TromboneChat

I had what I thought was an extremely interesting chat about interpretation and musical genres on the Peter Steiner thread shut down as it wasn't "on topic" for discussing Peter's playing. So sometimes it's not just about the threads started/not started, it can be discussions that are encouraged/discouraged too.

The thread devolved into a discussion of his equipment.

There was also a lot of discussion of different instruments and interpretation, although I personally would not shut down a thread for that unless we had really strayed from the original topic.

People and arguably men have been falling in love or worshipping their tools for a long time. Another facet of of the obsession is a contingent that try to play every genre on a large bore instrument. Since one size fits none, a search for the Holy Grail is born: Good luck, Indiana. There are probably quite a few people on this forum that are properly trained and understand form and analysis, and interpretation, well enough to discuss it. It often requires an audio link and risk of ridicule for the reward of a “meh” response, as Harrison observed, or getting slapped round by an Internet Troll (IT). The first thing Bela Rosza said in many of his composition classes was that he didn’t care whether anyone “enjoyed “ a piece or not. He wanted students to understand the music and how it worked.

TLDR bottom line: You’re right. The site is obsessed with equipment. And you’re also wrong. You’re not out of step. You’re exactly where you’re supposed to be. Bela Rosza’s favorite joke was, “Why are we here. Because we’re not there.”

Ozzlefinch wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 4:35 pm Your entire contribution to the Trombone chat X-mas project discussion was a single post that said, "good job guys".

Be the change you want to see.

First time I've ever been chastised for complimenting someone.

It was a perfect opportunity to engage in a good discussion about the creation of the project and it was completely missed, yet she feels the need to call out the entire forum for not being focused on music?

And if she is contributing, then what is the nature of the complaint? The algorithm doesn't match expectations? People like to talk about equipment - so what? Seriously, what is the harm in that?

And is writing music a natural progression from playing music? Does not writing mean that a trombone player is failing to achieve some standards? Says who?

I felt such a discussion was utterly unnecessary and would have distracted and detracted from the wonderful music performance folks here put together. My comment/compliment went to the music, and I felt no need to distract from it by trying to start a pointless discussion about "the creation of the project." Indeed, I'm still pretty new here, and I have no idea about the creating of the Christmas recording project. This is the first time I've seen it, but I enjoyed it immensely. So a second "Bravo!" to all who gave their time, energy and talent to give us a wonderful Christmas music performance!

So, why didn't YOU start that discussion if you thought it was so important that you had to call me out about it months later and denigrate me for offering a compliment to those who performed? I'm afraid I'm not seeing the legitimacy in this criticism of me.

By the way, I didn't call out anyone by starting this thread, and I wasn't complaining about anything. I simply made an observation, thought it was interesting, and decided to start a discussion about it. Plus, not being, as OneTon put it, one of the "men [who] have been falling in love or worshipping their tools," I didn't quite understand the reason for the predominance of equipment posts over what I use my tools for, making music. I think this has been an interesting thread, and I have learned quite a bit. I'm glad I started the discussion. It's unfortunate that you took offense, and a little bizarre that you called me out for complimenting people's music performance.

But it's all good. I appreciate your contribution and will try to find the good advice in it that I'm sure you intended.

Ozzlefinch wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:51 pm The algorithm doesn't match expectations?

Hardware comments usually involve naming a component and possibly some measurements and/or other quality. Equipment comments can be quick and effortless.

For example: “Those models had yellow brass outer tubes and the inside diameter of the tubes was .597 inch.

Discussion about music interpretation involves lengthy posts that must be composed with great care and sensitivity. I find that discussion about the art of making music is much more time-consuming.

Why are there more posts about equipment than music performance? A post about equipment only takes a fraction of the time. My posts about equipment are usually done in 3 minutes or less. My posts about interpretation usually take 20 minutes or more.

In Jeep forums, been there, where pre and post purchase gear talk is high, perhaps these "non-gear" topics:

"Where are you playing your trombone today? (pics)"

and

"Should trombonists wave to each other in passing?"

I did not follow the Steiner conversation fully. I generally agree with the statement that thia forum is too equipment based, and I am guilty of that as well.

I am not sure what the exact reason for that is but I do suspect it to have to do with the fact that equipment can be bought, traded, imrpoved, damaged etc. while nusical performance remains somewhat a personal taste as well as requiring maybe more individual skill to comment on in a qualified way.

I thought it was interesting when Toby Oft brought it up in a somewhat recent video saying that it is great that trombonists talk about equipment but its not good if its the thing they talk about the most. (Paraphrase).

I also think that the amount of equipment discussion relates directly to the fact that there are a lot of people on this forum who enjoy the trombone as a hobby. One of the most fun aspects of any hobby is trying, and playing around with, all the toys associated with it (think of golfers endlessly buying the new, "latest, greatest-ever" driver). Crazy4's remark about it being easier to talk equipment about carries weight too. I enjoy experimenting with equipment quite a bit, but, playing for a living, I value most what I trust to work as consistently and effortlessly as possible when the "red light" is one - even when I'm trying something new on the side. I'm always careful about messing with what works, which in some respects is the opposite of a hobbyist approach; which often is enjoying the pleasure of discovering new things while regularly re-energizing your interest as you improve. My equipment experiments are more conservative, in that I'm trying to improve and refine within my comfort zone, since I perceive a failed equipment experiment as a risk with real (possibly negative) job consequences vs. an enlightening and fun experiment.

-Just my personal perspective; other user experiences may differ substantially.

slideandtraps wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:56 pm
"Should trombonists wave to each other in passing?"

Only if they use all the fingers.

RustBeltBass wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:25 am
I thought it was interesting when Toby Oft brought it up in a somewhat recent video saying that it is great that trombonists talk about equipment but its not good if its the thing they talk about the most. (Paraphrase).

Toby is one of my all time favorite trombonists. He is an incredible musician, teacher, and his output is phenomenal.

He also has a custom trombone to his specifications with his name on it and an entire line of custom mouthpieces so he must (relative to the forum here) REALLY talk about a lot of music for that to be fair.

Who am I kidding, of course he does. But you see my point.

I totally relate to this post. It struck a chord in me for sure.

CheeseTray wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 10:22 am I also think that the amount of equipment discussion relates directly to the fact that there are a lot of people on this forum who enjoy the trombone as a hobby. One of the most fun aspects of any hobby is trying, and playing around with, all the toys associated with it (think of golfers endlessly buying the new, "latest, greatest-ever" driver). Crazy4's remark about it being easier to talk equipment about carries weight too. I enjoy experimenting with equipment quite a bit, but, playing for a living, I value most what I trust to work as consistently and effortlessly as possible when the "red light" is one - even when I'm trying something new on the side. I'm always careful about messing with what works, which in some respects is the opposite of a hobbyist approach; which often is enjoying the pleasure of discovering new things while regularly re-energizing your interest as you improve. My equipment experiments are more conservative, in that I'm trying to improve and refine within my comfort zone, since I perceive a failed equipment experiment as a risk with real (possibly negative) job consequences vs. an enlightening and fun experiment.

-Just my personal perspective; other user experiences may differ substantially.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 10:28 am Toby is one of my all time favorite trombonists. He is an incredible musician, teacher, and his output is phenomenal.

He also has a custom trombone to his specifications with his name on it and an entire line of custom mouthpieces so he must (relative to the forum here) REALLY talk about a lot of music for that to be fair.

Who am I kidding, of course he does. But you see my point.

Same, I am a huge Toby Head!! Great point.