TromboneChat

While performing my daily ritualistic online Bass Trombone shopping, I came across something extremely intriguing.

So, as we all know, Yamaha makes a wide variety of Bass Trombone models, such as their professional Xeno orchestral Trombones, the commercial Bass Trombones from the 80's, and their student / intermediate level Basses with one trigger. As it turns out, Yamaha apparently has a collection of "German Style" trombones for sale in various places, some of them being on the internet. Up to this point, I had never even heard of these trombones, and to my knowledge, nothing has really been documented about them. Here's a couple of links I found that could provide context to the situation:

https://fr.yamaha.com/files/download/br ... one_AN.pdf

/\ Check out slide 8

https://reverb.com/item/35875885-yamaha ... s-trombone

/\ Some guy a couple years back posted a listing on reverb for a Yamaha 605 "German Style" bass that supposedly sports an 11 INCH BELL!!

I'm not sure if the seller was telling the truth or not, but I'd like to think Yamaha made an 11 inch bell to scratch their primitive Bass Trombone needs.


Has anyone ever heard of these? To me it's like uncovering a secret part of history nobody was supposed to know about, because the knowledge of their being a Yamaha german style Bass Trombone might make some people's heads explode. Better yet, if anyone has ever honked around on one of these untameable beasts, I'd love to know how they played.


Have I uncovered something that was supposed to be long forgotten..?

Yamaha makes (made?) German-style trombones, horns, and trumpets for a while beginning in the early 90’s. The German trombones never really caught on here in the US. The Vienna-style horns were quite popular for a while in Europe, and were even used by several members of the Vienna Philharmonic.

I played a few notes on one of these basses in the early 2000’s. It didn’t feel terribly “German” to me.

The YBL-605 German-style bass disappeared from the catalogue around late 2000s. 10” gold brass bell with kranz, gold brass valve tubings, nickel silver dual bore slide.

Schmitt Music has a review video here https://youtu.be/8V1V6hGoMk8?si=9fz8Alf6BayuVIhe

It stayed on the catalogue for quite a few years, and I have seen 1 or 2 popped up on Japan Yahoo Auction site. I would love to try one, but I am not sure I would like it.

Yup, I remember that being in the catalogue, as well as the 60B mouthpiece made for it.

I assume they made like, 7 of them total because I've never seen one sell in the US.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 11:35 pm...as well as the 60B mouthpiece made for it.

Got one of those; thought it might be a good match for an Olds S-20. It wasn't (at least not for me).

60B is still produced. I got one. Quite a strange piece but works quite well when I want to cheat for high range.

Blew one years ago at an ITF. It was very very nice to blow. Who knows how it would work in the orchestra?

They were well documented, in that they were part of the catalog and on all the Yamaha website when they were offered. The bell is 10", the bore is. 547-.563. The tenor (YSL-603) has an 8.8" bell with a .512-.535 bore. There were also earlier versions of this, Ybl 601 (single) and 603 (indie), complete with snakes and all. What I suspect happened is that these models came out of the custom shop, like the Viennese horns and oboes, where they might have gotten just a few custom orders, and for a period they decided to advertise them and try to make them into regular model. I'm sure one can still order it custom-made even if it's no longer advertised.

I know someone in Montreal who plays the 605, have played a lot with him and I've tried the horn too. It's been several years but as far as I recall, to me it felt like much more like a hybrid than a true German trombone, and still had the core characteristics I would recognize from other Yamaha trombones. It was fairly heavy for an instrument trying to be German. I've played with him both in a section of modern, American trombones, and for one project using German trombones. His instrument worked for both, but I think worked better in the non-German section. Could be mouthpiece related - clearly it's designed to function well with the standard modern mouthpieces, which is typically not the case with traditional German instruments.

blast wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:27 am Blew one years ago at an ITF. It was very very nice to blow. Who knows how it would work in the orchestra?

It worked quite well. I think they should have advertised it not in a separate "German trombone" category, but rather put it in the main bass trombone line, and described it as a German-inspired orchestral bass. It might have had more success that way, because I think it would work great at the bottom of a section on romantic repertoire, especially when alto is used. It can be plenty powerful and big when loud, but it had this very nice ring and warmth and lightness in the registers and dynamic range where too many bass trombonists tend to sound dull.

I definitely remember them being visible online during the early 2000s on the USA catalog. I however have never seen one "in the flesh". I have seen more Japanese exclusive custom horns than I have their German line. Of course, I have also very seldom seen a German style trombone in the US.

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 3:07 am
It's been several years but as far as I recall, to me it felt like much more like a hybrid than a true German trombone, and still had the core characteristics I would recognize from other Yamaha trombones. It was fairly heavy for an instrument trying to be German.

This was my impression from my brief play-test. A horn that was trying to both fish and fowl, but was really something else entirely.

In theory, it seems like the same idea as the Markus Leuchter bass trombone - somewhere in between a modern American horn and a traditional German horn.

Or the B&S Meistersinger.

Most German makers these days make mostly hybrid models.

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 1:44 pm Most German makers these days make mostly hybrid models.

Are those hybrids intended as dual-purpose instruments, or are they intended to be essentially "German" but with certain modern design features?

JohnL wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:07 pm

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 1:44 pm Most German makers these days make mostly hybrid models.

Are those hybrids intended as dual-purpose instruments, or are they intended to be essentially "German" but with certain modern design features?

I'm not the most well placed to ask because I don't play modern trombones anymore, but my impression and understanding is that it varies between makers, some are in the vein of "German design incorporating elements of the American style", but I think many if not most are more "American/standard-style instruments that retain some of the character and design elements of traditional German instruments in a fully modern concept". In any case, unless you specifically want and request a true traditional style instrument, what they make is modern trombones.

I seem to remember Sam Burtis having one back in the day…. Maybe even still Trombone -L days. Don’t think he kept it long, but a handful came in through one of the New York retailers and got passed around until they were kept by somebody, no idea who.

Maybe the way back machine would have some reviews.

Cheers,
Andy

The YBL-605. Playing one tonight on Mahler. I also have the 603 tenor. Both play more like hybrids than true German trombones, such as a Kruspe. Don't get me wrong, they play beautifully and sound very good with nice warm timbres.

I own a 603 tenor...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cy1GzJHTmTv6gNii6

greenbean wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 1:15 am I own a 603 tenor...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cy1GzJHTmTv6gNii6

That's awesome! The linkage is pretty slick.

snieckarz wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 7:41 pm The YBL-605. Playing one tonight on Mahler. I also have the 603 tenor. Both play more like hybrids than true German trombones, such as a Kruspe. Don't get me wrong, they play beautifully and sound very good with nice warm timbres.

Who makes that thumb rest?
EZ

JohnL wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:07 pm

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 1:44 pm Most German makers these days make mostly hybrid models.

Are those hybrids intended as dual-purpose instruments, or are they intended to be essentially "German" but with certain modern design features?

They are intended to be regular, German bass trombones. Over the years German makers noticed that a good number of new customers loved the German trombone sound concept but had a hard time getting used to handling it, so over time they tried to keep the key components German, but tried to establish a more modern trombone feel at the same time.

I think that was a success overall as a good number of players switched back to German horns, especially Kromat and Throja. Old school players don't always approve, I think. But it certainly put the German trombone a bit more back on the market in German orchestras.

In regards to the German Yamaha, I have never heard of anyone in Germany actually use it.

snieckarz wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 7:41 pm The YBL-605. Playing one tonight on Mahler.

Steve,

Good luck with the Mahler. Playing principal trombone on Mahler 5 with a fine orchestra was the highlight of my performing career.