TromboneChat

ttf_sabutin

…is what my embouchure calls for, but everything gets all fuzzy an non-articulate when switching to the smaller of the two.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't lip structure have most of everthing to do with comfortablility and mouthpiece size?
I am not totally convinced of that, Mr. Demon. When someone with lips like Louis Armstrong can play a trumpet m'pce brilliantly?

~~[img]~~http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/sabutin/LouisArmstrong-2.jpg[/img]

Just sayin'.

In my own experience I have doubled quite effectively on tenor trombone (6.5 AL originally) and orchestral-sized tubas since I was in the 7th grade. I didn't know that I couldn't do this, so I just went ahead and did it. Since then I have put on about over 100 lbs of flesh and bone...I'm not fat, but I am certainly bigger in every dimension. I still feel very comfortable on a 6.5-ish rim, but as a professional lower brass doubler I also play 11C-ish m'pces, 12Cs,3, 4 and 5-ish rims and large bass trombone and…

ttf_sabutin

~~[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=28950.msg607989#msg607989]~~Quote from: DaveAshley on Jan 19, 2009, 07:05PM[/url]Yep - it's 'Sabutin' himself as a pretty mature-sounding 21 year-old. This was from a Japanese TV broadcast back in 1967. It is indeed Ernie Watts playing alto and the trumpet player on the left is Chuck Findley.

Or...it may be the original broadcast of an Ed Sullivan Show that has been retitled in Japanese. I'm really not sure. That Far Eastern trip was such a rush of experiences...I mean, I had never been east of Buffalo...and I am fuzzy on whether the several concerts that we did there were taped.

Either way...even Buddy sounds good. It's in 6/8 so's he couldn't use all of his stock licks and actually had to swing instead.

The more I look at it the more I think it might be the Sullivan Show, because when we went to Asia the lead player... Jack Spurlock (maybe?)...suddenly decided that he had taken enough of Buddy's guff and pulled out the day before we were supposed to leave. We got a Japanese player to play the 2nd book...I had to teach him the book in 3 languages because his girlfriend spoke French and Japanese and I spoke English…

ttf_sabutin

Anybody...

Listen...I am trying to contact the person who posted that youtube clip above. Someone named kimbiza. I am running into some sort of problem with youtube's sign-in thing. I keep getting a note to verify my email address but when I do, 2 minutes later I get the same note. So...anyone who has a functioning youtube subscription...would you do me a favor and drop that kimbiza person a note saying I would like to speak with him or her? Plus my email address?

<[url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url]>

Say that I am the guy who wrote and performed the piece (Give my name, Sam Burtis), that I would like to thank whoever put together that beautiful, heartfelt video, and that I have been trying to find Cleve Pozar for going on three years.

Thanks...

Sam

ttf_sabutin

…things that are more form-fitted, right? Just because it makes space easier to figure out and allocate?

No.

Shape-fitted is better.

It's all about mass. Space taken. Not shape. I use the SKB Pro Universal Trombone Case.

~~[img]~~http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/sabutin/SKBProUniversalTenorTromboneCase.jpg[/img]

A really funky-looking one that looks like it has gone through the Peloponnesian Wars. It not only looks like it is not worth stealing, it looks like maybe it would bite you if you tried.

Here is a picture of a box case.

~~[img]~~http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/sabutin/Bachcase.jpg[/img]

More mass. Rectangular rather than form-fitted to some degree. Less room to stuff coats, blankets, pillows etc.

Yup.

S.

ttf_sabutin

…index.php?topic=43965.msg650178#msg650178]Quote from: jnoxon on Jul 09, 2009, 09:21AM[/url]Might be big but it works for me, fairly well anyway. Have not found anything better yet. I dont use that horn more than once or twice a year.

Earl made the Wallace Williams from about 1925 to about 1938 or 1939. He then went to work for Department of Defense, then known as the War Department until 1946. He was working on a project drawing aluminium shafts for arrows that were air, or hydrauliclly launched. These were designed for about a mile or more range. He also did something with telescopic brass tubing. When the war was over and the projects ceased he was given an enourmous amount of sheet and tube cartridge brass which he continued to make horns with until his death in 1976. When Bob (son) died in 1979 Larry Minnick ended up with the brass.

I have some info on Spike Wallace I have scanned and could email to you if I have not already done so?

j

I would love to see that info. Please email it me at [url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url] if you find a spare moment or two.

Thanks...

S.

ttf_Piano man

@Sabutin:

Ricky Scaggs is amazing. I was flipping through channels years ago and stumbled across his band playing. I was familiar with his name but in my mind lumped him together with other radio country acts, which I generally don't listen to. His band made my jaw drop. Every time you thought you heard the best country solo in history, the next guy would play something better.

ttf_sabutin

…viewing on your screen:
~~[url=http://www.sendspace.com/file/olrvj7]~~http://www.sendspace.com/file/olrvj7[/url]

And here's a very large version (48.7MB) that should be suitable for printing if you so desire.
~~[url=http://www.sendspace.com/file/sc8fih]~~http://www.sendspace.com/file/sc8fih[/url]

If you don't have a fast internet connection, you don't want the large version!

I am not sure how long sendspace maintains uploaded files, so if you're interested you might want to download it soon.

I am a Mac user, and I cannot view these files. They download as <iLividSetupV1-1.exe>. If they are .pdfs then please send the smaller one to me in .pdf form by email. ([url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url]) I can put it up on my Dropbox public area and anyone can access it.

Or...tell me how I can open the <iLividSetupV1-1.exe> file on a Mac. I'd love to see what Teagarden had to say.

Thanks...

Sam

ttf_sabutin

~~[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=100907.msg1202098#msg1202098]~~Quote from: Dixieland57 on Jul 06, 2017, 03:05AM[/url]Hope Sabutin look at this post!

I have been following it, but since wasn't there, it's all conjecture as far as I am concerned. I'm a seat of the pants trombonist. I've been fooled too many times...horns with bad reputations that played well and sounded good, the reverse...

So it goes...

S.

ttf_Dixieland57

Hope Sabutin look at this post!

ttf_sabutin

…and want to both add meat back to my sound and improve on the upper registers before I venture forth into some much more skilled/demanding symphony opportunities.

Having said all of that, in my former life I went out of my way to study with guys that were going to work every day at Lincoln Center ... because that was where I thought I could be. Now at 47 years old, where do I start to look for a teacher? The guys that work there now seem so unapproachable to me, with their myriad teaching and gigging responsibilities and given that I am no longer a 'promising youth' assume that I will not capture their interest. So I am stuck ... where do I start here in Metro NY to find a teacher that can advance my skills and will understand my goals?

I know that Doug is an option via Skype - but am really looking first to find someone local.

Thanks in advance to all.

Bill
I'm in the Bronx. Good parking, good public transportaion, good neighborhood, good teacher. Check out my ~~[url=http://samburtis.com]~~website[/url] for more. Give me a holler. ([url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url])

S.

ttf_sabutin

…> Fri., Sept. 15-SUNY Potsdam Bret Zvacek host cell 315.323.5522
The Crane School of Music 44 Pierrepont Ave. Potsdam, NY 13676-Master classes, open rehearsal from 3PM, concert 7:30

Sat., Sept 16-Lake George Jazz Festival, Shepard Park Beach, Canada Street, Lake George, NY 12845-Concert 7:30PM

Sun., Sept 17-SUNY Orange - Chris Parker host 845.856.0635, 115 South Street Middletown, NY 10940, Venue: Paramount Theater 17 South Street, Middletown, NY 1094. 3PM-concert

I am staying in the north Wed. and Thurs., Sept. 14 + 15 rather than driving back all the way to NYC and then up to Potsdam 2 days later. I will either stay 2 days in Colchester, VT, 2 days in Potsdam NY or 1 day in each. Anyone who wants a lesson or wants to set up some sort of group lesson on those two days please...since the PM thing is not working really well on this site...email me at <[url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url]>.

I hope to see some of you. This is really an extraordinary opportunity to hear and learn from this level of NYC jazz players in a large ensemble outside of NYC.

Later...

S.

ttf_Ryebone

Senor Sabutin, Yup, the tuning crook is conical, the bell throat starts to open quickly The bell section is longer than my 78H, the slide is narrow and maybe a fraction of an inch shorter than the 78H. Jury is out on the 32H slide with the 78H bell..will continue to explore.

ttf_sabutin

~~[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=35772.msg494803#msg494803]~~Quote from: Euphanasia on Nov 01, 2007, 06:52AM[/url]---snip---

Oh, and let me add this: Damn you, Sabutin! I had never even thought about those turns, and now I hear them in every Rosolino solo---snip---
Sorry...

They have bothered me since I was 15.

Really.

Quoteand I agree with you--they're quite "trombonish" and they certainly don't add to the musical statement of the solo. I would add, though, that turns and any other way of manipulating partials (like playing against the grain) are one of the best ways to get fast articulations out of a trombone, and Rosolino seems to have been one of the pioneers of this technique. You'd know better than I. I'm wondering if the turns were "trombonish" before Rosolino made them so.
Bill Harris

Jimmy Harrison

Dicky Wells

Jack Jenney

Lawrence Brown

Middle-era Trummy Young

Lots of others.

They all used them.

Rosolino just took it to a whole 'nother level.

QuoteThere will come a time when multiphonics are seen as a low brass…

Fidbone

RIP Sabutin :frown:
Always enjoyed the banter with him on the old forum.
Very opinionated but knew his stuff.
Put a lot of pretenders in their place.
He will be missed.

ttf_DaveAshley

Yep - it's 'Sabutin' himself as a pretty mature-sounding 21 year-old. This was from a Japanese TV broadcast back in 1967. It is indeed Ernie Watts playing alto and the trumpet player on the left is Chuck Findley.

ttf_Bob Riddle

Great viewpoints from Sabutin and DG.These are comments that should be taken to heart as they get right to the crux of what it is like to be a Professional musician.In far too many cases things are far from ideal situations where one is called upon to make something out of nothing or at least out of very little.To sound phenomenal,great, or even good in these situations takes most years of hard work.And I'm not even talking about going steps further and trying to be innovative,stretch into new territory while doing this.Put yourself in those situations day-in,day-out,lots of times performing with people you may not even know,sometimes w/ far less than adequate rhythm sections,no way to hear yourself even remotely adequately.VERY difficult to sound your best,or even to sound like yourself.It takes a pro w/ a very highly developed sense of their own sound/style to accomplish this even if it's only to the degree of just trying to sound good,let alone sticking your j***y out there,for someone just waiting to step on it.
VHY
Bob

ttf_baileyman

If you like sabutin's randomizing practice routine, then a random number generator app can substitute for the deck of cards he uses. Just find one where you can set it to choose a number from 1 to 12 and then it is like having a card deck on your phone.

~~[url=http://appcrawlr.com/ios-apps/best-apps-random-number-generator]~~http://appcrawlr.com/ios-apps/best-apps-random-number-generator[/url]

I think the one I use is obsolete, but I refuse to update it and have it go away!

ttf_baileyman

If you like sabutin's randomizing practice routine, then a random number generator app can substitute for the deck of cards he uses. Just find one where you can set it to choose a number from 1 to 12 and then it is like having a card deck on your phone.

~~[url=http://appcrawlr.com/ios-apps/best-apps-random-number-generator]~~http://appcrawlr.com/ios-apps/best-apps-random-number-generator[/url]

I think the one I use is obsolete, but I refuse to update it and have it go away!

Bleek

Anyone know how Sabutin/Sam Burtis is going? I think he fairly recently got Bells Palsy again? I may be wrong on that, don’t want to spread misinformation.

baileyman

That's the sabutin method. He could shift like crazy.

imsevimse

I think Sabutins thread about overtone singing was good on the TTF.

It was good to focus on one tone at a time and experiment with the mouth cavity to make an overtone sing, the fifth in my case, but could probably be the third or any other overtone you want.

You will change the cavity and use many things to do so including the cheeks, jaw and tongue. The method helps to discover how to take control over ones sound.

When I do this I focus on the fifth. To me a strong fifth overtone in the sound makes the sound (my sound) darker so that's what I want. I don't know where my tongue is I just listen and play.

The problem is when you play the next note because every tone needs its individual care so the sound is the same character though the whole register. In my case I do not study every note on the horn although this might be a good idea. No, I play a few long notes to set the sound and after that I just focus on maintaining that same feel and sound on what ever comes after.

/Tom

harrisonreed

I wish I had a link to Sabutin's video. It was pretty cool.

Sam Burtis (posts under the name Sabutin, mostly on TTF) used to purposely sand down the shanks of his mouthpieces and then build them back up with Teflon tape (the stuff for pipe joints). So your masking tape mod is not much different from what Sam did. And he kept using the tape permanently. It was a way to adjust the depth of the mouthpiece to "tune" to the intonation characteristics of the horn.

SteelDeRosa

Might any among you conject how Sabutin might respond to these important (and well-defined) questions?

2bobone

I never met Sam --- or Sabutin --- but anyone that had such passion for our beloved instrument and could gather such a bouquet of compliments from those who knew him must have been somebody special. I wish I had known him.
RIP

This is the one Sam Burtis (sabutin) used to mention:

~~[img]~~http://www.horn-u-copia.net/mouthpieces/Comfo-Rim-Trombone-mpc.jpg[/img]

ttf_Dixieland57

Thanks man.

Just a question for sabutin, in the past we have talked about trombone you're tested and liked at previous ITF but what about mouthpieces?

I know you play only shires but what brand and size do you play on?

Thanks

ttf_William Lang

I must with a little trepidation gently disagree with Sabutin here. It's an interesting observation - but one that I think might be overcomplicated.

I believe that not many trombonists train to hit notes that are consistantly and musically solid over F5. Being able to play a Bb5-C6 on command and with a variety of articulations is a prerequisite for playing F5 solidly and with little trouble. I find that the usuable range of most trombonists is around a m3-P4 beneath the very top note that gets consistantly worked on. I think that if someone works long term to have a good usuable F6, they would find that F5 isn't much of a problem.

Granted - there's so little application for those notes that it's almost always a better choice to focus on other aspects of playing - sadly there's no such equivalent at a lead high chops trumpet book with a 20% premium in the trombone world!

baileyman

It's funny. sabutin used to say Try everything, and if it works, do it. And time goes by and little weirdnesses show up and something has to change a little and then it works. And then later it changes a little and the thing that works becomes different. Does this ever stop? No sign of it yet...

ngrinder

I regret to inform that Sam Burtis (or Sabutin, on the old forum) has passed away.

Many of us remember Sam’s posts - he was always so generous to share information, and had a truly unique and personal take on all things trombone and music. He was truly one of a kind, and an absolute servant to the music and soul.

I knew Sam well - I first took a lesson with him when I was in college, and he got me my very first gig in NYC. I loved sitting in a section with him, and the car rides home, which he always insisted on. When I’d ask to be let out a few blocks from my place, he’d always take me all the way. He said he never did half favors. He was a wonderful friend, mentor, and person.

Kbiggs

On the old TF, sabutin (Sam Burtis, RIP) told a story about this. He had an old horn that he really liked—I believe it was a 6H. It was a good jazz horn, and could play ballads and lead very well. He sold it to a fellow who played a lot of trad jazz. Apparently, he played VERY loud, and had ~~[i]~~that[/i] kind of trad jazz sound. A few years later he had a chance to play the horn again and it was ruined, IIRC. It had no more of the beauty and subtlety that Sam liked about it.

Can the way someone plays a horn change it? Perhaps we just don’t know what to examine… yet.

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

ttf_anonymous

Carla and Valente (and not only them) are originals beyond category like Sam (Sabutin) states above. It might not be in your personal stylistic/sound bag. But it is so much more than a bag. It's MUSIC BEYOND CATEGORIZATION. It has its own rules, no, create is own rules. Is its own rules. Whether you like it or not. And nobody HAS to like it. Its still ******* fantastic whether we like it or not, for personal/taste reasons. Bet on it - to quote our own Sam.

~~[quote]~~Matt K / Neobri - there were some great posts from Sabutin and RolandBarber that didn't seem to make it into the archive, were they simply not picked up by a crawler? [/quote] Yeah, basically the method TTF used to store the posts was not particularly intuitive and it wasn't realized by the time that the site went down in its entirety. (I believe this is why the archive.org clone of the site is also incomplete.). But it looked like it was working because it got the classifieds section right 100% of the time, which was the reason that I built the bot in the firs tplace. If it comes up again, it's possible that it can be fixed but for the time being a lot of stuff was regrettably lost to the ether.

SwissTbone

Yes. All the posts by Sam Burtis aka Sabutin on the old TTF.

SwissTbone

What made the other site stand out for me was the community and particularly members like sabutin, ben griffin etc. Are there any plans to get them on board?

ttf_bodingus

I've also heard Stork. See if you can coax it out of griffinben or sabutin.

ttf_bassclef

Here's a free lesson in slide technique from The Trombone Forum's own Sam Burtis (sabutin):
~~[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i-wZM82HXM]~~https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i-wZM82HXM[/url]

He's the one closest to the camera when the solos start. Everything you're asking about is demonstrated at a high level in this video.

VJOFan

~~[quote=baileyman post_id=75124 time=1547220470 user_id=160]~~ sabutin does something like this by use of random chance selection of what to do. (snip)

But I think you're asking more along the lines of the old Russian athletics periodization routines to build peak capabilities for specific competitions. I have not seen anything like that. Though personally I can say I get decent results from focusing on one thing for an extended period, and then moving to another. [/quote] Both really. My recent (mid-life) dive into training as a runner led me to the question. I have a long run day, a speed day, a cross training and core day, a leg strength day, and several easy runs and recovery runs scattered strategically through the week. At the same time, I am building my total mileage and intensity toward a race.

I never did anything like that in music practice. I am interested if and how anyone has applied similar principals.

The best Caruso course I found online was with Julie Landsman on horn.

Sam Burtis (Sabutin) is another Caruso disciple. You may need to take a lesson or three with him -- I haven't seen any of his Caruso method online.

Slidennis

And I miss RedHotMama, Precious, Sabutin, and so many others...

Do you miss Sabutin, timothy42b??? :wink:

timothy42b

~~[quote=Bleek post_id=202557 time=1676686285 user_id=15544]~~ Anyone know how Sabutin/Sam Burtis is going? I think he fairly recently got Bells Palsy again? I may be wrong on that, don’t want to spread misinformation. [/quote] He posted on Facebook today. He said he's been off social media since November due to health issues, but he's improving now.

Mamaposaune

Sad to hear this about Sam. I always enjoyed reading his posts as Sabutin on the old forum, words of wisdom expressed in a uniquely colorful way. He was clearly passionate about all things trombone related.
I never got to hear him play, but did meet him once when I stopped at his table (NY Brass Conference for Scholarships, I think) to buy his book. Reminder to self - re-read it.
"Bet on it."

Bard

When I picked up trombone again in 2003 and found TromboneForum, Sam (Sabutin) was clearly a voice that stood out, both in knowledge and in his engagement and enthusiasm. From TromboneForum to groups on FB I have always followed and enjoyed his comments, insights and philosophies, not only on trombonetechnique and music, but also on other topics.

I never got to meet him or take lessons with him or even talk with him but I still feel I knew him and I am very sorry now that he is gone. He will be missed.

ttf_savio

I have given lot of pepper to pro people, just ask Sam or Sabutin

Leif

SwissTbone

There actually is a possibility, but you have to remember at least a part of the username:

E.G for finding contact information on Sabutin:
- Go to google.com and write: http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?action=profile sabutin
This will bring up a page with his most recent posts, don't visit the page, but copy the link!

- Now go to http://web.archive.org/ and paste the link in the field, remove the part "sa=showPosts;start=20".
This should bring up something like this:
http://web.archive.org/web/20170807210030/http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?action=profile;u=8298

Some users have their contact info on there.

ttf_Pre59

~~[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=23254.msg1130763#msg1130763]~~Quote from: sabutin on Apr 09, 2016, 11:05AM[/url]This "too big equipment" syndrome at the middle school/high school level has a great deal to do with the way young players sound badly. (Plus of course the trend in U.S. music education to produce...to pass and certify w/a diploma...pretty much anybody whose checks clear and doesn't totally mess up in some serious way at school.)

Most beginners tend to get a "nasty" sound, especially at volume. These numbnuts instructors want their bands to sound the least ugly that they can possibly sound. It's good for their jobs if not their students. Tubby-sounding equipment sounds less ugly...less aggressivelyugly...in the hands of bad players than does smaller stuff. Instead of "Wrack wrack wrack" it"Woof woof woof." Plus...the instrument makers hype larger equipment because most orchestral players play it and hey can charge more for it.

So there y'are...20, 30, 40 years later? It's a style!!!

So it goes.

S.

Sad but true, and add in being taught by non-trombonists which leads to "slide position amnesia"..

ttf_blast

~~[url=http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=23254.msg1127639#msg1127639]~~Quote from: sabutin on Mar 19, 2016, 03:10PM[/url]I wishhhhhhhhhh I could play a 1 + 1/2G on bassssssssss trombone.

But I can't.

I run out of ssssssssteam around 8vb

~~[img]~~http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/BassClef.gif[/img] b

~~[img]~~http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/Line3.gif[/img]

~~[img]~~https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3071112/Steam%20heat.jpeg[/img]

Sssssssssorry...

Ssssssssss.

(

~~[img]~~http://tromboneforum.org/Smileys/otjf/smile.gif[/img]

~~[img]~~

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