lot of doubling on tenor, it might be better to stick with a smaller bass trombone mouthpiece so that what you do on each instrument is more similar. But maybe not!

I would caution you to work on the low C area on the bass so that you're not also dealing with twisting your body to get the slide out to b7th. When I play my single valve basses a lot, I have to remind myself to maintain the embouchure/mouthpiece angle that works best for the sound and response rather than the one that's easiest to get with my slide extended.

Yes Gabe!!!

This is also very important for tenor trombonists ho wish to have a modicum of usable control in the 5th, 6th and 7th extended positions on up to the 8th partial. Our arm motions and extensions torque right on back to our left hand grip, and the lower ranges are not the only placed where we need to be careful about angles and placements, they are…
by ttf_sabutin
Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:55 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
Topic: Putting together Warm-up materials
Replies: 17
Views: 33688

Putting together Warm-up materials

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=104152.msg1230444#msg1230444]Quote from: baileyman on Jan 26, 2018, 04:01PM[/url]sabutin's method for coming up with exercises results in endless variety over the entire horn, and they work for warmup, starting gently.
Thank you, John.

Yes, my exercises work very well as a warm up...especially if you understand where your breaks are and the need to play through into more difficult registers from your stronger registers. But...so does whatever you normally do in the practice room. The only general rule that I follow...and teach...regarding warmups is that whatever form they take, they should start in wherever you consider your "middle" range and initially work downwards through to your lowest possible notes, trying to minimize and time in (if not eliminate) your shifts.

Now...one problem with this is identifying your "middle" range. Here's how I go about doing so.

On every one of my 7 main instruments and their (all different) m'pces, I look to what kind of musical demands I expect to be asked of me, especially in terms of range. For example, with my lead horn I spend most of my time in the upper registers...say from 10th partial D down to 3rd partial D. (
  • Jump to post
    • by ttf_sabutin
    Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:55 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists
    Topic: Returning from Focal Dystonia
    Replies: 8
    Views: 26276

    Returning from Focal Dystonia

    I have written here often about "Focal Dystonia" and brass players. I believe it to be way over-diagnosed. The player in that video? He has simply lost his timing. He doesn't set his embouchure before he blows, thus the air sound as he finds and sets his embouchure. There are other videos on Youtube of brass players who have a true muscular quiver in their chops when they try to play. If you want to label that as focal dystonia I have no objection, but this player has lost the habitual, reflexive timing that is necessary to start a note...probably for long enough to also have lost some of the strength in his embouchure musculature as well.

    S.

    by ttf_sabutin
    Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:56 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Practice Break / Polls
    Topic: Rosolino vs the rest
    Replies: 168
    Views: 418779

    Rosolino vs the rest

    C'mon folks. Don't take this guy seriously. He is either consciously trolling here and performing a good imitation of a semi-illiterate, low IQ fanboy of some kind or...oh well, you can figure out the other option. Either way...why waste the energy?

    S.

    P.S. By the way. Just for the record, I personally think that Frank Rosolino was an amazingly gifted musician. He was a great player physically, a great player in terms of his ability to play inside of changes, and a total original on the instrument. And the same thing can be said about Carl Fontana. That said, I almost never, ever listen to their music...or the music of those who were most influenced by them...for the purposes of musical pleasure. Different strokes for different folks. Sue me.

    This general lack of interest that I have in their playing is a quite natural and unconsidered one. When I was 14 and started listening seriously to jazz their playing simply did not particularly interest me and that was true for no apparent reason whatsoever. I was more attracted to the playing of other trombonists. Teagarden, Dorsey, Urbie, J.J. and Curtis Fuller particularly. Then I heard Jimmy Knepper (EUREKA!!!), discovered Bill Harris, Trummy Young and Tricky Sam Nanton, and ran into the whole latin thing with Barry Rogers, José Rodriques etc. Years later it began to occur to me exactly…
    by ttf_sabutin
    Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:53 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Practice Break / Polls
    Topic: Rosolino vs the rest
    Replies: 168
    Views: 418779

    Rosolino vs the rest

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=35772.msg495778#msg495778]Quote from: RedHotMama on Nov 05, 2007, 01:11AM[/url]---snip--- all of whom played high and fiddly.
    You made me spill my coffee!!!

    Quote"High and fiddly."
    No more perfect description of a style of jazz trombone playing to which I literally cannot stand to listen has ever been spoken.

    Thank you.

    Now...on to Frank again.

    You say elsewhere here that you are being led to believe that he was something special.

    He WAS something special.

    He was a totally...and damned near uncopyable...original.

    He never seemed to be able to play a bad note; he played with great rhythmic power and...when he decided to do so...with a modicum of physical power as well.

    Plus...he could play in ways other than the patented "Rosolino" style. Witness his work on the film "In Cold Blood". After much searching, I found that it was he who was playing the absolutely amazing strange-muted trombone solos (I still can't figure out what the mute was.) on the Quincy Jones (or whoever Quincy hired to ghost for him) soundtrack.

    My problem with listening to…
    by ttf_sabutin
    Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:05 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Practice Break / Polls
    Topic: Rosolino vs the rest
    Replies: 168
    Views: 418779

    Rosolino vs the rest

    On the topic of one's life being audible in one's music...ESPECIALLY the naked improvisations of master jazz musicians.

    From a master novelist and student of the human condition, here is a passage about Bird from Thomas Pynchon´s epic novel Gravity´s Rainbow .

    QuoteDown in New York, drive fast maybe get there for the last set--on 7th Ave., between 139th and 140th, tonight, “Yardbird” Parker is finding out how he can use the notes at the higher ends of these very chords to break up the melody into have mercy what is it a ******* machine gun or something man he must be out of his mind 32nd notes demisemiquavers say it very (demisemiquaver) fast in a Munchkin voice if you can dig that coming out of Dan Wall’s Chili House and down the street--****, out in all kinds of streets (his trip, by ‘39, well begun: down inside his most affirmative solos honks already the idle, amused dum-de-dumming of old Mister ******* Death he self) out over the airwaves, into the society gigs, someday as far as what seeps out hidden speakers in the city elevators and in all the markets, his bird’s singing, to gainsay the Man’s lullabies, to subvert the groggy wash of the endlessly, gutlessly overdubbed strings...So that prophecy, even up here on rainy Massachusetts Avenue, is beginning these days to work itself out in “Cherokee,” the saxes downstairs getting now into some, oh…