Value on Kruspe Trombone?

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ttf_anonymous
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_anonymous »

Hoping someone here can point me in the right direction to find information about a family heirloom that needs a new home...

Soon after I got married, my wife's grandfather had an estate sale to clear out the old family farm. While helping to set up the sale, I found an old trombone still in a flaking leather case in a corner of the attic. Being a musician and music teacher, I asked if I could purchase it from the estate. I had a lofty thought that I'd be able to one day put it in a nice display case and show off this really cool old family heirloom!

Well, 18 years and 4 kids later, I realize that this isn't going to happen, and it's better for this instrument to be played, especially since it hasn't been played in approximately 100 years. (According to the family, the gentleman who played it died about 1920.)

After buying it from the sale, I had it cleaned up by a brass tech while I was in graduate school for music. From what I've found out, it's a Kruspe trombone made in Leipzig somewhere between 1910-1915. The bell is paper-thin - when it was cleaned up, you could see the shadow of your hand through the bell...Since then, it's been packed in a cardboard box and stored, handled only once or twice with gloves.

I'm looking for a "fair market value" for the instrument - is there some sort of "blue book" for brass? I know where to find information on wood instruments & woodwinds, but not about brass! I'm hoping someone here can help me out. Are antique brass prices fairly universal, or does it vary from region to region?

Thanks for any assistance you can lend!

I can't seem to attach pictures here, but pictures of the instrument can be found here:  https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10153113315238246&type=1&l=1049836f89

Image

ttf_BGuttman
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_BGuttman »

Sorry about the pictures problem (I put a post in Comments and Suggestions called "I Can't Post Pictures" with some ways around the problem).

Kruspe is a very well regarded German brand.  We have a few folks here who would know about it.  Lovely snakes on the slide crook and back crook (it doesn't really have a tuning slide, does it?).

The instrument is not something you would use for regular playing nowadays.  Symphony musicians would be interested for performances of late Romantic works by German composers.

Can you tell us what the bell diameter is?  Is the slide bore under 1/2"?  (Maybe you can measure it using calipers if you have them).  And is there a name on the mouthpiece?
ttf_Tenore76
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_Tenore76 »

Thank you for the suggestions on posting pictures - will go back and see if I can edit the original post to include pictures!

The snakes and the two-tone brass and engraving on the bell is what really made me think it was something special when I found it. I know it's more of a "niche" instrument - another reason I decided to go ahead and see if I can find it a proper home, since if any of my kids DO end up playing trombone, this would not be what they would start on!

The mouthpiece says "Pryor Model" on it, and the diameter of the bell is approximately 9 inches. Not sure about the bore or the tuning slide (don't have calipers, unfortunately!). I seem to recall that when I had the brass tech clean it up way back when he said something about that the bore was larger than you would expect it to be on the size of the instrument, thus the shank that was attached to the mouthpiece, but don't know more than that. Not sure about a tuning slide. (I'm showing my ignorance of trombone anatomy, I know...) Will see what I can figure out on the bore...
ttf_Blowero
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_Blowero »

The tuning slide is at the end of the handslide (the 9th picture).
ttf_BGuttman
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_BGuttman »

Thanks Brad.  Interesting concept, although probably not very practical.

I would hope our German Trombone experts would chime in with some suggestions and information.
ttf_Horn Builder
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_Horn Builder »

That is a real piece of history from one the "the" top German makers! In GREAT shape too! As to value, that's a trick, since it is a niche type of collectible. It may not sell for "that" much, but if you found 2 players who knew what they were fighting over, it could escalate the price some.

I would "LOVE" to give it a home, but really can't justify the expense at present.

FWIW...
M
ttf_blast
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_blast »

Noah at Brassark has one for sale. Yours looks nice.... has to be worth $1000 or more.
ttf_svenlarsson
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_svenlarsson »

Yes probably more if you find the righ customer. TIS. Nice.
ttf_mr.deacon
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_mr.deacon »

You can always out the horn on consignment with Noah at the Brassark!
ttf_Tenore76
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_Tenore76 »

Thank you for all of your replies so far! A couple of related questions:

1. Is the mouthpiece generally a separate item, like a bow for violin, or should it be included as a package?

2. What about the case? Is there any inherent value in the original case? It's structurally sound, but the leather is flaking...

Obviously, my main goal is to find it a good home, but after someone that I contacted just for research info just after I bought it offered me $250 for it (and pretended that he was offering a grand amount...) I want to know where things stand. I could see letting it go for less than it's objectively worth so that it goes to someone who'll play it and appreciate it, but I want that to be my decision rather than out of ignorance...


ttf_Tenore76
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_Tenore76 »

Quote from: mr.deacon on Jun 17, 2017, 09:57AMYou can always out the horn on consignment with Noah at the Brassark!

I've heard great things about Noah, and might consider that, but he's several states away, and I'm half-hoping I can sell it to someone local so I can hear it played!
ttf_BGuttman
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_BGuttman »

The case has no intrinsic value.  I wouldn't consider that important.

The Pryor Model mouthpiece is not original to the instrument.  Pryor Model mouthpieces were popular in the early part of the 20th Century (I have one labeled "Conn Pryor").  In case you are wondering, Arthur Pryor (for whom the mouthpiece was designed) was a famous trombone soloist and band leader of the period.  Most of us playing nowadays would probably find the Pryor Model mouthpiece to be uncomfortable and almost unplayable.
ttf_oslide
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_oslide »

Quote from: BGuttman on Jun 17, 2017, 10:52AMThe case has no intrinsic value.  I wouldn't consider that important.

Really? A 100-years old rare trombone of a famous maker, and the original case doesn't matter?

ttf_Matt K
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_Matt K »

Quote from: oslide on Jun 18, 2017, 03:16AMReally? A 100-years old rare trombone of a famous maker, and the original case doesn't matter?


Depends on buyer. Especially if it fits in a modern case. Someone interested in it as a historical piece to add to a collection  may well be. But they probably would also not be the type to not buy it if it wasn't included.

The $250 offer probably wasn't unfair if you want to get it sold fast. Otherwise you'll probably have to be a little patient with finding a buyer who both 1) really wants this model 2) has the amount of money you're asking
ttf_SBMaestro
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_SBMaestro »

Most cases and gig bags will not be able to accommodate a German trombone--not only are the German trombone bells often much bigger (which would require a bass trombone case/gig bag), but the hand slide connecting sections are often friction fit, and the connecting tubing is much longer than on American-style trombones.  I'd make an effort to keep the case with that trombone.
ttf_blast
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_blast »

Quote from: Matt K on Jun 18, 2017, 04:07AMDepends on buyer. Especially if it fits in a modern case. Someone interested in it as a historical piece to add to a collection  may well be. But they probably would also not be the type to not buy it if it wasn't included.

The $250 offer probably wasn't unfair if you want to get it sold fast. Otherwise you'll probably have to be a little patient with finding a buyer who both 1) really wants this model 2) has the amount of money you're asking

I would say that was a cheeky offer. I would pay twice that.... a that is cheeky too.
Be prepared to ship to Germany ... I think you would get much more.

Chris Stearn
ttf_Le.Tromboniste
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_Le.Tromboniste »

Quote from: oslide on Jun 18, 2017, 03:16AMReally? A 100-years old rare trombone of a famous maker, and the original case doesn't matter?


Except those cases are not super practical, you end up buying another case to carry it while the old thing gathers dust...
ttf_oslide
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_oslide »

Quote from: Le.Tromboniste on Jun 18, 2017, 03:26PMExcept those cases are not super practical, you end up buying another case to carry it while the old thing gathers dust...

Sure - for someone who buys such a trombone with the intention of regularly playing it, that case is a hindrance. However, a collector of historical instruments will view it differently, I would assume.

ttf_oslide
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Value on Kruspe Trombone?

Post by ttf_oslide »

Quote from: Le.Tromboniste on Jun 18, 2017, 03:26PMExcept those cases are not super practical, you end up buying another case to carry it while the old thing gathers dust...

Sure - for someone who buys such a trombone with the intention of regularly playing it, that case is a hindrance. However, a collector of historical instruments will view it differently, I would assume.

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