How to hold a Conn 88H????

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Diana6
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How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by Diana6 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:48 am

My son has his High School (freshman) trombone now. It's an 88H, not an open wrap and it has a rslight eddish bell. He will be marching with it as well as using it for concert band. He was also asked to play in the pit for the High School musicals. He was named 1st trombone in Marching Band.

It seems pretty heavy. I didn't think he was going to march with it, but this is what they gave him at marching band camp. He is 95 lbs. at the most, but he says he's fine with it.

He does not know how to properly hold the 88H with F att. If anyone could either find a link to a video to show him the correct way to hold it or if you could photograph yourself holding one, I would greatly appreciate it. He sounds pretty good on it so far. He is coming from a Yam 354 and an Olds Special.
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Matt K
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by Matt K » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:59 am

I'd personally march with the 354 or the Olds. Are they requiring the 88 to be used for marching? I'm willing to bet the director either doesn't know much about trombones or there's a misunderstanding and he can use it for the year but not necessarily for marching.
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Neo Bri
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by Neo Bri » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:02 am

Here's a picture:

https://capitolmusic.files.wordpress.co ... t-hand.jpg

That picture has a little hand support, but that's how you should hold it.

I completely agree...I wouldn't march with the 88H. Marching is notoriously hard on instruments and I'd put a cheaper horn on the field. Plus the cheaper ones will be lighter and sound great.
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Pre59
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by Pre59 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:03 am

Surely a 88H is a far too valuable instrument to be used for marching?
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tctb
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by tctb » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:15 am

+ 1 for march with the 354 . The Conn 88 is not a suitable instrument for a marching band if you are at 95lbs !
If I had known trombones were this much fun , I would have got one sooner! :cool:
Posaunus
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by Posaunus » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:46 am

Diana,

Can't agree more with the previous posters. Please do everything you can to discourage the band director and your son from marching with this (possibly wonderful; certainly valuable) Conn 88H. It's too large and heavy to be used by anyone less than 115-120 pounds. He should really be marching with a lighter-weight tenor trombone (without F-attachment) if allowed by the band director. He will NOT need the F-attachment for 1st trombone parts.

In any case, the 88H is too vulnerable to damage from the abuse of a high school marching band. And it's too valuable (and relatively rare) to sacrifice on a football field.

Is there any way he can retrieve the Yamaha 354 or Olds Special or something similar? Either would be perfect for marching! If he is required for some silly reason to march with an F-attachment horn, please find something less valuable for him to subject to marching band abuse.
Diana6
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by Diana6 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:04 am

Okay, thanks guys. These were my initial thoughts also. I will contact the director and let him know what I was advised here on this forum. My son is not happy about this. He thinks the 88 is so cool and he is the only one to have it, so he wants to march with it. I had him read your posts and he will come around. I hope the director agrees and lets him use something else.

My son's own instrument is the Olds Special. It is in great condition and is a beautiful instrument that he uses for jazz band. It doesn't have a high value for a trombone, but I'd rather the school issue him a 354 or something similar for marching.

Thanks Neo.. the picture you sent has a different configuration than the 88H my son has from the school.

This is like the one he has... https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Vintage-CONN-88 ... 2858294382
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by Posaunus » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:12 am

Though your son's 88H is slightly different, it should still be held as in NeoBri's photo - just ignore the after-market silver-colored "hand support" that is clasped by the middle finger which he doesn't have. I expect that such a grip is awkward for a 95-pound boy - and would be hard to maintain while marching and "twirling" - yet another reason to switch to a lighter straight tenor trombone.
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by jpwell » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:18 am

Perhaps he is too young to see the value of the horn and not ready for the responsibility. March with it :(
Diana6
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by Diana6 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:38 am

He takes great care of his Olds...The school's Conn88 that they just issued him, is a bit beaten up, so he didn't know it's value until I told him.

I had him try this grip from the picture. I don't see him marching with this trombone. His hand does not fit that well. He will be able to use it for concert band. I really wanted to buy a Yamaha 356R to use as a transition to a .547, but can't manage it right now.
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Matt K
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by Matt K » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:40 pm

Diana6 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:38 am
He takes great care of his Olds...The school's Conn88 that they just issued him, is a bit beaten up, so he didn't know it's value until I told him.

I had him try this grip from the picture. I don't see him marching with this trombone. His hand does not fit that well. He will be able to use it for concert band. I really wanted to buy a Yamaha 356R to use as a transition to a .547, but can't manage it right now.
356R is going to have a near identical setup to the 88H as far as how it is held. Its not much lighter either. They are superb horns though; I just switched to one from a Shires. But the 88 and the 354 are going to serve him perfectly fine throughout high school.
Diana6
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by Diana6 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:50 pm

Okay, that's good to know. thanks Matt. I may look for a bargain 356R or something similar for him to have at home so he doesn't have to bring the 88 back and forth everyday on the bus. It's impossible for him to carry backpack, baseball gear and trombone at the same time.

Any other suggestions for horns w/ f att. that would be $500-$700 that would work for home practice?
hyperbolica
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by hyperbolica » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:17 pm

Here's an image of a real 88h, without the extra grip, without the second lever. The thumb rests on the inside of the bend of the trigger. Wrap the middle 2 fingers around the stationary brace as shown. The index finger can go where ever its comfortable. I usually put mine on top of the mouthpiece receiver, but with smaller hands, you might be better with index finger under the receiver, as shown. Be careful with the pinky, don't get it caught in the slide, it causes a painful "snakebite" looking pinch wound. You might develop a callous on the middle joint of your middle finger if you play a lot.

I agree with everyone else, a smaller (cheaper) instrument would be better for marching. I did march with a 88h sized horn for 4 years in the military band, but we didn't do silly stuff that high school bands sometimes do, and I was a full grown adult.

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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by mrdeacon » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:47 pm

I was 90 lbs soaking wet when I was in high school and I marched a baritone, talk about something heavy! I mean some of my high school students are 90lbs or less soaking wet and they play tuba or the crazy heavy marching Euphs!

I think it's silly to say a 88h is too heavy for a kid to hold up. It's not some super heavy Edwards, 88hs are some of the lightest horns around.

That said everyone's recommendation that the 88h is too valuable to march is spot on!
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sacfxdx
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by sacfxdx » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:27 pm

check out a Neotech trombone grip (or others) to help holding it. Another vote for NOT marching the 88H.
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Matt K
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by Matt K » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:39 pm

Diana6 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:50 pm
Okay, that's good to know. thanks Matt. I may look for a bargain 356R or something similar for him to have at home so he doesn't have to bring the 88 back and forth everyday on the bus. It's impossible for him to carry backpack, baseball gear and trombone at the same time.

Any other suggestions for horns w/ f att. that would be $500-$700 that would work for home practice?
Note that the 356 is much, much closer to the 354 than the 88. It's a 500/525 (whearas the 354 is a 500/500 slide, meaning the inner bore). The 88 is a 547 bore. The former two take a small shank mouthpiece, the latter a large shank mouthpiece.

In this scenario, I'd probably recommend just get the same mouthpiece for both horns (6.5AL is a common piece to put in both horns for students of that age) and just use the 354 to practice on at home unless he was actively taking lessons and needed a larger instrument for that, but I'd work with the teacher at that point on finding something that worked. For school stuff? Practicing on the 354 is fine.

The F attachment is not going to be that useful for most band stuff, especially 1st parts. Getting a horn without an F attachment that is large bore could potentially be an option and that would make it easier to fit in your $700 range. Just be very wary about some of the new instruments that are in the price point. Some are okay (the Mack Brass, for example has been reported by players as being fine)... others are a real mixed bag.

Used? You do have more options, especially if medium or large bore are on the table. Anything Yamaha. (448,446, 645, 646 --- actually I have one of these for sale at the moment but I'm asking a little outside of your window on price ---, 681). Sometimes you'll see a King 4BF get sold in that price range. Blessing 88H. Benge 165F. Rarely you'll see a Conn 78H or 88H if you're super, duper patient. Same with Bach 36B or 42B. But with these, the condition sometimes is low, thus the price point.
Diana6
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by Diana6 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:53 pm

He owns an Olds Special. The 354 was what they gave him to use in the Middle School, so he doesn't have one at home. The Special is duel bore small Olds tenor. The Special needs a narrower shank and he has an OLDS 3. Is there an Olds MP or one with a narrow shank that is equivalent to a 6.5AL?

One reason I am concerned about the weight is that my son just had a broken arm...down low near the wrist. The cast just came off recently. My son says the 88 is not that heavy...I don't know.

Maybe the Neotech grip would help. Even if he doesn't march with it, he will be playing it a lot. Are there any other grips that are recommended or is the Neotech the go to grip?
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Matt K
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by Matt K » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:54 pm

Diana6 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:53 pm
He owns an Olds Special. The 354 was what they gave him to use in the Middle School, so he doesn't have one at home. The Special is duel bore small Olds tenor. The Special needs a narrower shank and he has an OLDS 3. Is there an Olds MP or one with a narrow shank that is equivalent to a 6.5AL?

One reason I am concerned about the weight is that my son just had a broken arm...down low near the wrist. The cast just came off recently. My son says the 88 is not that heavy...I don't know.

Maybe the Neotech grip would help. Even if he doesn't march with it, he will be playing it a lot. Are there any other grips that are recommended or is the Neotech the go to grip?
I did exactly the same thing one week before band camp when I was an incoming freshman in high school! Well, fracture at least, near the wrist.

I love the Neotechs. I use them on all my horns. There are others but they're a lot more expensive, I'd definitely suggest starting there. Remember, it can be adjusted (and probably will need to). The screws come out and you can adjust both the angle and depth of the location as well as how tight it is with the velcro.

The Olds 3 should be similar enough to a 6.5AL that it'll be fine. It isn't the end of the world if he's on something bigger for the 88 but consistency does help when you're developing. The Olds will be fine too (it's actually probably a better horn than the 354).
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by Posaunus » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:34 pm

Diana6 wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:53 pm
The Special needs a narrower shank and he has an OLDS 3. Is there an Olds MP or one with a narrow shank that is equivalent to a 6.5AL?
Unfortunately, if there is an Olds-shank near-equivalent to a 6½AL, it would be very rare. The Olds shank, though, is not that much smaller though, so standard small shank pieces will work O.K. (but not perfectly) - just won't drop down as far into the receiver. The Olds 3 mouthpieces that were supplied with all the small-bore Olds trombones are more like a 12C size (24.2 to 24.5 mm Cup I.D., depending on their vintage / 6.15mm Throat). Olds did supply the slightly larger Olds 1 mouthpiece for their small "bass trombones" - they have a 24.6 mm Cup / 6.35mm Throat with the same shank. The 6½AL has a 25.4 mm Cup / (large) 6.63mm Throat - perhaps a little big for the Special for most players (though I do like them for slightly larger trombones). I've actually had pretty good luck playing a small Olds trombone with an old Bach 7C (24.75mm/5.85mm).

Mouthpieces are strongly dependent on individual preference - but Olds didn't widely provide many options to choose from!
Diana6
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by Diana6 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:36 pm

Thanks Matt and everyone for your help. My son's friend who also plays trombone broke his arm near the wrist also this summer. Maybe boys that are around 14 are susceptible to this or they just horse around a lot. ;)

I will contact the director to see if he can still play his 1st trombone parts on a straight horn. I will also buy the Neotech grip.

I have read about a 7C for Olds tenors. I think I was looking at a Wick's 7C at one time before we had my son's OLDS 3 re-plated.
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Geordie
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by Geordie » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:21 pm

Diana Great to see your son continues to progress. I agree, something smaller for marching.
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ghmerrill
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Re: How to hold a Conn 88H????

Post by ghmerrill » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:09 am

I have an Olds Standard (which is basically morally equivalent to the Special, but a bit more of a "professional" horn at the time). It really likes the Olds #3, but that does produce a "period sound" from it. I've found the 6 1/2AL to be way too big for the horn. For using it in an ensemble and fitting in with contemporary instruments, I use Kelly 12C. My choice of the Kelly (rather than, say a Bach or a Faxx) was because I could easily sand down the shank to fit the Olds receiver. Also, I really like Lexan rims (which are also highly advantageous if you have to march in the cold, though at my age I don't march anywhere anywhen). The modified 12C works really well for me. If I didn't like the Kelly so much, I'd probably get a Faxx and have someone turn down the shank.

A Wick 7C might work as well, and I like Wick mouthpieces, but I don't think Wick has one with the appropriate shank for the Olds? And it might also be a bit too large. But I've never tried one.
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