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AFTER   BEFORE 
by ttf_sabutin
Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:24 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Earl Williams Trombone
Replies: 1761
Views: 1732919

Earl Williams Trombone

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=43965.msg642621#msg642621]Quote from: Koz on Jun 07, 2009, 09:34PM[/url]The protype Kanstul 1606 (the first horn made) is owned by a player here in Chicago. It is a fantastic playing horn. The bell is the lightest bell offered by Kanstul for the 1606. It has a nickel slide.

Also in regard to the Williams 6. I have owned a few. I have played four others. They all played and sounded different from one another. One was an absolute dog.

It is hillarious to read all of this hype about a horn that never was sought after by the majority of players when they were being built.

Many Conn players, many King players, many Bach players.

Williams?

Not so much.

They were fantastic instruments. Real singers. I have never played a "dog" Earl Williams...not that I doubt that they might exist, especially after 40 or 50+ years of possible meddling... nor have I ever played a bad Wallace Williams.

Hilarious?

How many pages of hilarious do we have here?

18?

Hmmmmm....

Some were lighter than others.

Some were reputedly…
by ttf_sabutin
Mon May 25, 2009 8:42 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Earl Williams Trombone
Replies: 1761
Views: 1732919

Earl Williams Trombone

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=43965.msg639338#msg639338]Quote from: Koz on May 25, 2009, 08:40AM[/url]Sam, I agree.

One of the prototypes of the Bart/Carol Dalton and John Duda produced Williams made the rounds here in Chicago a few  years ago. The prototype was a fantastic blowing horn. Very much the equal of the two Williams 6 trombones that I have owned. The prototype's bell was made by John Duda and the slide was made by Mike Corrigan using Shires tubes.

The production horns that showed up here in Chicago were really bad. They were nothing at all like the prototype. The slides were bad, the horns blew stuffy, they did not have the Williams sound or feel at all. Those horns were returned and were probably passed on to other unsuspecting buyers.


As always...

Caveat emptor.

S.


by ttf_sabutin
Mon May 25, 2009 8:02 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Earl Williams Trombone
Replies: 1761
Views: 1732919

Earl Williams Trombone

I will be curious to play some of these new Williams-style instruments. I have played many, from the Tennessee horn that I bought to back up my own fine Earl Williams 6...I went to the shop to check them out and chose the one that I liked best...through some of the early Callicchios and a few Kanstuls. None of them felt to me to be in the same class as my Earl, but I sort of discounted that feeling because I knew that horn so well, had gold and silver plated it so that to my ears it was even better than when I got it and as time passes without it (I sold it after I got my Shires .500 maybe 6 or 7 years ago) I figured that I might simply be gilding the lily of fond remembrance.

Then Isrea Butler bought an Earl 6 this year and showed up at a gig with it. I only had to play about 6 notes on the horn before I realized that I had indeed not been gilding any lilies, that it was a another magnificent, A++ instrument, one of maybe 6 Earl horns of all sizes that I have played that were simply memorable instruments. Make that 10 or so including several Wallace-Williams horns that were just as good although different in blow and sound to some degree. A little more... steely, a little less mellow. But strong???!!! Fuggedaboudit!!!
…
by ttf_sabutin
Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:40 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
Topic: Earl Williams Trombone
Replies: 1761
Views: 1732919

Earl Williams Trombone

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=43965.msg612813#msg612813]Quote from: Duffle on Feb 10, 2009, 12:02AM[/url]I was under the impression that the Shires small bore was based on the Williams 6 - how do they compare?.......

A Williams 6, a Minick 100H, some 6Hs...all went into the planning stages of Steve's .500s, plus others I am sure.

How do Shires .500s compare to Earl Williams 6s? Of course...it depends on which Shires you are playing. There are too many available alloys, weights, leadpipes, slide weights, tuning slidesb ells sizes etc. for there to even be a "Shires .500".

But as one who has played many of them who is also an ex-Williams 6 player (My Williams 6 went into the case the day my Shires .500 came home.), my take on the Shires .500s is that it they all play "bigger" than the Williams models. Less restrictive, maybe a tad slower responding than the Williams horns but able to keep the core of the sound WAY past what Williams horns will handle in terms of volume. On the other hand,  thew Williams is an easier horn to play. A little less effortful and a little more forgiving.

My take on the Shires horns that I have put together?

The .500…
by ttf_sabutin
Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:13 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
Topic: Favorite exercise
Replies: 25
Views: 8340

Favorite exercise

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=44441.msg615692#msg615692]Quote from: Tobbe on Feb 22, 2009, 05:45AM[/url]I've been thinking for a while about putting together a book in pdf format with favorite exercises from all of the members in this forum. Of course, if all of us give me an exercise it will result in an unreadable book due to the size of it...
Is this a good idea?
Are there enough interested participants and contributors for this?
Enough readers/players?

My idea is to somehow collect them and then put them all together for all of us to download.
So, should I go on or just forget it?
All inputs are welcome.

Maybe this has been done in the past prior me joining this forum, if so, please forgive me.


I'll contribute a couple.

Sam
by ttf_sabutin
Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:50 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany
Topic: a discussion of music and the trombone
Replies: 117
Views: 31252

a discussion of music and the trombone

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=51494.msg851732#msg851732]Quote from: D Gibson on Dec 10, 2011, 06:01AM[/url]
---quote---

I love musical dissonance. I don't feel the same way about personal dissonance, which is something I observe or encounter on TTF way more than I would prefer. Personal dissonance isn't just some naturally occurring obstacle...it's manufactured and fueled and sustained. It's not FUN to me.


Personal dissonance.

Musical dissonance.

You can't have one without the other.

Music reflects human experience and human experience reflects the way that the universe works.

Without dissonance, no consonance. No neutrality, either.

Neutrality...the state of almost all of the universe in relation to any infinitesimal part of it, whether that part is itself involved in a state of neutrality, consonance or dissonance. I see a current state of dissonance in the culture regarding the music(s) to which it pays most attention and I also see a larger, more serious state of dissonance in it regarding more practical matters such as life and death, war and peace, criminality and good behaviour in a societal sense, etc. The ancient Greeks...and many other cultures...believed that the type of music to which…
by ttf_sabutin
Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:30 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany
Topic: a discussion of music and the trombone
Replies: 117
Views: 31252

a discussion of music and the trombone

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=51494.msg851648#msg851648]Quote from: brucolli on Dec 09, 2011, 03:19PM[/url]Sam, you really seem to have an axe to grind about the academic new music situation in the states. It must be really bad!
Of course there is bullcrap everywhere but, in general I can't say this about my experiences here in Europe.
My ears tell me otherwise.

Quote---snip---

Your analogies of Joyce and Faulkner were brilliant. Why are people so accepting of modernism in art and literature but not music? I really want to understand why so many people (colleagues even) hate the music that I love.
Why?

Well...number one, they are not "so accepting of modernism in art and literature but not music." Not in any popular, paying sense. And number two, the path breaking so-called linguistic modernists like Joyce, Faulkner and Burroughs took recognizable syntax and pumped it up and/or sideways a notch or two. So did the equally so-called "modern" painters. For example, Picasso's portraits are still people and his still lifes are still objects. He just presented another view. Most of the "New Music" that I hear? I don't care if it's electronic, acoustic or any combination of the two, it no longer relates to the…
by ttf_sabutin
Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:58 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany
Topic: a discussion of music and the trombone
Replies: 117
Views: 31252

a discussion of music and the trombone

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=51494.msg851644#msg851644]Quote from: brucolli on Dec 09, 2011, 02:25PM[/url]I'm sorry you have experienced this, Sam. I never have.
Maybe that's what I like so much about my new music colleagues, they are totally committed to doing their best with no ego conflicts. This is not the case in the orchestras I have played in.

Bruce

I'm not all that knocked out by the mainstream orchestral scene, either. I fact, I see little difference in terms of attitude. It's just a financial difference. By and large the successful orchestral musicians are simply better hustlers.

So it goes.

S.
by ttf_sabutin
Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:36 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany
Topic: a discussion of music and the trombone
Replies: 117
Views: 31252

a discussion of music and the trombone

You write:

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=51494.msg851540#msg851540]Quote from: brucolli on Dec 09, 2011, 06:08AM[/url]I'm starting to get sick of the whole mess here, where egos are more important than the music.

Bruce
"...egos are more important than the music."

Strangely enough, that is precisely how I feel about what I have seen and experienced in the academic/New Music scene in general.

Hmmmm....

S.
by ttf_sabutin
Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:21 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany
Topic: a discussion of music and the trombone
Replies: 117
Views: 31252

a discussion of music and the trombone

More on so-called "quarter tones":

You want to witness a truly masterful use of idiomatic quarter tones and other non-tempered notes?

Tune into the "A Skaggs Family Christmas" show. It's available on RFDTV and probably elsewhere on cable as well. Yeah. I know. Don't turn your nose up at this suggestion if you are in any way curious about what I have been saying. Ricky Skaggs and the people with whom he has surrounded himself for several decades are so deep into the bluegrass/country tradition that their sheer musicality is awe inspiring. Especially Ricky Skaggs, who could no more sing a bad or awkward note than could Sinatra in his prime, Ray Charles or Jessye Norman.

"Corny?"

Only if you are deaf to the eternal progression of the overtone series.

"New music?"

Every time they lay hands on it.

Bet on it.

Wake the frack up.

It's everywhere...except where many of you are searching.

S.
by ttf_sabutin
Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:09 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany
Topic: a discussion of music and the trombone
Replies: 117
Views: 31252

a discussion of music and the trombone

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=51494.msg728760#msg728760]Quote from: Piano man on May 20, 2010, 12:41PM[/url]A lot of the discussion on the forum has to do with conventional technique--developing slide and articulation technique that makes the trombone sound closer to the articulation of other instruments. Makes sense, because that's the application most of us are going to see.

Still, one of the reasons most players don't use quarter-tones is that they're too hard to play. They're a snap on trombone. How many guys use them? Trumpet and sax players sometimes use smooth glissandos to show off their technique--trombonists seem to avoid them because they're too easy.

---snip---
"Quarter tones," eh?

Now...if you are measuring in an academic sense, they are hard to play. In fact, only machines (and occasionally people who want to play like machines, I suppose) can actually play them accurately.

But as blue notes? As bends and idiomatic content the world over? As they appear in the untempered harmonic series? They are as common as an A 440. Quarter tones, eighth tones, even some semi-mythical note like a 264th tone? No matter. Sinatra sang them; Pops played and sang them and every musician with any blues roots who doesn't play…
by ttf_sabutin
Fri May 14, 2010 8:19 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany
Topic: a discussion of music and the trombone
Replies: 117
Views: 31252

a discussion of music and the trombone

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=51494.msg726840#msg726840]Quote from: Chris Fidler on May 14, 2010, 05:03AM[/url]And just how much of a part do you think the drugs and alcohol played in their meditation, balance and musical spirit?????

Getting high is an uneducated attempt to reach a meditational state, Chris. When I say "uneducated" I mean it in the following sense.

Once an interviewer asked Mohandas Gandhi what he thought of Western Civilization.

His answer? "I think that it would be a very good idea."

Like dat.

Getting high...been there, baby, bet on it...actually works on a certain level to temporarily redistribute (and to some degree even supercharge) a human being's energies through certain centers. Different drugs (and different combinations of drugs as well) affect individuals in varying ways, but basically they all are energy redistributors. If one is not taught any path but the drug route to deal with this necessity as a musician...and by "necessity" I mean that playing on the level of say Charlie Parker is simply not a "natural" thing or it would be much more common...then this is the path that a passionately committed musician will take.

I do not despise or even presume to judge those great musicians…
by ttf_sabutin
Thu May 13, 2010 6:03 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany
Topic: a discussion of music and the trombone
Replies: 117
Views: 31252

a discussion of music and the trombone

If one approaches the playing of a musical instrument...any musical instrument, including the voice...as a sort of meditational practice, then during the times that one successfully achieves this state all of the above questions become moot.

You jes' play.

Now of course, some people who are familiar w/my books or what I have written on the web over he last 8 years or so might well respond "Yeah. Right. 265 pages of incredibly detailed information on how to play the trombone. How to hold it; how to build an embouchure; how to move the slide, etc. Web posting after web posting about the importance of equipment and how to choose it. Arguments galore with various other posters. I got yer "meditation". Right here!!!"

This sort of response would stem from an incomplete understanding of the idea of "meditation". Meditation is not necessarily a passive, sitting-and-waiting act. There are meditations in movement and even meditations in combat. (Read "The Book of Five Rings" by Musashi Miyamoto for all that you might need to know about that idea.)

I speak a great deal about internalizing the reactive motions that are involved in playing a brass instrument through the application of good time. Time, understanding and practice. But...why do this? Why make this effort? In order to excel at playing a badly written, repetitive Broadway show or deal with one's…
by ttf_sabutin
Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:07 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
Topic: buzzing issues
Replies: 43
Views: 16685

buzzing issues

QuoteWell sure. While the regular ensemble teacher struggles with "do[ing] it better" and "try[ing] to understand how it works", if they keep trying this in their ensemble they will lose the students and lose their job. Keep it moving and don't make your mistakes hinder the students any more then necessary.
Where is this "mistake", BOB?

In your own practice and/or teaching?

I don't see any  mistakes, myself.

Not in this situation.

I know what works and what doesn't, on long and consistent experience.

QuoteOtherwise it's like if I try to hit a note above my range during a jazz solo. The audience ain't going to stay and listen if I just keep trying to hit that note over and over. What's more important, hitting that note or playing a good solo? Miss the note? Forget about it and play that solo.
Take the chance.

Solo or teaching.

No risk, no gain.

That's my philosophy, anyway.

How have I not backed my posiition up?

In my own life and career. And on the net. Do a search. I'm nothing if not "backed up."

Over and over and over again.
…
by ttf_sabutin
Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:26 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
Topic: buzzing issues
Replies: 43
Views: 16685

buzzing issues

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=53031.msg773464#msg773464]Quote from: B0B on Dec 08, 2010, 05:53PM[/url]Pretty easy to reconcile.

The earlier one is simply a shorter version, without the explanation of why. The poster's been trying this method, hasn't worked... ok, stop and move on. Later, yes it has some good aspects but in this case the negatives outweigh the good and he's not making any ground. Stop and move on. With a bit more about teaching added in as well.

Neither post really conflicts with the other.

Is there part of that you disagree with?

Take care,
B0B

Yes, there is.

This part:

QuoteDon't do it.

Not "Do it better."

Not "Try to understand how it works."

Just "Don't do it.["

Here.

QuoteI have a problem with atacks in the middle range.
Answer:

QuoteDon't do it.
Bullshite.

Understand!!!

You're all over the place.

End of conversation.

S.

by ttf_sabutin
Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:13 pm
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
Topic: buzzing issues
Replies: 43
Views: 16685

buzzing issues

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=53031.msg773447#msg773447]Quote from: B0B on Dec 08, 2010, 03:47PM[/url]To clarify a bit here-

Buzzing, especially free buzzing, is very much a double edged sword.

Used properly, removing the trombone and sometimes the mouthpiece can help refine what the body's job is in the equation. To do that however, you must have a strong concept of what the body's job actually is first. Take away the horn, take away the mouthpiece, and ask someone to practice buzzing who really doesn't know how to play... To call that a can of worms would be an understatement. The limitations and resistance of the horn and mouthpiece are often what help young players bring their bodies in line. They work within those limitations to improve their sound, range, and ability, and slowly figure out how to make an embouchure. Slowly figure out how to breathe and blow. Without those limitations... it's easy to begin to experiment with things you could never do on a horn. It's easy to form an embouchure that has nothing to do with trombone playing. It's easy to do everything wrong.

Can buzzing help- even beginners?

Yes, It can.

I've found it can be a wonderful help when a…
by ttf_sabutin
Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:54 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
Topic: buzzing issues
Replies: 43
Views: 16685

buzzing issues

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=53031.msg773391#msg773391]Quote from: Doug Elliott on Dec 08, 2010, 10:35AM[/url]There are at least 2 problems with that.

Upstream (low placement) embouchures shouyld never try to relate their buzz to their playing, because doing so will encourage their mouthpiece placement toward a place it doesn't belong.

---snip---
Possibly. But with the addition of rim-based buzzing (rim buzzing, m'pce buzzing and playing the horn as we normally play it, m'pce in) and never overdoing the freebuzzing w/out relating it to the rim in some maner, wrong m'pce setting problems are largely ameliorated.

It's all a compromise between and among the physical setup, the rim, the resistance provided by the equipment and the resistance that the player provides with his soft machine from the lips right on back into the resonance chamber. I probably have not seen as many students as have you on a regular basis...most of my teaching is one-off as I travel or they come to NYC...but I have yet to see a fairly well developed brass player on any instrument who could not at least begin to freebuzz, relate it to the rim/m'pce/horn and gain something from the experience.

Young kids? I stick with…
by ttf_sabutin
Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:42 am
Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
Topic: buzzing issues
Replies: 43
Views: 16685

buzzing issues

[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=53031.msg773313#msg773313]Quote from: savio on Dec 08, 2010, 04:07AM[/url]I read some more in your articles and book and tried it some more. To my surprise I did it better than I thought I could do.
This is what I have been saying, savio. It's really not that hard to do, it's just...new to people. I teach 10 year olds using the exact same approaches and they have no trouble with them at all. Why? Because they don't know that they're not supposed to be able to do them.

QuoteTo put the mouthpiece loose in the receiver and then take it slowly out works OK for my. Surprise. I got the same pitch when moving mouthpiece out. Surprise NR. 2 was I did it very well from Bb  [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/Line2.gif[/img] up to  [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/Space5.gif[/img] octave up !! But low F  [img]
  • Jump to post
    • by ttf_sabutin
    Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:36 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
    Topic: buzzing issues
    Replies: 43
    Views: 16685

    buzzing issues

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=53031.msg773306#msg773306]Quote from: savio on Dec 08, 2010, 01:04AM[/url]Sam, isn't it so there is different needs for different individuals. Many here tells about a "none buzz" approach. Use what works, eh?
    That is not the problem, savio.

    The problem is bad information about buzzing. Information that was repeated after my thorough answer to it when it was posted he first time w/mo reference whatsoever to any opposition to the idea of "It's only good for high partials and smaller m'pces."

    QuoteFor me it works OK without buzzing.
    Great. Try everything; use what works.

    But if you are going to "try everything", and least try it right.

    And if someone is going to post ridiculous pseudo-"information" as fact and I know damned well that it is not fact, I'm going to call him on it. If he continues to publicly clomp clomp clomp through the minefields of self-deception after being called on it, I am going to call him on it even harder.

    That's the way it works.

    The free competition of ideas.

    What if he had said that the earth is flat? With a straight face…
    by ttf_sabutin
    Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:03 pm
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
    Topic: buzzing issues
    Replies: 43
    Views: 16685

    buzzing issues

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=53031.msg773269#msg773269]Quote from: JP on Dec 07, 2010, 06:58PM[/url]I agree with that, I think the smaller the mpc, the more attention you spend to "buzzing". The routines I do, I spend about 3 minutes (usually in the car) on the mpc.

    With students, if they are having problems finding upper reg notes, I add a little mpc stuff. But not much.

    Unbelievable.

    Just clomp clomp clomping on along regardless of what anyone else says.

    I personally have only one thing left to say besides what I said above...aimed at those young players who are trying to figure things out.

    When you meet people who only have one lick...teachers, other players, whosever...beware. They will run their Johny One-Note game on you if you allow them to do so. Look at their credentials, first of all. Who they have played with, what their real work and teaching experience has been. Then...listen to their playing. It is almost always as one-dimensional as their teaching. Usually safe but sorry.

    You'll often find them in positions of authority...teachers, administrators, bosses...yes (GASP!!!) even "moderators." They fall upwards in the system because they mostly don't really work at what…
    by ttf_sabutin
    Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:16 pm
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
    Topic: buzzing issues
    Replies: 43
    Views: 16685

    buzzing issues

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=53031.msg772863#msg772863]Quote from: JP on Dec 05, 2010, 07:05PM[/url]I agree with that. I think the smaller the mpc the more attention players spend their time buzzing. Which is why trumpet players (and wannabee trombone/trumpet players) make it such a big deal. I think it helps understanding how to approach the higher partials (6th and above) and I think it helps train the ear to play in tune. I do about 3 minutes a day, usually in the car to wake up my chops. If I don't, I don't miss it.

    Not nearly as important to me as good solid sounding long tones for my arsenal.


    "...the smaller the mpc the more attention players spend their time buzzing?"

    Yeah?

    Why do you think that?

    I use it on tubas, bass trombones, orchestral trombones, .525 trombones, .508 trombones and .500 trombones...all w/very typical m'pce sizes for their bores. If I had a .485, an alto or or a contrabass I'd use it on them, too.

    Why?

    Because it works, of course.

    Duh.

    Sven wrote:

    QuoteBuzzing is not a “must”…
    by ttf_sabutin
    Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:29 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
    Topic: buzzing issues
    Replies: 43
    Views: 16685

    buzzing issues

    "Buzzing"...freebuzzing, cutoff rim buzzing, m'pce buzzing...works if done correctly. Any and all other fairly well recognized approaches to embouchure development and brass playing also work. The key phrase here is "if done correctly."

    Long story very short about all buzzing approaches...do not buzz anything that you do not almost immediately relate to the horn. Not until you get very, very good at the relating part, anyway. And the reverse. Free buzzes that come off of playing the horn, m'pce or cutoff rim will tend to be more "correct"...more well related...to how you play than will buzzes that are started w/out any reference to the rim at all. Particularly...do not free buzz w/out constantly relating it to the rim of whatever m'pce you are using. Cutoff rim, m'pce, or m'pce in the horn. It's the relationship between the freebuzz and the rim that allows some people to, as Doug says, immediately get it right...the relationship between their buzz and the rim. Some people have it immediately and some others do not. It can be learned, though.

    I say "it" can be learned, but in reality it should be stated as "they" can be learned. The relationships between buzzing and the rim...or more complicated yet, multiple rims if you are a doubler who uses different rims...are different for different people through multiple ranges.
    by ttf_sabutin
    Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:03 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications, and Maintenance
    Topic: interesting diagrams and instructions on care of instruments
    Replies: 17
    Views: 7640

    interesting diagrams and instructions on care of instruments

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=58135.msg833312#msg833312]Quote from: sly fox on Sep 10, 2011, 05:09AM[/url]---snip---

    not sure I would follow the recommendation to use gasoline as a solvent tho, it would work, but the  fumes are highly flammable.

    ---snip---
    I duuno about that...

    [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3071112/flamethrower-trombone.jpg[/img]

    Looks like fun to me!!!

    S.
    by ttf_sabutin
    Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:47 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Practice Room
    Topic: One part of my warmup/routine...
    Replies: 39
    Views: 11677

    One part of my warmup/routine...

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=58332.msg955774#msg955774]Quote from: Swingray on Jun 07, 2013, 01:43AM[/url]Does Vegasbound's Tommy Dorsey story point to the fact that warm ups are more mental than physical?


    No, I don't think so. It points to the fact that some people have a better natural embouchure than do others and it also points to the fact that some people's tissues tend to swell more than do those of others. I consider the most important function of a "warm-up" to be getting the lips to their normal swelling size. I of course do not mean that they should be battered to death...they just have to get to the size that is "normal" for a given player. Anyone who understands boxing knows that some boxers' faces swell very easily and that the faces of others never seem to have a mark on them even when they have been hit quite a bit. Us too.

    When you look at pictures of TD you can see that he has very thin lips...especially his upper lip.

    [img]
  • Jump to post
    • by ttf_sabutin
    Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:50 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces
    Topic: Best way to clean a mouthpiece?
    Replies: 24
    Views: 15089

    Best way to clean a mouthpiece?

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=59109.msg1208941#msg1208941]Quote from: mgladdish on Aug 19, 2017, 09:29AM[/url]Don't know quite what the etiquette is here with bumping old threads, but does anyone have any advice on how to get this any more clean?

    [img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/avnuq1uv2hhpdd4/dirty_mouthpiece.jpg?raw=1[/img]

    This is after I soaked it in boiling soapy water for 36 hours, then scrubbed it with a stiff brush and toothpaste.

    What should I try next?

    You could try a metal cleaner of some sort...silver cleaner if it's plated. (Remember to thoroughly clean out the chemical residue...I'd put it in a dishwasher myself.) If that doesn't work, it's probably corrosion. You could have a brass tech buff/chem-clean it, of course...it might ruin the m'pce, but on the other hand, it might make it better. Who ever really knows with these sorts of things until they're done?

    Not me...
  • Jump to post
    • by ttf_sabutin
    Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:18 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
    Topic: Jack Teagarden: Modern Trombone Studies
    Replies: 38
    Views: 13468

    Jack Teagarden: Modern Trombone Studies

    Got it. You have to hit the "Click here to start download from sendspace" button, not the big "DOWNLOAD" one. Duh.

    S.
    by ttf_sabutin
    Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:11 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy
    Topic: Jack Teagarden: Modern Trombone Studies
    Replies: 38
    Views: 13468

    Jack Teagarden: Modern Trombone Studies

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=59989.msg855373#msg855373]Quote from: monty on Jan 01, 2012, 05:55AM[/url]Sam,
    Did you try just renaming the file to something like teagarden.pdf?  Sometimes that will work.
    Yes. No go.

    S.

    If you open the file with a text editor and it starts with %PDF it is a pdf file and should be safe to rename.

    Peter.
    by ttf_sabutin
    Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:54 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists
    Topic: Remington High Register Exercise, my variation.
    Replies: 23
    Views: 9176

    Remington High Register Exercise, my variation.

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=62067.msg1052292#msg1052292]Quote from: WaltTrombone on Jan 12, 2015, 08:11AM[/url]The nose breathing bit and the second partial stuff are my additions, Sam.

    QuoteInfidel!!!

    Treason!!!

    HERETIC!!!
    Nice work, actually. Doesn't bother me a bit. Makes perfect sense. Just thought I'd beat the locksteppers to the punch.  [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/sing.gif[/img]
    by ttf_sabutin
    Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:06 pm
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists
    Topic: Remington High Register Exercise, my variation.
    Replies: 23
    Views: 9176

    Remington High Register Exercise, my variation.

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=62067.msg1052045#msg1052045]Quote from: WaltTrombone on Jan 10, 2015, 02:06PM[/url]Like Sam said, try adding that 7th partial (the 1st position Ab, 2nd -G, etc) to the pattern. Nobody says you have to go up that high, either. Make up your own patterns. Connect the high register with a more moderate register, and like Sam said, it won't hurt to approach it starting up high and working down, as well as how it's written.


    Sam, I don't think Remington had his students play these breathing only through their nose. My Remington experience is all secondhand, but my teachers never had ME do that, at any rate.
    I never heard of it either, and I was studying lower brass in Ithaca when Remington was still in ascendency at Eastman and only a couple of hours' drive away.  It sounds to me like someone conflated (or maybe better, confused) Remington's stuff and Carmine Caruso's approach. Not that it's a bad idea...it isn't, and I use it regularly with Remington-influenced exercises.


    QuoteI have my students try it that way to minimize shifts, and to help them maintain the feel of the higher setting, instead of starting to try and find that setting after taking a breath/making a…
    by ttf_sabutin
    Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:01 pm
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists
    Topic: Remington High Register Exercise, my variation.
    Replies: 23
    Views: 9176

    Remington High Register Exercise, my variation.

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=62067.msg1052004#msg1052004]Quote from: BGuttman on Jan 10, 2015, 11:11AM[/url]Actually, Sam, I do  run these exercises down through the single and double trigger ranges.  Not to build high register, though.  I use them so that more of the notes on trigger sound like the notes without.  There are some "stupid human tricks" where the trigger notes can make some very easy slide patterns.  I now have passable Bb, A, and Ab on the F side (at least they are comparable to my open notes, however bad they may be).

    I have the Colin Advanced Lip Flexibilities, which my first teacher told me was garbage and which you seem to quote often.
    No. Never paid much attention to Colin's stuff.  I learned the Remington flexibilities and ran with them.

    QuoteWhen I first got it the notes in the middle of the first exercise were only in my dreams.  Now I have a hope of playing them.

    I like your exercises. 

    But just like Remington's, they must be practiced intelligently.  There is no horn, mouthpiece, or exercise that will take a kid who sounds like a wounded moose with a top note of Eb above the bass staff and suddenly he's doing the "7 C's" (which for…
    by ttf_sabutin
    Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:56 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists
    Topic: Remington High Register Exercise, my variation.
    Replies: 23
    Views: 9176

    Remington High Register Exercise, my variation.

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=62067.msg1051972#msg1051972]Quote from: BGuttman on Jan 10, 2015, 08:57AM[/url]There was a logic behind Remington's Security exercise.

    In 7th position there is a little more resistance and this helps hit the higher note.  I wouldn't believe this if I did not experience it.

    Sam's exercises work great for maintenance.  For that matter, maybe they will work for developing the high range.  Try everything, use what works -- for you.

    More resistance in 7th? More resistance than in any other position?

    Not if you're playing it right there isn't. Not consistently measurably, not by the body anyway. His students were all playing 88Hs w/Remington m'pces and tight wraps/small rotors, so trigger notes would provide even more resistance. Why not have them play say trigger C after every positional repetition? ? Or if that's too low, trigger E? There'd be plenty more resistance that way, right? Hell, maybe everybody would magically jump up to  [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/TrebleClef.gif[/img] [img]
  • Jump to post
    • by ttf_sabutin
    Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:19 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists
    Topic: Remington High Register Exercise, my variation.
    Replies: 23
    Views: 9176

    Remington High Register Exercise, my variation.

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=62067.msg876698#msg876698]Quote from: WaltTrombone on Apr 22, 2012, 06:43AM[/url]Since Bruce is always plugging these, I figured that I'd post them up here for easier reference.

    Play each five bar phrase in one position, so, bars 1-5 in 7th, 6-10 in 6th, etc. For a maximum workout, play these WITHOUT taking the mouthpiece away from your chops to breathe. Leave your chops set in playing position and breathe through your nose, if it's not stuffed up. Each dotted half note should be held for as long as is comfortable. If you miss the top note, try that pattern again, once or twice. If you still can't hit it, move on to something else, and come back to this another time.

    This is an excellent beginning to a series of exercises that could free you from being stuck in the middle-lower register. I would strongly advise anyone who wants to have a really easy high register to take this idea and run with it from all directions and in all partials. A thorough version of my own take on it is in the "Harmonics" chapter of my book, [url=http://samburtis.com/sams-books/]Time, Balance and Connections[/url].

    …
    by ttf_sabutin
    Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:25 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists
    Topic: Pedal Note Benders
    Replies: 17
    Views: 6902

    Pedal Note Benders

    I went on a pedal note bender once. The hangover made me feel very...low.

    But seriously, folks...

    There are "partials" below the normal pedal range. Depending on the instrument, there is a B or C  double pedal in 1st position and equivalent notes in other "positions" (They are somewhat extended from our normal positions, but not a great deal.), the same general notes as a triple (or possibly more accurately a quadruple pedal), and the double pedal notes' perfect fifths above available as well.

    What Walt is doing is bending down from the normal pedal into the "perfect fifth above the double pedal" range and then bending down somewhat from that range as well. When he slurs down to the G, after the sound gets progressively weaker, the G pops out quite strongly. (Most larger trombones tend to have C-ish double and triple/quadruple pedals, so the G is actually being played on the "perfect fifth above the double pedal" partial. That's why his low "F#" going down begins to get relatively weak. Then he takes a breath and resets  a little into the "perfect fifth above the double pedal" partial. (They are not very well locked, of course. More on that later.) The F# immediately sounds much fuller. He ends on a big sounding F. Betcha if he let that F drift up a little with the same air it would sound even bigger…
    by ttf_sabutin
    Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:11 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications, and Maintenance
    Topic: The most recommended trombone techs
    Replies: 151
    Views: 277357

    The most recommended trombone techs

    In the NYC area?

    In no particular order...they are all very good:

    Chuck McAlexander
    Terry Pierce
    Josh Landress

    I have also heard good things about Wayne Tanabe, but he's at the Yamaha store and I don't know if he is free to work on other horns.

    I mostly go to Terry Pierce, but it's a matter of convenience as much as anything else...he lives fairly close to me. I would trust any of them with any work that I needed done on a brass instrument.

    S.

    P.S. Bob Hester in Texas is as knowledgeable a brass guy as I have ever talked to. I would trust him with anything as well. Bet on it.
    by ttf_sabutin
    Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:38 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
    Topic: Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
    Replies: 1195
    Views: 394222

    Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=73670.msg1205411#msg1205411]Quote from: modelerdc on Jul 28, 2017, 10:18PM[/url]---snip---

    My way of thinking of it is the .525 slide with a 8 inch bell is like a big little horn, especially if played with a mouthpiece typical of a small tenor trombone. A great commmerical horn, for those situations that would call for one trombone only, or for musical pit work, solos etc.  The .525 bore slide with one of the 8 1/2 inch bells plays like a scaled down big horn, especially is a somewhat large mouthpiece, such as a Bach 5GS is used. Great when you want a large bore sound, but more focus, efficient, and color than the typical large bore. The small bell with the large slide, or course plays well, but it's darker without being bigger, so I don't see much advantage.

    ---snip---
    Precisely my own approach...my Shires .525 is big small horn w/the 8" 2RVE bell and a small big horn with the 2RVE 8.5". I don't change m'pces on it because I have a .508 Shires that I use as sort of a "medium large" small bore, but in ensembles w/the .525 (My favorite horn, by far.)...usually on 3rd parts in 4 trombone sections...if I want to…
    by ttf_sabutin
    Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:06 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
    Topic: Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
    Replies: 1195
    Views: 394222

    Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=73670.msg1204565#msg1204565]Quote from: mr.deacon on Jul 23, 2017, 12:18AM[/url]Just a couple questions regarding weight of a bell.

    ---snip---

    Third question... Besides response differences does having a lighter bell effect the color of a horn? More high or low frequencies? ect...

    This is a difficult question to answer. I have put together six different horns at Shires and played all sorts of bells in the process. There are so many interactions going on, so many variables in the bell alone...alloys, soldered or unsoldered beads, bell diameters and so on. Instead of speaking about frequencies, I would say very generally that lighter bells change the mass of the sound, especially as the volumes increase. The mid-range, mid-volume mass...the characteristic sound of the horn, its sonic "weight"...changes as it is played louder. It becomes less "massy," maybe a little more dispersed than a regular weight bell up to a given volume point. Then it begins to overblow. The attacks change, too. The are less aggressive, more like the rest of the note.

    For me, there seems to be a happy medium. Too heavy and too light both restrict the ability to color the sound, which is important for a soloist or a lead player as far as…
    by ttf_sabutin
    Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:34 pm
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
    Topic: Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
    Replies: 1195
    Views: 394222

    Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=73670.msg1188735#msg1188735]Quote from: Duffle on Apr 09, 2017, 08:40AM[/url]My main focus was on the 7 and 8 red bells and how they compare with other Shires red bells. They don't seem to be as popular as the 7 Y and G models or some of the other red bells. I was wonder why that might be and what their playing characteristics might be. I know solder in the rim makes a difference but why for example are folks playing the 2RVE more then the 7RLW or 8RLW?.....

    Maybe because the 2RVE has playing characteristics that are more like classic pre-WWII/post-WWII red brass Conns...especially the .525 + .547 Conns of that era...than any other horn that has been on the modern market except perhaps some of Gary Greenhoe's designs?

    People who grew up playing horns like that...myself included...fell in love with their sound and response characteristics. There were problems with the horns as venues got bigger and orchestras got...I guess "blattier" would fill the bill...but both Gary Greenhoe and Steve Shires seemed to find ways to calm them down a  little when pushed.

    That's my take on it, anyway.

    S.
    by ttf_sabutin
    Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:30 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
    Topic: Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
    Replies: 1195
    Views: 394222

    Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=73670.msg1188616#msg1188616]Quote from: BillO on Apr 08, 2017, 11:33AM[/url]Not replying for Ben, but just my observations.

    The 7's are soldered bead bells, the 2's and 8's are unsoldered bead.  For me an unsoldered bead, like a [s]King 4B or[/s] Conn 88H will have more responsive articulation than a soldered bead.  They play delicately more easily than the soldered ones.  As well a soldered bead bell will generally hold their characteristic tone over a much broader dynamic range.  They don't 'light up' as early as an unsoldered bell.  The soldered bead bell tends to slot a little more deeply for me.  I find these general characteristics true of any soldered vs. unsoldered bead horns, no matter what the make or material.  Think Bach 42B vs Conn 88H.

    I don't know what specifically is different between a 2 and an 8 though, other than the way the 2 pieces are put together.

    p.s.  I have never known a unsolderd bead bell to suffer from acid bleed - not that that makes any difference to the way they play.  Just another observation.


    P.S.  Update - apparently I have a very odd King 4B...

    I have a 1YM and a 2GM…
    by ttf_sabutin
    Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:39 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
    Topic: Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
    Replies: 1195
    Views: 394222

    Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

    Given that Shires horns almost always play "larger" than their competition at the same bore size, one could most certainly put together a .508 Shires horn w/an 8" bell that would come very close to sounding...and playing...like a mainstream .525 bore instrument,especially if used with a fairly large m'pce.

    S.


    P.S. I haven't had much luck with a large shank receiver on my .525...it just makes it play like a less focused and somewhat weaker .547...so I don't think a large shank receiver on a .508/.525 would be much good, but you never know without trying.
    by ttf_sabutin
    Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:35 pm
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
    Topic: Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
    Replies: 1195
    Views: 394222

    Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=73670.msg1183473#msg1183473]Quote from: tbathras on Mar 05, 2017, 08:11AM[/url]Tangentially related, I tried out a 2RVE 8" bell at the factory, with a 525 slide and I absolutely loved it.

    Me too. My go-to horn, all other things being equal.

    S.

    P.S. Or the same bell in 8.5 size. A little more...dispersed. In a good way. Fills the room more than coming off the back wall.
    by ttf_sabutin
    Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:45 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
    Topic: Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
    Replies: 1195
    Views: 394222

    Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=73670.msg1155433#msg1155433]Quote from: bigeg on Sep 13, 2016, 07:31AM[/url]Hi Ben,
    I've just received delivery of a Michael Davis + horn from hornguys and am loving it and how easy it is to play. It came with a Shires 11c mouthpiece which plays very nicely...great flexibility and a very lively sound with snappy articulations. Compared to my recent Bach 11c (a more focussed, compact sound for me) it seems quite a bit bigger in diameter and slightly deeper. Can you shed any light on the background of the design on the Shires 11c? Is it a copy of an old 11c at all?

    I doubt it. I have accumulated a number of really good 11Cs from many periods of time and the Shires 11C doesn't feel, play or sound like any of them. Not a bad m'pce, just not very much like a Bach 11C. And you're right...it's bigger.

    S.
    by ttf_sabutin
    Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:56 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
    Topic: Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
    Replies: 1195
    Views: 394222

    Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=73670.msg1143093#msg1143093]Quote from: Duffle on Jun 28, 2016, 08:48AM[/url]Yes, gold brass slide tubes and tuning slide can be overkill sometimes. Shires are not Conns. Gold brass outer slide tubes work well on a Conn but at least for me on a Shires they tend to deaden the sound too much. For me........

    Dunno about the Conn thing, but I'm with you on Shires horns.

    S.
    by ttf_sabutin
    Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:59 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
    Topic: Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
    Replies: 1195
    Views: 394222

    Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=73670.msg1111040#msg1111040]Quote from: Dantheman on Dec 13, 2015, 09:29PM[/url]I have a brand new Shires .500 bore and I'm absolutely in love with it.

    There are a couple of rather disappointing problems though.

    1) When I put my 2.5 lead pipe in, the inner slide legs splay out. ie. the slide goes out of alignment. Really this should not happen.

    2) Also it arrived with two #2 pipes. Shouldn't it have 3 different pipes?

    3) Lastly and I don't really care about this too much, but the lacquer is quite badly worn already on the gooseneck and hand grip. This is after only 3 weeks of playing. Is this normal?

    Unfortunately I live in South Africa so shipping this horn back is not an option for me at this stage and the warranty is therefore pretty useless to me.

    Do you have any suggestions as to what I should do?


    Dan...

    Ben's answers are spot on.

    As far as the lacquer is concerned...take it off!!! The horns play better w/out it as far as I am concerned. Even the light lacquering that…
    by ttf_sabutin
    Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:35 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
    Topic: Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
    Replies: 1195
    Views: 394222

    Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=73670.msg1110162#msg1110162]Quote from: hyperbolica on Dec 09, 2015, 06:28AM[/url]Thanks for that, coming from someone who plays it, it's helpful. I'm not necessarily looking for a little big horn, but more of an everything bagel. I've already got a nice 88h w/ 547 and 525, but haven't played 547 for a year now. I don't really play in situations where I need a ton of volume, in fact, I'm usually looking to dial things back. I'm sure I'll get up north to test some combos out. I think I'm done with trying to find and mod vintage horns to taste.

    Thanks again.

    When you make your plans, make sure Ben is going to be there. He is very, very good at leading people through the near-infinity of Shires modular choices. I'm sure here are others here who can help, but he plays everything imaginable in very high-level, real-life circumstances.

    S.

    S.
    by ttf_sabutin
    Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:55 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
    Topic: Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
    Replies: 1195
    Views: 394222

    Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

    Ben pins it.

    I have a .525 w/an 8" 2RVE bell, a regular weight brass slide and a TruBore. It is definitely a "little big horn," not an everything one and as a result it isn't the ideal blending horn on lower parts in bright trombone sections. I am sure that altering it as Ben suggests would make it more of an everything horn, but it's my true voice so I don't mess with it except sometimes when I put an 8.5" 2RVE bell on it for an even "bigger"...actually slightly more dispersed and darker...sound.

    Chocolate for the ears.

    As he says, those other bells do just that and so do the slides he mentions. I've never much messed w/other triggers than the TrueBore nor have I played large receiver leadpipes on it. I have a .547 setup with a lighter weight slide and the 8.5" bell that I mentioned above if I want a large shank kind of blow.

    I love the 7 bells for all around work although they don't seem to get as loud as I might like in extreme situations. I have a 1YM bell that'll curl your toes for that sort of thing, but it mellows out nicely at lower volumes.

    Dassit...that's all I know on this.

    …
    by ttf_sabutin
    Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:26 pm
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
    Topic: Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
    Replies: 1195
    Views: 394222

    Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=73670.msg1099604#msg1099604]Quote from: ah64pilot on Oct 02, 2015, 04:51PM[/url]What is the usual trial time for equipment? I "found" a couple lead pipes (2.0 & 2.5) and am trying to decide between them. So far I'm liking the smaller of the 2 but I have GB piece coming next week that I'd like to try on both pipes.

    When do you feel comfortable making the decision been two pieces like this? They both sound great, the 2.0 has a little better response for now but as I grow as a player...who knows?

    Anyone want to buy a Shires 1.5 large bore lead pipe?  [img]http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/evil.gif[/img]

    Keep it. Y'never know...

    S.
    by ttf_sabutin
    Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:33 pm
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
    Topic: Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
    Replies: 1195
    Views: 394222

    Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=73670.msg1095228#msg1095228]Quote from: griffinben on Sep 01, 2015, 10:32AM[/url]All bells are not created equal.  They are a balance of their taper and, of course, the rest of the horn.  IN shires-land, the 7.75" does what most other 8" bells do on other comparable bore instruments: they provide a full sound that is also flexible enough to play in a wide variety of circumstances.  Our 8" bells are little more limited, sounding more like little big horns.  I didn't believe it until I tried otherwise identical models back to back myself, but there it is.  And it's been reaffirmed many times over during my time here.

    Both the Michael Davis and Michael Davis Plus models come with only one leadpipe, a 1.5 (in their respective bore sizes).  This is the pipe that MD plays and selected for this instrument and the instrument works hand in hand with it.  As such, it is the only pipe that comes with the horn (though we can and will make other leadpipes available for purchase separately).

    The horn wasn't specifically designed to be used without a leadpipe, the balance is similar to other horns except that it is extremely lightweight.  This does make it a bit easier to balance without the weight in my opinion.  MD does…
    by ttf_sabutin
    Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:24 am
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
    Topic: Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
    Replies: 1195
    Views: 394222

    Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=73670.msg1094064#msg1094064]Quote from: Gabe Langfur on Aug 25, 2015, 05:27AM[/url]Are you sure you're talking about the MD Plus, Sam? That's an additional model with a .508 slide and 8" bell, not the original with the .495 slide and 7.5" bell.

    My bad, Gabe. I missed the word "plus." Thanks. I will delete the other post after I say something about the .508 bore plus model.

    I like it a lot. Much more powerful than the smaller one; much more usable as an acoustic horn with some projecting power. Very 3B-ish but without some of the flaws of many 3Bs...not all 3Bs, though...and with a more complex sound. The only drawback, I think...and you might not call it a drawback...is the relative simplicity of the sound of a yellow brass bell 3B allows it to attack at fairly high volumes like a whip. SMACK!!! Right in your face. A good thing in some respects. I would love to spend some real time w/one of these horns. My .508 is the only size of all of my Shires horns that doesn't quite work for me. I think this one might.

    S.
    by ttf_sabutin
    Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:10 pm
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
    Topic: Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
    Replies: 1195
    Views: 394222

    Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=73670.msg1093971#msg1093971]Quote from: louilou on Aug 24, 2015, 01:22PM[/url]What is the general feel of the Michael Davis Plus trombone? Does it play like a 3B, or more like a Bach or Conn?

    Regards, and thanks for the great information about Shires trombones.

    [s]More like a very lightweight 2B or 2B+, to me.[/s]

    I blew this one. Missed the word "Plus" in the question. Duh. Gabe pointed this out to me. Thanks, Gabe. I wrote a whole 'nother answer several posts down from here.

    S.
    by ttf_sabutin
    Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:59 pm
    Forum: TTF Archives / TTF Archives / Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments
    Topic: Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
    Replies: 1195
    Views: 394222

    Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

    [url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=73670.msg1089564#msg1089564]Quote from: griffinben on Jul 27, 2015, 08:26AM[/url]
    I find the type 7 bells to have a more subtle flavor than the type 1 bells.  The type 1 are very straightforward and direct, they present their inherent character to the player and audience.  The type 7 bells are more subtle.  They blend a little easier and their character is not quite as direct.  The type 7 bells have become our most poplar for this reason, but I find some players with strong, solo-istic personalities really gravitate to the type 1 bells still (and the type 2 as well).
    Precisely right.

    I use my older type 1 bell as a dominant lead horn/solo horn. It is me, unalloyed and in your face.

    I use my newer type 7 bell as more of a "blending" lead and solo horn. Not as dominant, overall more cooperative in a timbral sense. "Prettier" as opposed to "Holy SH!T!!!"

    Both very useful; both very beautiful.

    Like dat.

    S.