TromboneChat

Hello, there was "healthy trombonist" sub-forum on TTF, couldnt find smth similar here, so I'll ask here.
I have some problems with two teeth on upper jaw - the one is "going inside" (? can't discribe this more accurate).
I am aware this is happening because of mouthpiece pressure. Yes, I do use some pressure above but not too much. I asked some mates and they said different statements. The most common is "man, this is your wisdom tooth growing and pushing all your teeth, don't think about it". But more I think about pressure theory the more I can't stop thinking about it.
So I want to ask - is it a common trouble to all brass players when their mouthpiece can deform thier bite?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AKpt7z ... sp=sharing

I took a photo of this problem - the blue line is how it was in ~2007 the red one is how it is in 2022

Sorry to hear about that. I've read that it's possible for wind musicians to have their teeth shifted because of pressure and my dental hygienist once mentioned a clarinet and sax player that she was working with who seemed to have some issues. That said, I imagine that it's fairly rare and more likely that it's the normal shifting of your teeth over time, but I don't really know. Check with your dentist at your next visit.

Does your mouthpiece placement put the rim over that tooth? If you're using excessive mouthpiece pressure enough to shift your teeth you might try catching a lesson with someone who can watch you play and see if there's something you're doing or not doing that is causing the pressure.

Again, I think it's best if you consult with a dentist. As a rule, trombonists are not qualified to offer dental advice - me included!

Dave

Hey OP, do you do any practicing in front of a mirror? This might help you correct some things on your own, as well as Dave's suggestion of consulting a dentist.

Consult your dentist, then have a lesson with Doug Elliott

It's odd that if it's from the mouthpiece pressure that it's only pushing one tooth in.

I'm doubtful that a dentist will have an authoritative answer on whether the trombone is the problem since the research on this subject rather lacking. It's not something they spent years studying in dentist school.

A review of the available research had only this modest conclusion...

Playing a wind instrument can influence tooth position and facial morphology in both children and adults. Aspects that stand out are overjet, arch width, facial divergence/convergence and lip thickness. However, evidence was sparse and the strength of the premise emerging from this review was graded to be “very low”.

But it doesn't really matter whether the trombone is causing it.

You're not going to stop playing the trombone either way and and you have the out-of-place-tooth that bothers you either way, right?

Find an orthodontist to examine you and ascertain if a removable corrector brace like "Invisalign" is applicable. Something you could take off when you practice and have on the rest of the day.

I'm pretty sure I've had this happen as well.

Over the years I’ve developed a significant underbite. But, OTOH, I don’t bite my nails.

I don't think it's the trombone causing that. People's teeth move and shift into all kinds of horrible positions over time and most of them have never played any brass instrument.

Since you're mentioning wisdom teeth coming in, you must be around 18 or so?
Everybody's face is changing in the teen years and beyond, and wisdom teeth are part of it but not all. What actually causes teeth to move is various pressures, from your face structure and muscles, that are there 24 hours a day.
It's pretty common for people to get braces to straighten their teeth and then have to wear a retainer every night because without it, the teeth will go right back to where they were. Facial pressures, not mouthpiece pressure.

Wilktone wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:58 am Does your mouthpiece placement put the rim over that tooth?

Yes it is.

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:46 am It's odd that if it's from the mouthpiece pressure that it's only pushing one tooth in.

Because I press on the right side of my embouchure a little bit more than on left. This is because I play only on small bore 0.500 tromobones and they have a little space between slides and small braces, and I am not a skinny guy. I am really thinking to go to the tech and ask him if he can do an ergonomical gooseneck like on that Jupiter trombone, so I can place mouthpiece correctly and the placemenet will be equal on both two teeth.
Or maybe sell all my 0.500 axes and try to move to the 0.508 or even 0.525 since they will have wider slides. (wycliffe gordon plays the 0.508 yammie, and AFAIK he played a 0.508 king 3b before, so maybe swithching to wider slide bone will help)

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:46 pm Since you're mentioning wisdom teeth coming in, you must be around 18 or so?

I was around 18 in 2007 when i started to mention my tooth going inside. Maybe I really should investigate that all retainer and "invisalign" stuff

Just bend the mouthpice...

I think Doug’s answer is spot on. I had crooked teeth as an adolescent—a genetic gift from my parents. I had braces, then a retainer. To prepare for braces, the dentist removed 4 teeth, the pre-molars, to allow room for the teeth to shift. Once the braces were done, I had a retainer. When that fell out, the teeth started to shift back to their old places.

Like you, one of my lower front incisors has tilted and shifted behind the others. I tried Invisalign several years ago, which helped. I then had the Invisalign retainers/night guards, which eventually broke and insurance wouldn’t replace them. Because of the space between the teeth (where the premolars were), the front four lower incisors have eventually started shifting back into their old position—that is, despite Invisalign.

As of now, I’ve come to accept it for what it is. If it continues to shift, and the it becomes uncomfortable where the rim rests on my lower lip, I might go back to Invisalign for the lower jaw.

Unless you need braces now, I would wait until your wisdom teeth are removed before doing anything.

Before making any significant changes to any horn, I would ask Doug or Dave Wilken for a lesson. Perhaps your optimal mouthpiece placement is in a different place, and won’t affect your lips and teeth as much.

Play left handed for a while. I've done that, when I was trying to help my placement move left where it really needed to be.

Thanks for your answers, got some interesting ideas to start with

This may sound odd, but bring your horn to the dentist the next time you go so they can see what is happening. Your doctor may have some suggestions that will help you.

This sound strange.You can visit any emergency dental care and take an expert advice on this. Talk to them regarding your work and they can advice new methodologies that can help you prevent this from happening again.
https://www.emergency-dental-365.com/

The OPs location says Moscow. Of course that could be Russia, Idaho, or any number of locations, but dental care may be different.

I had a lip abrasion with a lump underneath earlier this year (September) and my doctor made me take 3 weeks off. The outer damage healed in a week, the lump took another 3 weeks to subside, and it is directly over the protruding tooth on my lower jaw, where the mouthpiece pressure hits. (mouthpiece pressure should be on lower lip) My diagnosis was most likely a mucocoele, and they tend to recur with pressure.

I just had my routine followup. The surface abrasion has returned slightly but nothing underneath and it isn't painful. My doctor says he can't feel any cyst so if it was mucocoele it hasn't returned. He says keep it moisturized and don't worry. I'll see if the dentist says the tooth is moving. I think if I were a professional player I'd talk to the dentist about moving or removing that tooth, but I'm an amateur about to hit 70 and it doesn't seem worth the effort.