Refinish an Olds Standard?

[ghmerrill]

I'd mostly like opinions on whether there would be any benefit to doing this (either myself or having it done). And by "benefit" I mean any functional benefit -- I don't care about the appearance, which isn't at all bad.

I'm not a tenor player, but thought I should start playing this just for kicks. I've only played it a few times (small group Xmas performances). I got it via Ebay about 7 years ago and paid $125 for it (including an Olds #3 mouthpiece and a good hard case that it fits in nicely).

This is a 1947 Olds Standard with the (fairly uncommon) "serpentine" braces. I had the outter slide straightened, had the inners aligned, and some really minor dents removed elsewhere. I believe the inners are replacements since they're in pristine condition (also round rather than hex -- but I think at least some of these horns had original round ones anyway). All original, matching numbers on slide and bell section. Altogether, including the Kelly 12c I tend to use on it, I have about $150 in this horn.

Aside from places where there is some obvious hand wear, the horn has a fairly dark (almost bronze) color to it, but "splotchy"/uneven in places. There are a number of surface "blemishes" but no real scratches. The current lacquer appears to be quite heavy, and I suspect it's an epoxy that was put on after the original was removed (?) but without polishing the horn -- giving it a kind of "frozen in time" look in terms of surface appearance. I'm okay with it (actually, sort of like it ).

But I'm wondering if it would be worth stripping it, polishing the horn up decently and either keeping it raw (probably waxed) or applying some kind of relatively thin modern "clear coat" to it. Mostly I'm wondering if there might be some benefit regarding it's sound to doing this. I'm in no rush to do it, and may not in any event. But I'm wondering.

Thoughts?

[atopper333]

I’ve had a few of my horns refinished…some played the same, others did not, both good and bad. If you like the way it plays…I’d probably keep it the way it is. The Olds Super I had had a very thick lacquer? to it…sounds the same as you describe. It was a beautiful horn…shouldn’t have parted with it.

Either way…there is always a risk of changing how it plays when stripping. I’m unsure and a bit skeptical of it really changes the sound all that much, but as to my opinion, it can drastically change feedback to the player.

[ghmerrill]

Thanks. I may just give it a good long trial period. I'm quite sure the lacquer isn't original because it's not worn in ANY places -- including those that are showing as bright brass while everything else is a darker patina/bronze. But if I'm not likely to get some clear benefit from refinishing, then I'm not inclined to ruin an otherwise "interesting" appearance or invite any changes in performance.

[ryebrye]

I recently redid an Olds Recording that I could have sworn had been spray-coated over the original degraded lacquer because the layer under it was so many weird and different colors. I think it was actually just that somehow it found a way to get corroded / oxidized under the original lacquer.

For what it's worth, it was really easy to strip the Olds Recording - I could have done it all with really hot water if I was patient enough (I tested it out on the tuning slide first and saw it peeled off easily when I submerged it into boiling water, and verified that it polished up pretty easily with Mothers Mag's metal polish stuff I got from the hardware store). I ended up using Citristrip on it because I thought that it would work faster (it seemed to) and would be easier.

If you LIKE the way it looks, by all means keep it that way - but if you wanted to strip is / polish it - it isn't that hard to DIY, but it is time-consuming (I think I spent the better part of a day doing it. Though I did it off and on)

[ghmerrill]

I recently redid an Olds Recording that I could have sworn had been spray-coated over the original degraded lacquer because the layer under it was so many weird and different colors. I think it was actually just that somehow it found a way to get corroded / oxidized under the original lacquer.

Yeah, maybe that's what I'm seeing, but then I'm puzzled about the areas of yellow brass under the lacquer at contact points on the slide.

Olds std.jpg

[ryebrye]

Mine was kind of similar to that. Only with more weird colors and even worse oxidization spots.

I don't know how common it is for someone to see a horn that's tarnishing and then spray on a thick layer of gloss coat (which is what would have had to happen in both our cases) - seems like both of ours kind of aged similarly with some weird non-uniform stuff going on (oxygen slipping in via small pores in the lacquer maybe?)

viewtopic.php?t=34233 I don't have as many pictures of the "before" up there in that thread...

Here's what it looked like before in more detail:

PXL_20240106_163650607.RAW-01.COVER.jpg

PXL_20240106_163709811.RAW-01.COVER.jpg

PXL_20240106_163708056.RAW-01.COVER.jpg

PXL_20240106_163633635.RAW-01.COVER.jpg

Some parts of it were kind of cool - almost like a bowling ball texture with multiple layers of color swirling around... But most of it looked like hot garbage.

[ghmerrill]

Seems a lot like mine. Mine looks pretty cool from a distance of about 10 ft. -- and definitely if not in strong light. But at least now, I've got confidence that probably stripping it wouldn't be too much of a heavy chemical pain.

[ryebrye]

I bought a VOC ventilator mask to use with the Citristrip but ended up leaving it in the bag and never using it. I did it in my garage and it barely stunk at all.

If you filled a bathtub with hot water, it's probably do the trick. Boiling hot isn't necessary. (And maybe over time both our horns were washed with hot water or left in a hot car at some point - hot enough to loosen the lacquer and create little creases air could get in and tarnish the underlying brass, but not enough to actually strip it all? just speculation... hard to say what caused it)

Mother's Mag polish was recommended on another thread - that stuff doesn't stink too bad either. (Blue Magic is also recommended, it does have a bit of an odor)

[ghmerrill]

I have a 3M mask with various filters hanging in my garage/shop as a matter of course. But the citric strippers (and cleaners) are really good, and I rarely resort to the organic solvents nowadays.