TromboneChat

I've been messing around with the pipes that came with my bass. I've also been reading on the options on their website. I'm curious on how would one know to try a short or long version of a pipe vs going with a different numbered pipe.

The L pipe (and the sterling silver pipes) feel different than the regular brass pipes of the same number. I can’t describe exactly the difference, but they’re worth trying.

I've tried 1, 1.5, 1.5N, 1.5L, 1.8, 2, 2SS, 2L, 2.5L, 2.5, 3, and 3GL.

I always end up on the 2.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:41 pm I've tried 1, 1.5, 1.5N, 1.5L, 1.8, 2, 2SS, 2L, 2.5L, 2.5, 3, and 3GL.

I always end up on the 2.

Me too.

Short and long pipes do exactly what you think they will: the basic resistance level is similar to the plain numbered pipe, but the slotting is firmer on a long pipe and looser on a short pipe. Depending on how you play, that can mean the long pipe feels more restrictive and the short pipe more free, but it's not about the resistance of the venturi, which is the same.

I went down the rabbit hole of experimenting with .547 leadpipes for several years in search of something that was perfect. Here are some generalizations that I came up with on my travels:

*Most people do get the best results right in the middle of the Shires system. That is why you hear of so many people playing on the #2 leadpipes.

*If you like the way that a leadpipe blows and desire a little more clarity in your articulation, try that one in an L (long).

*If you like the way that a leadpipe blows but feel that it slots a little too firmly (maybe you get stuck on notes while lip slurring) try the same leadpipe in an S (short).

*Be careful of the number 3 leadpipes and seek feedback from others. I liked the way a #3 played for me, but other musicians and recordings indicated that there was a lack of brilliance and focus in my sound.

*Sometimes alloys can have much more impact on a leadpipe than throat and length. I have tried some gold brass leadpipes (in sizes that the yellow brass worked well) and they were dull and lacked articulation clarity. I have done the same with nickel leadpipes and found the response very quick but the tone had an edge.

*The Shires system has oodles of options, but it is not the be-all, end-all. You might need to go beyond the options to find something that works for you. I had to modify one of my Shires leadpipes to make it work for me on a few of my horns. I modified a 2.5 long by opening up the apperture (throat) about 2 or 3 thousandths of an inch. I call it my Shires 2.7 long leadpipe.

I am mostly playing bass trombone these days. Fortunately, I quickly found a .562 leadpipe that really works well for me. I was dreading going through a multi-year adventure with bass leadpipes!

I've always been a "2" user but our music for our May concert requires a lot of fast / double / triple tonguing and I kept getting mush (most likely because of me). I switched to the "1" and the articulations cleaned up.

Crazy4Tbone86 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:11 am*Most people do get the best results right in the middle of the Shires system. That is why you hear of so many people playing on the #2 leadpipes.

*If you like the way that a leadpipe blows and desire a little more clarity in your articulation, try that one in an L (long).

*If you like the way that a leadpipe blows but feel that it slots a little too firmly (maybe you get stuck on notes while lip slurring) try the same leadpipe in an S (short).

*Be careful of the number 3 leadpipes and seek feedback from others. I liked the way a #3 played for me, but other musicians and recordings indicated that there was a lack of brilliance and focus in my sound.

*Sometimes alloys can have much more impact on a leadpipe than throat and length. I have tried some gold brass leadpipes (in sizes that the yellow brass worked well) and they were dull and lacked articulation clarity. I have done the same with nickel leadpipes and found the response very quick but the tone had an edge.

*The Shires system has oodles of options, but it is not the be-all, end-all. You might need to go beyond the options to find something that works for you. I had to modify one of my Shires leadpipes to make it work for me on a few of my horns. I modified a 2.5 long by opening up the apperture (throat) about 2 or 3 thousandths of an inch. I call it my Shires 2.7 long leadpipe.

GabrielRice wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 6:46 amShort and long pipes do exactly what you think they will: the basic resistance level is similar to the plain numbered pipe, but the slotting is firmer on a long pipe and looser on a short pipe. Depending on how you play, that can mean the long pipe feels more restrictive and the short pipe more free, but it's not about the resistance of the venturi, which is the same.

Sorry to resurrect a thread, but this is great info. I too seem to come back to the 2 (except with the Yeo mp, which really needed something bigger), but it would be nice to have a way to tweak the brilliance and articulations for different playing situations. I'm wondering how a 2NS (nickel, short) would feel for big band (more pop, brightness, and slipperiness? all things I could use more of there). I've heard some good things about the MK George Roberts pipe in nickel but don't know if that's near a 2.

The closer you get to optimal the less difference it makes. You can take up a lot of time and drive yourself crazy by trying to choose between several pretty good pipes, all of which work well, although it's easy to rule out ones that are not ball park. Better to play on a good one for a week or more, than switch and see if it's better or merely different. Back to back experimentation doesn't allow you to get used to one. And don't try to fix playing problems by changing lead pipes. Once you have two or three that work at some point you'll get bored and just play one that does the job. I too play the shires number two on both tenor and bass, it's as if things get easier until they get harder and that's about where the number two pipe is.

You might find that a 2 nickel will get the easy brilliance you want, but I've also found it best to just stick with one pipe.

When I settled on my new Shires large bore setup at my recent Shires visit, I loved the feel and sound of what I had chosen, but articulations weren't quite there with the #2. I was given the 2L and it made the fronts of the notes cleaner, and seemed to provide extra stability. A leadpipe can be used for fine tuning if needed.

Thanks all for the responses.
Maybe it's just the "L" that needs to change for me. It feels a little stiff on shakes and slurs, and I wouldn't mind a more open feel - as long as it's not darker. My articulations tend to be on the hard side, so I can spare a bit there. I have a 1.5S but the general resistance didn't feel quite as good as the 2L. But I'm very slightly darker than I'd like to be for an "all-around" setup, so maybe I should try to work through that difference.

For context: I don't have the practice time of a full-time player, so I'm looking to equipment to help out a little with getting the optimal sound for different situations. I know it's possible to have one setup and adjust your sound, but I also hear players who might think they're doing that, and aren't truly succeeding - too dark for big band, and too punchy for legit stuff.

1.5S isn't cutting it - good color, but fails in the trigger C/B response.

I'll also note that my instrument originally had a nickel-silver handslide, and I'm on a darker mouthpiece now in addition to the yellow brass slide, so going nickel on the leadpipe might be more of a return to its baseline sound.

(Definitely has to be a 2 though.)