TromboneChat

Hello!

I'm a long time lurker on here, and am now making my first post!

I am currently a freshmen in college and have recently discovered the advantages of wet playing.
I used to prefer not to lick my lips before playing as I know the acid in saliva can actually dry out the lips and I already struggle with dry lips as is. But as I get deeper into marching band season the toll of dry playing began taking its toll on my chops to the point where I have a pretty noticable callus on my bottom lip. I decided to experiment with wetting my lips to try and prevent friction between my lip and the mouthpiece and hopefully reduce the toll of marching band, ensembles, and practice on my chops. It worked suprisingly well. I still am not too comfortable wetting my lips by licking them and have found that taking a sip of water and carefully spreading that water on the lips with the tongue to be much more effective. It took a bit of getting used to, but I now find wet playing to be much easier on the lips.

I am curious what others have experienced with wet vs dry playing and if there are long-term drawbacks to either. I'd love to hear what you guys think!

Thanks,
Angel R-V

Either one of those words, seem to me, bad for playing. I would suggest some natural lip balm. Slightly moist is a good middle ground for me, or else mechanics suffer greatly.

norbie2018 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 1:57 pm viewtopic.php?t=14133

This was really helpful, thanks!

trombonedemon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:23 pm Either one of those words, seem to me, bad for playing. I would suggest some natural lip balm. Slightly moist is a good middle ground for me, or else mechanics suffer greatly.

I did and still use Burt's Bees (it's the best for my lips I've tried yet) to try and keep my lips healthy, but I would still have terrible friction between the piece and my face. Wetting them with water, not to the point their soaking, and using lip balm has been more effective for me.

There's nothing inherently wrong with either, but it depends on the player and over time what is best might change. Back when I was a student and before I got interested in brass embouchure technique I didn't think about this much at all. I assumed that I was playing wet, but in retrospect I don't really think that it was closer to dry. Developing small calluses on my lips from time to time was common back then, probably because I would frequently twist up my lips a bit with the mouthpiece rim while playing.

When I changed my embouchure to a "low placement" type (Reinhardt type IVA specifically) I found that I needed to play with at least my top lip dry because it was too slippery to play wet and I would allow the upper lip to slip up out of the mouthpiece. Over time, I found a much more secure low placement and developed the playing mechanics that the rim slipping around no longer was an issue, so I've since changed to playing with a wet embouchure.

Overall, I would say that if you can play with a wet embouchure that it has certain advantages in the long term.

As far as lip balm goes, "natural" is not necessarily better. I can't put my hands on it right now, but a grad student about 20 years ago wrote a paper where he interviewed brass players and dermatologists to find out what lip balm is best. I don't recall exactly what came out on top, but many "natural" lip balms don't do so well (based on my faulty memory). There are certain ingredients to avoid (camphor and menthol come to mind). I'll see if I can find the paper, but it was a long time ago and maybe there's something new that's come out since.

I try not to use anything on my lips, if I can, but when my lips start getting chapped I usually use A&D Ointment on them. If you've had kids, the odor might make you think of dirty diapers (one of the most common uses for A&D Ointment is diaper rash), but it does a pretty good job with chapped lips and I also find it fairly easy to apply some to my lips and then play right away.

Dave

Burt's Bees classic yellow tube. Next slide

Yeah, Burt's is OK and doesn't seem to have any of the ingredients that I understand you want to avoid. If it does the job for you, go for it. But if it's not doing the trick, you might want to look for something else. Petroleum jelly is not considered "natural," but it's listed as something good for chapped lips. Sometimes "natural" products don't work as well as something synthetic, there's nothing magical or better about being "natural."

Thanks all for the input! I'll look into trying different balms, see if anything changes. A trumpet friend recommended Blistex Lip Medex, haven't tried it yet but he speaks wonders of it. I'll keep experimenting with wet playing as for me it just feels way easier on the lips than the dry playing I was doing earlier.

On the subject of lip balm, I really like Burts Bees Silver/Grey "ultra conditioning".
It's great in between playing as the moisture feels longer lasting and deeper.

If you want to play with lip balm, it's maybe too slippery for most, but I found playing with a little bit on was great for outdoor gigs, especially in dry climates.
It felt to mee the least tacky lip balm. But not great if you want to maintain some amount if grip

Something Bill Watrous told me in 1978: "When you're paying an outdoor gig in Virginia in the summer, under a tent, you'd better be able to play on a wet embouchure."

Carry a small tube of ordinary (no additives) Vaseline in your kit with the slide cream and water spray. A very light coating allows the mouthpiece to MOVE (not "slip") on your lips so that you always have it in the correct (for you) position rather than having it "stick" in an awkward place.

dershem wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 10:48 am Something Bill Watrous told me in 1978: "When you're paying an outdoor gig in Virginia in the summer, under a tent, you'd better be able to play on a wet embouchure."

Speaking as a person who lives in Virginia:

He ain't wrong....

My first instructor in the Navy school of music was an army guy by the name of John Montgomery. John played lead in the JA,'s, a formidable big band at the least. All monster players. John would smear Vaseline on his chops and he had watrous type of agility. I could never figure how he kept the horn on his face without slipping.