Y-Fort YSL763GL Trombone Review.

[SamBTbrn]

Hello everyone, Since the Y-fort Brand of trombone have started to pop up around as recommendations in the occasional thread, and as I have just recently purchased one, I thought I would write up a review and share my thoughts on this new trombone.

Why did I buy one?

I work fulltime as a Bass trombonist in the Netherlands, occasionally I play tenor when I am required to double or play with rock/pop bands. For this I normally use a Bach 36 as I am either doubling 2nd trombone and Bass or playing as the only trombonist along with a trumpet or sax. However, this year I’ve been booked to play for a show that will last at least a year which requires a trombone which can play with a mix of pop/rock as well as a larger orchestral sound. My Bach 36 is a fantastic trombone but unfortunately the medium bore does not fit the sound concept I want for this new production.

Originally I had in mind to buy a 2nd hand Bach, Getzen or similar American style horn with a budget of €2000- €2500, however the 2nd hand market of these instruments in Europe is quite high at the moment, with one in decent condition starting around €3500. I tried a couple that were a bit cheaper and in worse condition but they didn’t work for me.

After seeing the somewhat glowing review by Aidan Ritchie about the NAMM show and the Y-fort trombones, I discovered that Daniel at SwissTbone in Switzerland is now a Europa based dealer. SwissTbone had the screwbell version in my budget and the single bell version for well under it. After some correspondence with Daniel and his recommendations, I thought, why not take the risk and give it a go. I chose the YSL763GL – the screw bell model with a gold bell.

As the Y-fort trombones cost considerably less than other brands (a third of the price in some instances) it is perhaps easy to fall into the trap of reviewing it in the context of “good for the price”. However, I will conduct the review of the instrument without considering its lower cost until the conclusion. I think it only fair to hold it to the same standards as the professional models from other makers such as Courtois, Shires and Bach.

Y-fort, Who?

I’m not surprised if you have never head of this brand before, I hadn’t either. So let’s join together for a quick history lesson over who and what the Y-fort Instruments brand is.

Y-Fort is a company run under the direction of Yang Fan. Yang Fan is a Chinese trumpet player who studied Mechanical Engineering and Automation at the Beijing Institute of Aeronautics. After working as Chief officer of the technology development department at the Beijing Xinghai Musical Instrument Group, he took a job in 1994 with the Taiwan Gongxueshe Group, which is the Chinese company responsible for the Asian division of Jupiter.

In 2002, Yang Fan started his own wind instrument factory, the Beijing Forti Musical Instruments Co, which in 2004 joined with Qian Ni, the director of Eastman Music Company to start the Eastmans wind instrument division. In addition to producing wind instruments for Eastmans, the factory also continued producing its own brand of student instruments for the domestic Chinese market under the name Y-Fort winds.

With the creation of the wind instrument division, Eastmans approached the S.E Shires company to help design and advise on the production of their trombones. In 2008 to expand production they moved Eastmans and Y-fort to a new, larger, streamlined factory called the Xianghe Eastman Musical Instruments Company. In 2014 Eastmans bought S.E Shires out of their bankruptcy also taking over production in America.

It seems sometime around 2019 Yang Fan decided that Y-fort instruments were ready to venture into the market with a line of professional level trumpets and trombones. Starting with trumpets they have now turned their full attention to trombones, and the results are the instruments that started to appear at trade shows in 2023.

So what does this all mean? Well, after a decade of working alongside S.E Shires, the director of one of Eastman’s Chinese factories has decided to produce his own line of professional level trombones. They are based on a new design developed by his own company and are built at the Eastmans wind factory in Xianghe by the builders who now work on among other things the Eastman trombone range, which possibly includes aspects of the Shires Q line.

So now we know a little bit about who we are dealing with and what we can expect, let’s get on with the review.

Shipping.

The Shipping was a standard affair as with other trombone manufactures. The trombone came in a Y-fort branded Cardboard Box with fitted foam packing. The trombone case, wrapped in protective plastic was suspended in the fitted foam. The gap between the case and the box was filled with various inflated plastic packing and shredded cardboard. The instrument was well secured in the case and arrived with no damage.

Trombone Case.

Exterior

The YSL763L and YSL763GL screw bell models are supplied with a case that can only be described as extremely similar to the Marcus Bonna “Case for Detachable Bell Tenor Trombone model MB”. It comes in a rich green cross stich over a black under weave, faux brown leather accents and brown handles. The metal caps for when you place the case on the ground have a brushed brass finish. It’s a nice combination that’s not offensive and looks professional. Sorry for those who love their hot pink and purple cases.

The outer fabric is durable, but has a lower thread count then the material that MB cases use. There are a few small places where there were loose threads from the stitching process, but these are only superficial and overall the quality of the stitching is extremely high. I will have to use the case for a longer time to see how it holds up to daily wear and tear, but after a month, it still looks brand new.

I found the placement of the faux leather at the lower and upper backside of the case a nice inclusion, as this is a high friction area against your back. The smooth leather-like prevents the fabric wearing down from continued friction while walking or cycling.

I was elated to discover that the sheet music pocket is removable. The biggest advantage of the screw bell cases, besides the reduced weight is how compact they are, so it’s always a shame when the music pouches stick out and are not detachable.

Something to look out for however, the detachable pouch is held on by 3 long strips of Velcro. The Velcro is the same colour brown as the other brown accents so it looks in keeping when removed, but I have a concern that over time the Velcro might lose its strength and if stuffed full might detach under its own weight. When grabbed it comes off relatively easily so theft could also be a problem. I have been cycling with it over the last few week and so far it has remained firmly attached, but I would be worried about traveling with it on a motorbike or with a laptop inside.

A better solution perhaps would be to have it attached with a zipper, as per the MB version, but whether this concern is proven or not will only come with time. Overall I am more glad that it is removable then not.

The shoulder straps are comfortable to wear and are a nice width and with soft padding. The mounting for them are steal clips, so they are very sturdy. I only wish that the handle straps had a clip or Velcro band to keep them together like on the MB cases, but that’s nitpicking.

The weight of the case without trombone and music pouch is 4kg. With the sheet music pouch you gain an extra 400gr taking it up to 4.4kg which is slightly heavier than the MB equivalent case which comes in at 3.8kg with music pouch. With the Y-fort trombone inside, the total weight is 6.2kg.

Interior

The inside of the case is in a word, Fantastic. Finished in a quality as high as MB and other leading brands, but improved in a key area.

The case interior is a soft black padded material and includes a black Velcro faux-leather leadpipe holder/pencil case, fabric screwbell cover, two small Velcro hard foam blocks for securing the slide and three large Velcro soft foam blocks. One block supports the tuning slide area so there is no pressure on the valve while in the case. One holds and protect the screw-ring end of the bell and one is behind the tuning slide to keep it from bumping against the accessories box. These inclusions are what I would consider “as standard” in a high quality case today, and I am genuinely surprised when I buy a case that does not include movable protective padding blocks.

The improvement in its design, in my opinion are the inclusion of two interior braces located above the tuning slide area and the water key on the slide. These braces add a rigidity that I have missed in the new MB cases. On a new model MB Contrabass screwbell case, I noticed that the metal clips that sit along the edge of the case after travel, would end up behind each other instead meaning that the zipper edge of the case had been pushed inwards during travel. While only a small issue, it demonstrates a weakness along that joining edge and if extensive weight or a sharp hit is sustained on that area, the trombone inside could be damaged. These two extra supports look like they have fixed this problem, offering extra protection and stability in the case.

With all the padding and braces in the correct location; the slide, bell and bell flare are held perfectly secure within the case and do not shift or move around even when violently jolted.

One small thing I would like to see improved is the fabric screwbell cover. I wish it had just a touch more padding in it but again, nitpicking.

Overall, this is an impressive, well-designed, high quality, professional level case. If whoever makes this in China decides to sell it to the international market, at what I would assume would be a reasonable “made in China” price – watch out!

The Trombone

At first viewing, this trombone looks great. It has a nice shape with consideration to proportions and the valve porting. It is an open wrap, but does not stick out too far over the back of the horn and comes with what I would call a Shires inspired bell engraving of flowers surrounding the Y-fort brand Logo. The valve cap, valve leaver and water key have a sandblasted, satin brass finish, which I think looks great and adds if only small, an extra look of luxury.

The trombone comes with three removable leadpipes, no 1, 2 and 3 and not to escape the current trend towards large rubber slide ball stoppers like on the Thein trombones, this instrument includes a decent sized black ball. The total weight of the trombone is 1.8kg.

Valve

I would be remiss if I didn’t start this section off by discussing the new rotary valve that comes with this instrument. Before purchasing I was intrigued by how different it would be. Sure, the two 180degree ports off the valve are rather unique, but how different could the internals be?

Starting at the back of the valve everything looks normal, it’s on the front side where we see the start of something new. In the centre of the Rotor cap there is a hole that fits an Allen key which is supplied with the instrument. Inside this hole is a small bolt with a ball bearing on the end. The bearing is supported with a spring which allows the depression of the bearing. Think along the lines of how a ballpoint pen works.

This ball bearing touches the centre of the forward end of the main spindle. If over-tightened, the pressure from this bolt on the spindle prevents the rotor from moving, but with a small adjustment to back it off the valve turns smoothly once again. This bolt is what keeps the rotor from shifting back and forwards in the casing.

After removing the valve cap you see the rotor backing plate. Two things are immediately noticeably. Firstly, embedded through the plate are three screws. Secondly and perhaps more surprising, the whole backing plate which on most valves is press fitted into the valve casing, is not only loose but is easily removable by hand. Normally to remove a valve plate requires the technician to hit the spindle with a wooden dowel and hammer to pop the plate off. Instead the Y-fort valve has a little groove in the casing which lines up with a corresponding bump on the plate. With the bump and groove aligned, the valve plate just pulls off.

Turning the plate around it becomes clear what the three screws are for. The inside-facing part of the plate, which functions as a bearing point for the valve spindle to rotate against, is also removable. By loosening the bolts, the bearing plate can be removed and replaced a with a new one. Is this a feature? I have no idea. It will make repairing a damaged or worn bearing plate much easier which I am all for, but this is not something that you find on other valves, so I wonder what made them include it on this one.

From this point the valve follows the same path as previous designs, the rotor itself looks similar to standard rotors such as from Bach. The back of the valve casing does just screws off though, meaning to finish taking the valve apart one simply has to disconnect the miniball linkage, undo the main spindle bolt, unscrew the ring and pull the rotor out of the casing. A nice simple operation for removing the valve for maintenance.

Whether as a conscious design or an outcome of streamlining the manufacturing process, (other instrument builders feel free to chime in on this!) I like the easy access that this valve gives you for maintenance. Like a Thayer valve, it doesn’t take a technician to be able to take the valve apart to clean it out. You can do it yourself at home. As for the tension bolt in the valve cap, I am hoping that I can just set it and forget it, but if I have to tweak it every month or so, then that’s an acceptable amount of work for having the valve run at its smoothest and quickest.

One thing that I have noticed while playing it is there is about half a centimetre of extra travel before you feel the note start to be effected by the valve. After it’s fully engaged it then feels like it still needs to rotate half a millimetre more or so to be really aligned in the centre.

While this second point can easily be fixed by cutting the top rubber stop shorter, the first makes this valve feel like it takes longer to engage then needed. It is not the shortest of movements from a valve I’ve played and with this unnecessary travel, makes trills and slurs in and out of the valve more arduous than they should be.

Bell section

The bell is really well constructed and when holding the instrument, the build quality looks to be extremely high. When you get up close for a more detailed look, there are one or two places where the solder is uneven and not consistent. The places where this is most noticeable is on the detachable bell collar where it is pretty bad, the soldered bell rim and one or two of the joints.

This is one point where I think the quality control of some of the main competitors get slightly ahead. On these instruments you can’t normally see the solder at the joints at all.

Another area where the quality control has got a little away from Y-fort is in the lacquer.
98% of the lacquer is great, but in a few spots you can see where cloth fibres or dust have gotten caught during the drying process and make little squiggly raised sections.

Oddly, the top side of the bell flare feels completely different to the rest of the instrument. Perhaps during the finishing process the bell was not sanded enough or not enough lacquer was applied? When compared to the rest of the bell section, which has that lovely smooth-to-touch feeling you get from high quality finish, the bell flare feels rough and scratchy. If you run your fingernail around it you can feel and hear it scratching across the surface. The inside of the bell flare feels smooth like the rest of the trombone, so it is only the top side that is rough. You don’t see a difference but it is noticeable to the touch and a small letdown compared to the finish on the rest of the horn, which both looks and feels amazing.

The bell collar used by Y-fort is on the smaller and lighter side of what you can find on other trombones. It is probably closest in size and weight to that used on the Courtois bells. (Though I hear that Griego and Edwards are working on a super lightweight collar.) It is easy to screw on and off and so far I have had no problems with misaligned screw threads. The bell flare is also quite light, weighing in at 190grams, so the instrument does not feel overly front heavy.

The finishing touches on the bell section are the engravings. The floral and leaf pattern on the bell have a pleasant look and is a nice touch, really popping the bell. While I don’t think its hand engraved, it is engraved and not Lazer etched and so it adds a real premium feeling to the instrument.

I wish however they would stop stamping the valve serial number on the side of the valve like they have. It really makes the instrument look cheap and like it was made on a factory production line in China. I understand the contradiction in that, Y-fort trombones are made on a production line in a factory in China, but if Y-fort is chasing a more premium market with this instrument which I think they are, this large ugly 6 number serial stamp has got to go.

Slide

The slide that comes with both the YSL763L and the YSL763GL has a yellow outer slide with Bach/Shires style sleeves, crook and handles. For now that is the only option available. The inner-tubes are the standard chrome affair and the receiver comes with 3 interchangeable brass leadpipes. They are inserted with a screw thread and each are the same length but have different thicknesses and tapers.

I think the hardest thing for any builder to get right when making a trombone is to build an amazing slide and Y-fort….. is not quite there. If I had to give it a mark I would say around 8/10.

I remember reading a conversation about how long it should take to break in a new slide vs a slide does not need to be broken in if it’s made well. I lean more towards the latter. My shires slide was incredible when I bought it in 2010, as was my Bach’s when I bought a new slide in 2012 and again my Markus Leuchter in 2021. If the slide needs to be “broken in” that means to me that there is a misalignment somewhere that needs to be worked over until it runs smoothly. You can definitely make a not so great slide better but you shouldn’t have to if you’re buying a professional level trombone.

Out of the box the slide felt sluggish and was rather loud when used. I switched over to using Trombontine for the old “buff it out with the cream” technique and it has gotten alot better. I can see on the stockings that it is starting to work, but it is clear that there are misalignments somewhere in the tubes. Running my hands down the outer slide I can also feel some places where they are not completely smooth and when using the slide, once the sleeves reach lower towards the stockings I can feel and hear them rubbing on something.

Every week it gets better and this is something that probably can be fixed with a service by a tech. I will be taking mine asap to my local, shout out to Marcel at Atelier Pfeiffer in Den Haag who is a wiz with slides, but it really should be much better from the start.

I also find the slide a little on the heavy side, I’ve played regular bass slides that feel lighter and the numbers don’t lie. The Y-fort slide weighs 615gams. For a comparison, my Shires basstrombone slide weighs only 581grams and my Bach 36 slide is 563grams.

Now to a conversation about interchanging parts. The slide and leadpipes from the Y-fort are not compatible with other makers and vice versa. Sadly, it is not new in the trombone world to make instrument parts incompatible from other makers, so I can’t blame Y-fort for following the trend, but wouldn’t it be nice if swapping parts from brands were possible? I don’t think will ever happen and instead we will have to continue altering parts to make them work together. Such as life.

Overall it is a shame that the slide is not up to the same level that I find the rest of the YSL763GL. While it’s not horrible, when compared next to my 14 year old Shires slide it falls short. Shires is definitely one company you really want to try to match when it comes to a flawless slide.

Playability and sound.

Now to the most important questions, what is the YSL763GL like to play and how does it sound.
It’s hard to come up with words for just how easy this instrument is to play. While it’s very free blowing and feels even and open across all the registers, it keeps from being “over the top open” like some instruments where you feel like your air just disappears. It gives you just enough resistance to have something to blow against.

The new valve plays very well and I find that it sits somewhere between the Meinleschmidt and the standard Bach 42 valve. Like the open horn, it is even and open across all registers and the sound when engaged is a close match to that of the trombone without the valve pressed. I’ve definitely played on “professional” instruments with more of a mismatch between the open horn and when the valve is pressed.

While in the hands the instrument feels light and the weight distribution is very ergonomic, if perhaps a touch front heavy. It is comfortable to hold up and play for extended periods of time as well as when moving around on stage. The problems mentioned with the slide make fast playing feel a little like hard work, but it’s not impossible. The more I play on it and get used to it, the less I notice it.

When playing, articulation doesn’t feel laboured, in fact the opposite. If you want it light and popping, it responds with clarity. Weighty articulation doesn’t overexpose the sound and if you want that “good kind of ugly” attack it will give it to you, but it’s not the default. So when you relax off a little, the instrument follows.

Now to the sound.
A real challenge when writing an instrument review is how do you describe the sound of an inanimate object? does a trombone have its own sound or is it the player or both? Also, what even is good sound? To me, it’s a discussion about characteristics.

Every trombone has its own characteristics, just like every trombonist. A great sounding trombone is one where the characteristics of the instrument do not work against those of the musician, but instead supports them. Alessi, Conant, Lindberg, Jarvis, I could list forever, sound like themselves no matter which trombone they play. They, like everyone else, choose their trombones based on whether it works with them to create their ideal sound, instead of fighting against them. For some, this comes in the Conn design, others Bach, others Thein or Courtois or Kruspe but what is common across all of these trombones is that they resonate freely, project the sound and offer the musicians the flexibility to add their personal colour to the sound.

In this respect the Y-fort is a great sounding trombone. Like a nice blank canvas, I find it gives me the freedom to create all the sounds that I envisage without extra work. In the soft dynamics, where the risk is for the sound to diffuse, it keeps the core and lets you add the colours you want. In the middle dynamics it’s efficient and really resonates. At the extremely loud dynamics it holds an unaggressive sound fantastically well. If on the other hand, you need to say, cut down a large tree or blow up Alderaan, it will do it for you with pleasure.

The three leadpipes that come with the instrument add customizability to the characteristics. Each of them really play differently, which is what you want out of interchangeable leadpipes. What’s the point if they all play the same.

For me the no.1 supported a large, full sound, which would be great for playing in a large symphony orchestra. The no.2 added a little bit more brightness and projection and is what I have chosen to daily drive. The no.3 focused the sound a bit more, offering more definition, flexibility and ease in the upper registers but fought against me in the lower. As always, everyone has their own preferences and what feels good for me may not for you, but with three to choose from, there is a good chance you will find one that helps the instrument support you in your own sound.

Conclusions

First, two anecdotes from two different playing situations.

Last week I brought the Y-fort along to a rehearsal for a recording session I have with a rock band to compare it against my Bach 36. The brass is only trombone and trumpet and while the Y-fort had a broader sound than the 36, it still blended well with the trumpet and I could get it to give me a nice punchy sound that matched with what the band wanted. I won’t use it for all the songs in the upcoming session but I will definitely be using it on the two or three charts where the music is a bit more of a funk-rock fusion. The larger sound really added some extra depth and fatness while still being punchy. After the rehearsal the trumpet player and the bassist told me that they preferred the Y-fort on nearly all of the tracks over the 36 and they were both really impressed by it.

In the same week I also brought it along to my job in one of the Dutch Orchestras for my colleagues to try out. They normally play on a Conn 8H and a Bach 42, or a matching set of Courtois 421 New York tenor trombones with screwbells (a perfect comparison for the Y-fort). They tried the Y-fort out before the rehearsal, playing some excerpts from the standard tenor solos, David, Grondahl, Guilmant, Dorsey and they both sounded incredible.

They then both took turns playing it during the rehearsal. One from the start until the lunch break and the other after lunch until the end of rehearsal. At the end of the rehearsal they both agreed, somewhat hilariously that they enjoyed playing on the Y-fort more than the new Courtois the orchestra had just purchased for them (please don’t tell our management!). They both did however note the slide without me prompting them and agreed that it needs some work to be up to the standard they expect in a pro-level slide.

So, let’s talk money. If this trombone cost €5000 would I buy it? The answer is, well maybe not, but I would certainly consider it. Judging on playabilty, the only reason why I would or wouldn’t buy one at a store would depend on the slide. I really enjoy how this trombone plays, but if I had a choice between two similarly playing instruments, I would take the one with the better slide from a maker I’m familiar with, where dealing with warranty and repair is a known quantity. Throwing a spanner in the works however, this is not a €5000 instrument.

This trombone from Swisstbone, with case and shipping included is €2150. In America I saw it listed at Raymond Music with case for $1,900 but excluding shipping. The Non-screwbell version is even cheaper at €1850.

At this price point, the Y-fort is utterly astounding.
Everyone I’ve had play this trombone says it at least competes with, if not beats some of the professional line American style trombones built by Courtois, Bach and even Shires. And I have to agree.

If I had an unlimited budget I would have purchased a M&W. I think those instruments are just sublime works of art, but as I didn’t, I am very glad I gave the Y-fort a chance. For the price, I can put up with the small QC issues and the slide. If I had purchased a 2nd-hand American style large bore tenor in my budget, I doubt I would have been able to find an instrument that played nearly as well and certainly not one with a screwbell.


Final thoughts.

So let’s wrap this up. While there is still room for optimization in the valve design and a couple of kinks to iron out when it comes down to the finer finishing details, it’s safe to say that the slide is the only real downside to the Y-fort YSL763GL. If the Y-fort builders can get the slides right, and I know its not just on mine where there was a problem (see Aidan Ritchie’s first review with the Y-fort trombone) as well as fix their quality control issues, then these trombone will be another fantastic addition to the options available out there for trombonists.

At €2150 would I recommend you to buy this trombone? If you are in the market for a great playing trombone for traveling or touring, a bass trombonist looking for an instrument to use for doubling work or are a tenor trombonist on a tight budget then this is a no brainer.

The answer is a definite yes.

[bitbckt]

Well thought out, comprehensive review - a joy to read! Thanks for that.

Y-fort certainly seems to have made a splash. I’m very interested in looking at their valve in more detail, if the opportunity arises.

[Posaunus]

Sam,

Thanks for such an insightful (and incredibly thorough) review of the Y-Fort trombone. [Can't they invent a better name?] Next thing I expect from them are Greg Black-quality mouthpieces for $25!

[Finetales]

Great write-up. I suppose this is as good a place as any to add my own Y-Fort experience.

I bought my YSL-763L (yellow screw bell) straight from the booth at NAMM 2023. (My horn is the one Aidan made his first Y-Fort video with). It replaced my long-serving 1962 Conn 88H as my main (and only) large bore tenor. Since then, I have used it on principal trombone in an orchestra, in recording sessions, and playing trombone chamber music. It has performed wonderfully in all situations (all with the #2 leadpipe) and I'm just as happy with it now as I was when I bought it.

SamBTbrn's comments on just how easy the Y-Fort is to play are spot on. For me, it takes all the difficulty and guesswork out of playing large bore tenor...it does exactly what I want it to with minimal effort. Just like my 3Bs do. While it doesn't have a sound quite as magical as my 88H did, it's not far off. In fact, in some situations I think it sounds even better. But in all ways, it has a unique sound that's INTERESTING. It's easy to color and steer where you want it to go expressively like a good vintage horn, while having none of the quirks or difficulties that come with most vintage horns.

I tried all the large bores on the floor at that NAMM, and out of the whole show I put the Y-Fort at #3 - and NOT a distant #3 mind you - behind the Courtois New Yorker and Shires Rejano...both of which cost 3 times as much.

At the Y-Fort booth they had a couple of screw bell models (including the one I bought) as well as a couple of non-screw bell models. At least from that sample, all of them played pretty much exactly the same. The screw bell comes with that wonderful Bonna-style screw bell case and removable pipes, but the non-screw bell models are a good bit cheaper while still playing great. I would absolutely recommend buying any new Y-Fort large tenor over most used pro tenors in that price range. (The intermediate .525 is not nearly as good, I wouldn't recommend that.)

Next thing I expect from them are Greg Black-quality mouthpieces for $25!

The Y-Fort 6 1/2 AL (large shank) that came with mine is a comically bad mouthpiece. But I tried their trumpet mouthpieces at NAMM and loved them, as well as the Bb and C trumpets themselves. So I'm sure they'll eventually figure out trombone mouthpieces as well.

[Burgerbob]

In a funny coincidence, I just bought the same model. I haven't used it irl first, but I have it with my on vacation!

[harrisonreed]

Yeah that is dope. Did you fly with it?

Is the bell bead soldered or unsoldered?

[Posaunus]

In a funny coincidence, I just bought the same model. I haven't used it irl first, but I have it with my on vacation!

How are your slide and valve? Better than Sam's?

[Burgerbob]

My slide is fine, not Shires quality but it works. May have Sandhagen take a look.

My bell seems fine as well, but my screwbell threads are not perfect. I think one of the rings may be out of round. In any case, I can still get it on.

It plays and sounds GREAT.

And yes, flew with it here (music pocket and all straps removed from the case).

I believe the bell is soldered. For a screwbell, it has great feedback.

[SamBTbrn]

Thanks everyone for reading the review, I'm glad you enjoyed it and I hope you found it usefull!
Here are some pictures of the valve disassembly.

PXL_20240122_124903233~2.jpg

PXL_20240122_123926999~2.jpg

PXL_20240122_124718989~2.jpg

PXL_20240122_124654819~2.jpg

PXL_20240122_123901715~2.jpg

PXL_20240122_123901715~3.jpg

Best
Sam

[bitbckt]

Here are some pictures of the valve disassembly.

Thanks!

[Matt K]

Is that essentially a grease nipple? I've wondered for years why something like that isn't built-in to the valve so it's easier to lubricate.

[SamBTbrn]

Is that essentially a grease nipple? I've wondered for years why something like that isn't built-in to the valve so it's easier to lubricate.

You know, you might right.
The tip sits directly above the bearing plate.

[hornbuilder]

No, it isn't a Grease nipple. It is a set screw to regulate end play. I will not comment of the usefulness of such a thing.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Those screws are more common on tuba rotors. I have seen many Mirafone tubas with those.

[SlideCrook]

I hope they release a bass trombone.

[ithinknot]

It's fundamentally a way of getting (temporary) decent action from suboptimal parts (and, possibly, reduce fitting time at the factory), though there is something to be said for easy user disassembly.

Cast aluminum core?

[Burgerbob]

I believe it's nickel plated brass. Need to check

[greenbean]

Miraphone tuba valves are "suboptimal"?...

[Posaunus]

Are there ANY "optimal" parts?

[Finetales]

spit valve

[SwissTbone]

Thanks for a great review!

I especially agree with you on the ease of play with the Y-Fort. It makes playing large bore tenor "fun" again for me.

As for the slides, I have decided to have all Y-Fort slides serviced and aligned by a renowned brass specialist here in Switzerland before shipping them. Yes, I will take a hit on the margin with that, but it's what I believe is necessary to deliver a top-quality product. Please send me your invoice from Atelier Pfeiffer when you get your slide work done, and I will cover the cost for you.

[ithinknot]

Miraphone tuba valves are "suboptimal"?...

That wasn't my main point (and tuba tolerances might not be universally applicable) but, ultimately... "less end play" is better than "more end play", but taking up slack with a screw can't maintain concentricity and reduce long term wear in the way that properly fitted tapered bearings at both ends can.

Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread further. Y-Fort are clearly getting quite a lot right, and I hope they can sort out the slides.

And kudos to SwissTbone - that's some good dealering.

[Burgerbob]

I have had my horn for a good time now and used it in a few settings outside the home (as well as a bunch of practice!). I have a longer-term review up now.



The gist? It's a very, very good horn with a couple compromises (most noticeably the fundamental in the sound) for a price that cannot be beat at this point.

[SwissTbone]

Thanks for that video! Coincidentally, I had a trombone testing session yesterday with a principal player of a German opera orchestra. We tested a highly customized Bach Corporation 42 (Hagmann, screw bell, etc.), a Courtois Creation Paris, and a Y-Fort YSL763L—the yellow brass screw bell version. We both agreed, the Y-Fort was probably the best horn out of those three. Pretty amazing considering it costs about a third of the Courtois and the Bach (with all the work put in).

Some long-term observations from my side after playing a Y-Fort exclusively for the last 6 or 7 months and having tested several of them as I sell them through my website. Keep in mind, I'm not a professional trombonist but more of an ambitious amateur player.

I completely agree with you—with Y-Fort, it's all about ease of play. As I said in an earlier post: it just makes playing large bore tenor trombone fun again. The slots are very predictable, intonation is very predictable, and articulations are easier than most tenors I've had so far. I didn't get to play this in a big orchestra, but I used it in lots of different settings: 2nd trombone in a British style brass band (very loud, sometimes a little over the top playing…), 1st trombone in chamber orchestras, 1st and 2nd trombone in bigger wind orchestras, etc. Yes, it sounds much clearer than what I'm used to from my Bach 42 Hagmann, but not in a negative way. The Y-Fort sounds clear, but without screaming and yelling and having that "red line" sound all the time. I struggled a little in that brass band setting because I thought my sound was too bright for second (with that volume), but after relaxing a little more, I was able to get a nice round sound and fill out the section nicely. I also found I didn't have to work as much as I thought to match the volume of the rest of the band.

Another enlightening experience was playing 2nd in a very good wind orchestra. I know that trombone section well—they play particularly dark and large, so I was a bit worried with the Y-Fort. But it turned out I was able to blend in quite nicely. Yes, the section probably sounded a little brighter than it would have sounded with my Bach, but still a very good section sound. 2nd trombone didn't stick out

As for build consistency: I didn't have problems with the different screw bells or the valve caps that you describe. Out of the 10 or 12 horns I playtested, I found the build quality was very consistent. Slides need some additional cleaning and breaking in, but they get pretty good after that.

Y-Forts have become my standard recommendation for students or amateur players—just choose if you want a rose brass or yellow bell with or without a screw bell. Professional players also buy these, but more as a backup or travel horn. Or bass trombone players who need a large bore tenor to double on.

People often ask me if the Y-Forts hold up well: My particular trombone still looks like new after some months, so the lacquer seems to be pretty durable. Never had a problem with the valve sticking, slide got better and better and is now good. So I'd say they hold up pretty well for now.

Thinking about all the tenors I've played so far, two particular horns stick out as the best ones I've played: A Thein Universal 2 and a Getzen 4147IB. And then? A lot of trombones are in the "really good" category, with that Y-Fort being probably the best of them.