Bach 36 slide mod for large shank MP

ttf_TNTBONE · Post by **ttf_TNTBONE** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:10 pm

Has anyone ever modified their Bach 36 slide to accept a large shank mouthpiece? If so, how did you do it? How did it play?? Thanks

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:21 pm

You need to replace the leadpipe. Never did it; I play my Bach 36 with a Wick 4BS and it works great.

Note: the Wick 4AY is a 4AL but on a small shank. I have a colleague who uses a Bach 36 slide in his Bach 42 and uses the Wick 4AY.

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:27 pm

The 36 cork barrel isn't big enough for a large shank. I think it would be major surgery to either use a 42 cork barrel or do a large modification of the 36 cork barrel, and I don't think there's enough diameter there to work with.

ttf_NBee · Post by **ttf_NBee** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:05 pm

I know a guy who had the Shires threads put on his 36. He uses the special Shires pipe that does what you're asking for. Maybe look into that. As far as I know Shires is the only manufacturer to offer this.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:26 pm

There are a few options to you. Shires, Edwards, and Rath all have large shank offerings. I've done a similar project with a medium bore horn and the cork barrel parts are not expensive from Shires. They are also available from other vendors. If I were doing this project, I would get one of the Instrument Innovations threaded collars because they can take both fine and coarse threaded leadpipe. I would get a Shires cork barrel and slide lock ring. THen I'd have my tech remove the leadpipe and insert the inner slide into this cork barrel and then swap out the old cork barrel for the new one.

If you order from Shires, I would recommend ordering the cork barrel part without the brazed brace. I'm not sure if the Bach brace would be bigger or smaller or the same size... but its a lot easier to solder something to it than it is to file down a brazed nickel brace

ttf_Alex McMahon · Post by **ttf_Alex McMahon** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:30 pm

I've been trying to do this for a while. I tried to use a Conn X pipe, but the cork barrel on the Conn 88 slide is wider at the top of the leadpipe and on the Bach 36 it sticks out about 1.5 inches. It would require the Bach cork barrel to be swapped with a Bach 42 cork barrel to accommodate the width of the leadpipe.

I've already swapped the bell-side cork barrel with a 42 so I can use my 36 slide on a 42 bell. I should have swapped the leadpipe side at the same time, but was too impatient to get it back and try it with the bigger bell.

ttf_TNTBONE · Post by **ttf_TNTBONE** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:00 pm

Good feedback. It seems to me that the outside diameter of a Shires .525 pipe, that accepts large shank mouthpieces (I have one), is too large to fit into a Bach inner slide. I have the Shires pipe and just measured the od of the pipe and it is .363mm. Can someone measure the inner diameter of a Bach .525 inner?

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:13 pm

The largest part of the large shank receiver leadpipe should still be the bottom where it sits in the slide. But still probably worth measuring just to doubly make sure.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:21 pm

Quote from: TNTBONE on Jun 05, 2017, 05:00PMI have the Shires pipe and just measured the od of the pipe and it is .363mm.Something wrong with that number. 363mm is about .014".

ttf_TNTBONE · Post by **ttf_TNTBONE** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:32 pm

What's a decimal point among friends???

How about 3.63mm??

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:56 pm

Still not right.

An inner tube for a .547" trombone is around 14 mm ID. How did you make your measurement?

ttf_TNTBONE · Post by **ttf_TNTBONE** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:22 pm

Good grief--note to self.. Check calibration of calipers once every couple of years.. .517 is the od of the pipe..

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:51 pm

Quote from: TNTBONE on Jun 05, 2017, 06:22PMGood grief--note to self.. Check calibration of calipers once every couple of years.. .517 is the od of the pipe..Where are you measuring it? Is it a threaded pipe?

ttf_TNTBONE · Post by **ttf_TNTBONE** » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:15 am

it is a Shires threaded pipe and I am measuring it on the insertion end.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:38 am

If that's true, you may want to see about taking it to a tech to expand (or check if your calipers are correct). It might make a noticeable difference in the way your horn place when its flush with the inside of the inner side.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:50 am

Quote from: TNTBONE on Jun 06, 2017, 04:15AMit is a Shires threaded pipe and I am measuring it on the insertion end.What's the OD up next to the threads?

ttf_TNTBONE · Post by **ttf_TNTBONE** » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:37 pm

OD by the threads is .556

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:53 pm

Quote from: TNTBONE on Jun 06, 2017, 02:37PMOD by the threads is .556Too big to fit into a .525" tube - or even a .547" tube. Either the inner has to be expanded or it has to actually not extend all the way to the threads. Maybe both.

ttf_Blowero · Post by **ttf_Blowero** » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:26 pm

Quote from: Matt K on Jun 05, 2017, 04:26PMIf you order from Shires, I would recommend ordering the cork barrel part without the brazed brace. I'm not sure if the Bach brace would be bigger or smaller or the same size... but its a lot easier to solder something to it than it is to file down a brazed nickel brace

If you get it red hot the braze will melt and it will come off.

ttf_Blowero · Post by **ttf_Blowero** » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:31 pm

.517 is probably not too far off for a .525 bore leadpipe. That's only .008 difference. I have to make my leadpipes .005 smaller than the bore size in order to fit. The best way to determine fit is by feel. If there is resistance when you push it in, it's correct. If it slides in while barely pushing at all, it's a little loose. If it falls in under its own weight, it's really loose.

ttf_Larry Preston Roberson · Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:56 pm

Quote from: Alex McMahon on Jun 05, 2017, 04:30PMI've already swapped the bell-side cork barrel with a 42 so I can use my 36 slide on a 42 bell.
You can accomplish the same thing by swapping a 42 tenon (male end) for the 36 one. But, I'm not sure if the newer 36 slides have the integrated tenon like the newer 42 slides.

Quote from: Alex McMahon on Jun 05, 2017, 04:30PMI should have swapped the leadpipe side at the same time, but was too impatient to get it back and try it with the bigger bell.
Although if you are doing this, it would make sense to swap both cork barrels.

ttf_Larry Preston Roberson · Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:56 pm

Quote from: Alex McMahon on Jun 05, 2017, 04:30PMI've already swapped the bell-side cork barrel with a 42 so I can use my 36 slide on a 42 bell.
You can accomplish the same thing by swapping a 42 tenon (male end) for the 36 one. But, I'm not sure if the newer 36 slides have the integrated tenon like the newer 42 slides.

Quote from: Alex McMahon on Jun 05, 2017, 04:30PMI should have swapped the leadpipe side at the same time, but was too impatient to get it back and try it with the bigger bell.
Although if you are doing this, it would make sense to swap both cork barrels.