TromboneChat

Hi. I'm looking for an upper range mouthpiece for my Blessing BTB 88-O F attachment trombone. I realize that these are hard to come by because of the large bore size of the trombone, but I've been looking around a lot because I'd like to have better quality upper range notes. Right now, I use a Denis Wick 5ABL and the tone is great, but it's hard to get a good tone from a high C. Any recommendations including brand names and models would be appreciated. Thanks!

Any of the Griego Alessi series "A" mouthpieces might work, or you might try a Doug Elliott piece with a shallow cup. These are no substitute for practicing though. You should be able to easily play a high C on the mouthpiece you mentioned.

You can easily turn your mouthpiece into a high range mouthpiece with some time in a practice room.

But a shallow cup and tight backbore helps with clarity and push back the point when you start to feel fatigued. I always used 1-1/2G or 3G sized pieces until I just recently got a DE F+ cup.

Quote from: Tboner16 on Nov 11, 2017, 11:02AMHi. I'm looking for an upper range mouthpiece for my Blessing BTB 88-O F attachment trombone. I realize that these are hard to come by because of the large bore size of the trombone, but I've been looking around a lot because I'd like to have better quality upper range notes. Right now, I use a Denis Wick 5ABL and the tone is great, but it's hard to get a good tone from a high C. Any recommendations including brand names and models would be appreciated. Thanks!


If you are looking to sort out high register problems through a gear change then you are doing it wrong.... sorry... That's all there is too it.
Perhaps search for method books and teachers who might help you work towards what you want with the gear you already have. You will achieve a much superior result doing it that way.

Would the Griego Alessi large bore 7A gold plated work for me? I do need to spend a little more time expanding range for more results, but right now I'm 1st trombone in multiple ensembles, and working with grades 6+music, and the notes are pretty extreme.

Gold plating won't do the trick.  It doesn't help range at all.  If you like how it feels, that's OK.

I also agree that a mouthpiece won't fix high range problems.  In general, a smaller/shallower mouthpiece makes it less tiring to play high but you have to be able to play high first.

How high is your range now and what is the music demanding?

Right now I can get up to a D, but can't get anything behind it so it can come out and sound good. The music calls for C's throughout the piece, and has an important part towards the end with a couple D's. My director told me to take it easy until then, unless I can build up the endurance to play the Bb's and C's easily throughout it.

A little shallower mouthpiece would definitely help to center those notes more easily.  The AB cup is not ideal for extended playing in that range.

Quote from: Tboner16 on Nov 11, 2017, 02:00PMRight now I can get up to a D, but can't get anything behind it so it can come out and sound good. The music calls for C's throughout the piece, and has an important part towards the end with a couple D's. My director told me to take it easy until then, unless I can build up the endurance to play the Bb's and C's easily throughout it.

Why do you think a change in mouthpiece will solve your issue? I'm confused as to where this concept comes from....

Don't you think if playing a particular mouthpiece gave you instant high register despite having problems there mechanically, then all players would be advocating and swapping to different size pieces depending on which notes they were playing? They don't really do that, and I think the reason is obvious....

How long have you got in preparation to play this piece you are playing?

Quote from: bigbassbone1 on Nov 11, 2017, 02:22PMWhy do you think a change in mouthpiece will solve your issue? I'm confused as to where this concept comes from....

Don't you think if playing a particular mouthpiece gave you instant high register despite having problems there mechanically, then all players would be advocating and swapping to different size pieces depending on which notes they were playing? They don't really do that, and I think the reason is obvious....

How long have you got in preparation to play this piece you are playing?

We will be performing this in late February/early March.

Quote from: Tboner16 on Nov 11, 2017, 02:27PMWe will be performing this in late February/early March.

That is heaps of time! No problems at all. You didnt answer my other questions, but save your money for the mouthpiece and pay for a couple of lessons and get practical ways to work on this issue. Buy a method book that helps with this if you need to. If you work consistently up to the performance on this issue with good advice, you will improve very quickly.

You can buy a mouthpiece if you really cant help it, but I think you will be amazed at how little its going to help your issue.

Again, what makes you think that a new mouthpiece will fix your technique? I am genuinely curious if its someone telling you that or if its something else.

Quote from: bigbassbone1 on Nov 11, 2017, 02:35PMThat is heaps of time! No problems at all. You didnt answer my other questions, but save your money for the mouthpiece and pay for a couple of lessons and get practical ways to work on this issue. Buy a method book that helps with this if you need to. If you work consistently up to the performance on this issue with good advice, you will improve very quickly.

You can buy a mouthpiece if you really cant help it, but I think you will be amazed at how little its going to help your issue.

Again, what makes you think that a new mouthpiece will fix your technique? I am genuinely curious if its someone telling you that or if its something else.

I took a step up from a Bach 6-1/2 AL to the DW, and that helped a lot and I've been playing on it for a while and haven't seen a whole lot of results. I feel that a smaller rim or some kind of size change would help in some way, but it seems that you think otherwise.

Quote from: Tboner16 on Nov 11, 2017, 02:44PMI took a step up from a Bach 6-1/2 AL to the DW, and that helped a lot and I've been playing on it for a while and haven't seen a whole lot of results. I feel that a smaller rim or some kind of size change would help in some way, but it seems that you think otherwise.


I just think it is a dangerous and unproductive mindset to get into that swapping mouthpieces will fix core technique issues. It sounds like you are set on it though, so I hope it works out 

Quote from: bigbassbone1 on Nov 11, 2017, 02:50PM
I just think it is a dangerous and unproductive mindset to get into that swapping mouthpieces will fix core technique issues. It sounds like you are set on it though, so I hope it works out 

I'm just looking for an efficient mouthpiece for upper range support, and hitting higher notes would logically come from the smaller rim size. If you know of techniques used to enhance the upper range, I'm more than interested.

FWIW, a Wick 5ABL is actually LARGER than a Bach 6.5 AL.  I happen to think the Wick mouthpieces are better than Bachs, but that's me.

There are smaller mouthpieces for large shank (we've discussed these ad nauseum in several other threads) but I don't know if that's your problem.  Have you discussed this with a private teacher?  Maybe get a Skype lesson with Doug Elliott?

Quote from: Tboner16 on Nov 11, 2017, 02:55PMI'm just looking for an efficient mouthpiece for upper range support, and hitting higher notes would logically come from the smaller rim size. If you know of techniques used to enhance the upper range, I'm more than interested.

http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,62067.0.html

Quote from: Tboner16 on Nov 11, 2017, 02:55PMI'm just looking for an efficient mouthpiece for upper range support, and hitting higher notes would logically come from the smaller rim size. If you know of techniques used to enhance the upper range, I'm more than interested.

Absolutely. I think the key is consistent practice. Set aside time every day to work on it.

I would start in a comfortable register, lets say middle Bb. Practice slow slurs and articulated passages and exercises with a great sound in that register. When that feels solid, practice the same excercises up a harmomic. Go back to the original register frequently to make sure you are not compromising sound quality. Gradually do the same excersises on each harmonic up as high as you can go.

When you are capable of playing high with a consistent and even quality of sound, practice conecting the registers. Start low, perhaps low Bb. Practice slurring gradually through the harmonic series keeping good airflow and consistent sound. Do the same articulated. When that skill is comfortable, play for extended periods in the upper register. A good way to do this is to take a bordogni study. Practice playing a single phrase in tenor clef and then rest. Do it again at pitch or down an octave again to check on your sound and airflow. Start again but try and go two phrases in tenor clef. Gradually add phrases until you can comfortably play the entire study in tenor clef. This will not happen in one practice session, it will take consistent effort over time.

When that is not an issue, repeat the process but play the study in alto clef. Then treble clef or even just up the octave. Dont only do the study in legato, also practice it articulated.

It is important not to just jump in as high and as long as possible in one go. Some days will be harder than others, but persistent practice with intelligent rest breaks will do wonders for your playing.

You could try brad edwards lip slur book, that gradually takes you over the range. Charlie Vernons book also covers a lot of this stuff but you need to be honest about your capabilities in some of his written studies and only go high and low gradually as you develop.

Hope that helps!

Quote from: bigbassbone1 on Nov 11, 2017, 03:28PMAbsolutely. I think the key is consistent practice. Set aside time every day to work on it.

I would start in a comfortable register, lets say middle Bb. Practice slow slurs and articulated passages and exercises with a great sound in that register. When that feels solid, practice the same excercises up a harmomic. Go back to the original register frequently to make sure you are not compromising sound quality. Gradually do the same excersises on each harmonic up as high as you can go.

When you are capable of playing high with a consistent and even quality of sound, practice conecting the registers. Start low, perhaps low Bb. Practice slurring gradually through the harmonic series keeping good airflow and consistent sound. Do the same articulated. When that skill is comfortable, play for extended periods in the upper register. A good way to do this is to take a bordogni study. Practice playing a single phrase in tenor clef and then rest. Do it again at pitch or down an octave again to check on your sound and airflow. Start again but try and go two phrases in tenor clef. Gradually add phrases until you can comfortably play the entire study in tenor clef. This will not happen in one practice session, it will take consistent effort over time.

When that is not an issue, repeat the process but play the study in alto clef. Then treble clef or even just up the octave. Dont only do the study in legato, also practice it articulated.

It is important not to just jump in as high and as long as possible in one go. Some days will be harder than others, but persistent practice with intelligent rest breaks will do wonders for your playing.

You could try brad edwards lip slur book, that gradually takes you over the range. Charlie Vernons book also covers a lot of this stuff but you need to be honest about your capabilities in some of his written studies and only go high and low gradually as you develop.

Hope that helps!

Thanks!! I'll definitely be looking into and starting these techniques. I appreciate it!

Quote from: BGuttman on Nov 11, 2017, 02:57PMFWIW, a Wick 5ABL is actually LARGER than a Bach 6.5 AL.  I happen to think the Wick mouthpieces are better than Bachs, but that's me.

There are smaller mouthpieces for large shank (we've discussed these ad nauseum in several other threads) but I don't know if that's your problem.  Have you discussed this with a private teacher?  Maybe get a Skype lesson with Doug Elliott?

http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,62067.0.html

What's the best way to get in contact with him? I'm also interested in using his Alto trombone for a piece.

Quote from: Tboner16 on Nov 11, 2017, 03:34PMThanks!! I'll definitely be looking into and starting these techniques. I appreciate it!

No problem. Remember to be patient, it wont happen overnight. You will have plenty of frustrating days where sometimes you will feel as though you are going backwards, but the key to to take a breath and commit to it. Check you are doing everything in the right way frequently and dont force anything. Sometimes, out of frustration you can go too long, or too hard and this will only hurt you. As long as you are working towards your goal in the right way every day you will see improvement. If you start now, you will be in great shape when it comes time for your performance.

Quote from: Tboner16 on Nov 11, 2017, 03:40PMWhat's the best way to get in contact with him? I'm also interested in using his Alto trombone for a piece.

He's a regular poster and also a Moderator on this board.  If you find a post of his it will have e-mail and PM links.  Or click on his name at the top of this Board to get to his Profile.

You can also get to him through his Web site: www.dougelliottmouthpieces.com.

He already sent me a PM and I replied.

He already sent me a PM and I replied.