Intonation Repair Tool

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billyball
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:20 am

Intonation Repair Tool

Post by billyball » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:52 am

Hi,

I'm looking to buy a product I read about on Jay Friedman's website called "The Intonation Repair Tool". I guess the idea is to train "Just Intonation". However, the website doesn't seem to be working. Does anyone know if it can be purchased elsewhere?

Also, has anyone tried it or had any success with it?

Thanks.

Non-Funcitonal Website
http://www.tkbbpress.com/html/intonatio ... _tool.html

Youtube Video Demonstration


Jay Friedman Commentary:
http://www.jayfriedman.net/articles/just_desserts
timothy42b
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:51 am
Location: central Virginia

Re: Intonation Repair Tool

Post by timothy42b » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:08 am

I notice that player is sharp on every pitch and has to adjust down.

That's probably true in real life.
AndrewMeronek
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:09 pm

Re: Intonation Repair Tool

Post by AndrewMeronek » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:14 am

I've heard of it but haven't played with it. I like the idea. IMHO playing with drones is one of the easiest and best ways to experiment with just intonation, but breaking up that idea with what's in that video sounds fun. It's also very important to simply go out and listen to music in just intonation, whether you like a particular style or not. Bagpipe music (when done by someone who is really good) and barbershop quartets are common applications. Indian raga is also in just intonation. I highly recommend the string quartets of Ben Johnston to really get your ears opened up.

If you're interested, I have some articles on my blog pertaining to just intonation and some practical consequences in performance. Reference the articles from the "music tools" drop-down menu. https://andrewmeronek.com/music-tools/
“All musicians are subconsciously mathematicians.”

- Thelonious Monk
timothy42b
Posts: 135
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Location: central Virginia

Re: Intonation Repair Tool

Post by timothy42b » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:59 am

I have been doing the opposite, playing with a drone in equal temperament. It's challenging.
AndrewMeronek
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Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:09 pm

Re: Intonation Repair Tool

Post by AndrewMeronek » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:09 pm

timothy42b wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:59 am
I have been doing the opposite, playing with a drone in equal temperament. It's challenging.
Yes, that would be. :shock:
“All musicians are subconsciously mathematicians.”

- Thelonious Monk
boneagain
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Re: Intonation Repair Tool

Post by boneagain » Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:09 pm

timothy42b wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:59 am
I have been doing the opposite, playing with a drone in equal temperament. It's challenging.
No more major thirds for YOU! :biggrin:
afugate
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:47 am

Re: Intonation Repair Tool

Post by afugate » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:18 am

billyball wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:52 am
I'm looking to buy a product I read about on Jay Friedman's website called "The Intonation Repair Tool". I guess the idea is to train "Just Intonation".

Also, has anyone tried it or had any success with it?
I tried a couple of these. I liked The Intonation Repair Tool (this one) the best. :)

YMMV

--Andy in OKC
timothy42b
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:51 am
Location: central Virginia

Re: Intonation Repair Tool

Post by timothy42b » Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:18 am

boneagain wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:09 pm
timothy42b wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:59 am
I have been doing the opposite, playing with a drone in equal temperament. It's challenging.
No more major thirds for YOU! :biggrin:
Yeah, that's a potential problem. But what I'm finding is that like most people I'm more likely to be sharp, meaning sharper than ET, which is even worse. I have an embarrassing recording from the last community band concert I've considered sharing, and then reconsidered for that reason.

I'm using a drone on the stereo behind me, with the tuner on a music stand in front of me. I have Breakfast (David Schwarz) as well as a set of cello drones I downloaded. I play each line twice, once only listening and once also looking at the tuner.

Yesterday I took that Breakfast sarabande up an octave. Wow! Those notes are NOT where I've been hearing them. I tried it down an octave too, even worse.
AndrewMeronek
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:09 pm

Re: Intonation Repair Tool

Post by AndrewMeronek » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:17 am

timothy42b wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:18 am
But what I'm finding is that like most people I'm more likely to be sharp, meaning sharper than ET, which is even worse. I have an embarrassing recording from the last community band concert I've considered sharing, and then reconsidered for that reason.
Concert bands, when they sound good, use more of a tempered almost-just-intonation than 12ET, as far as my ears have told me.

But, yes, going sharp is definitely a human tendency. It hurts you in major keys because the major thirds are significantly lower than 12ET, but consider that there are times when a higher third may be appropriate: as when you're playing some jazzy chord like a major 6/9 where a spelling in 4ths can force a major third to Pythagorean tuning (+6 cents) instead of 5-limit (-14 cents); or when the harmonic context is much weaker than the melodic context and you want to make a leading tone half-step tighter.

That Pythagorean major third is findable against a drone, but IMHO very difficult.

But, for minor keys, that minor third is already high, so the tendency to play sharp anyway doesn't hurt the harmony as much.
“All musicians are subconsciously mathematicians.”

- Thelonious Monk
timothy42b
Posts: 135
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Location: central Virginia

Re: Intonation Repair Tool

Post by timothy42b » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:07 pm

Interesting. Thanks Andrew. Maybe I will share that recording.

We should be able to play an ET major scale by ear, right?
AndrewMeronek
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:09 pm

Re: Intonation Repair Tool

Post by AndrewMeronek » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:32 pm

timothy42b wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:07 pm
We should be able to play an ET major scale by ear, right?
Only to a point. No recording artist actually does this without autotune. And we all know how good that sounds.

IMHO intonation is a musical tool that be pushed, pulled, stretched, etc., just like everything else. It is, of course, still important to have control over intonation just like it's important to have good time.
“All musicians are subconsciously mathematicians.”

- Thelonious Monk
harrisonreed
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Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm

Re: Intonation Repair Tool

Post by harrisonreed » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:27 pm

I've always wondered how the tubas deal with 5 limit after a few key changes. Especially if they are using pythagorean tuning on a scalar, moving bass line.

Bye bye A440.

Oh wait, they don't do that because just intonation still has to squeeze in somehow over 12tet roots...
Cmillar
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:39 am

Re: Intonation Repair Tool

Post by Cmillar » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:23 am

Check out these 'Cello Drones':



They come in every different key!

Thanks to the person who made these for us to use....love them.
timothy42b
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:51 am
Location: central Virginia

Re: Intonation Repair Tool

Post by timothy42b » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:24 am

Yes those are the ones I use now.
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