TromboneChat

Here's a link to my blog post:

https://andrewmeronek.com/music-tools/a-musing-on-modes/

An exerpt:

QuoteSometimes, I like to use just intonation as a tool to think of how music is constructed in ways that break convention. It’s fun, and it can help us think about music at a deeper level. So, here’s a way to break the convention of how modes can be relative, in the sense that two modes can share all the same notes.

Our major and minor scales typically can be referred to as a set of pitches formed from the 3 primary triads of our desired mode. A major scale includes all the pitches from the major I, IV, and V chords. Put another way, form 3 major triads in which one is a central “reference” or tonic, and the other two get mapped to the bottom or top of that tonic as it is spelled in “root” position. The IV will share it’s top note with the bottom note of the I, and the V will share it’s bottom note with the top note of the I.
Tuning in ensembles is something that we, as trombonists, do notice pretty clearly given the direct way that we can adjust our slide positions to tune compared to other instruments. From my experience, it can be pretty cool and useful to know when the educational conventions we learned in school (like relative modes) work and when they don't work as well as we want them to.

I'm wondering what you all think.

Wow, intersting thoughts. You have spendt time on this ussue. I have spendt lots of time thinking about intonation problems, but I have to think about this before landing.

Quote from: Andrew Meronek on May 29, 2017, 10:38AMHere's a link to my blog post:

https://andrewmeronek.com/music-tools/a-musing-on-modes/

An exerpt:

Tuning in ensembles is something that we, as trombonists, do notice pretty clearly given the direct way that we can adjust our slide positions to tune compared to other instruments. From my experience, it can be pretty cool and useful to know when the educational conventions we learned in school (like relative modes) work and when they don't work as well as we want them to.

I'm wondering what you all think.

I think that those conventions can be fairly well ignored by a slide trombonist or other non-fixed pitch musician like a singer or string player. The act of making music...even the simplest music...is too complex for us to be able to accurately "think" through the various tuning conventions for each note in a performance. Play it where you hear it and use to slide to play that pitch on the center of the horn. End of story.

Except...life is not perfect, and neither are ensembles. Neither are we as individuals as well. I encourage my students to:

1-Tune the horn so 1st position is a little out from the bumpers...including trigger notes.

2-At first consciously (and eventually quite automatically), use the slide in the manner I mentioned above.

and

3-If that doesn't work on a given note (or in a given ensemble), do the following:

   a-Move the slide in the direction that you think would tune things up.

   b-If that doesn't work, try the other direction.

   c-And if that doesn't work? FUGGEDABOUDIT!!! Fishing for pitch in a badly tuned ensemble is useless. Find some steady pitch upon which to center...a keyboard, your own if you are a strong enough player and musician, a good strong individual player (For me, preferably a bass instrument or melody/lead player.) or whatever, and simply go about your business as best as you can do so. Life is too short to waste time obsessing pitch around. That's like trying to sculpt Jello. That goes for time as well. Time is just pitch only much slower. They are both measurements of frequency.

Later...

S.

Well Sam is right, to play in tune is not a theory thing, almost the reverse, lots of players know lots of theory but don´t hear it. Nevertheles, I am crzy enough to be intersted in how the theory work, It has going hthrough lots of changes through the years.

In teaching I would never go into deep theory like this, more like Sams three points witch are exelent.
Interesting is that in 3.a most pupils are sharp in the low range, start to pulling the slide in and get more sharp, so I say start pulling the slide out, the chanse that you are sharp is bigger, if by chane you are flatt you hear it immediently and pull the slide the other direction.

Tuning can be crucial when playing old music in different temperament and different tuning A like 415 430 440 442 466.

But as Sam say. if you do not hear it forget it.

Quote from: svenlarsson on Jun 01, 2017, 06:34AMBut as Sam say. if you do not hear it forget it.

Absolutely. I like thinking about harmony like this because while we don't do equations in our head to try to figure out tuning during a performance, I'm pretty sure our ears are already doing some form of these kinds of math for us already. That is, there is a sense in which this kind of harmonic analysis can be *more* "in tune" with what our ears perceive as how harmony works than traditional harmonic theory based on 12ET.

A lot of traditional music theory ignores why tuning to pure harmonics works. Any good theory really needs to have the potential to help people think about their music and to be able to communicate those thoughts with others, of course. In a similar sense that no one adds up intervals to figure out chord changes in a jazz tune chord by chord while they're on the bandstand, doing so in one's own time as a way to really figure out a song's form can be pretty beneficial. Same with this stuff. At least, I think so. It certainly brings to light why "in tune" for notes can seem to shift around in ways unexpected to a lot of musicians.

Quote from: svenlarsson on Jun 01, 2017, 06:34AMBut as Sam say. if you do not hear it forget it.

Absolutely. I like thinking about harmony like this because while we don't do equations in our head to try to figure out tuning during a performance, I'm pretty sure our ears are already doing some form of these kinds of math for us already. That is, there is a sense in which this kind of harmonic analysis can be *more* "in tune" with what our ears perceive as how harmony works than traditional harmonic theory based on 12ET.

A lot of traditional music theory ignores why tuning to pure harmonics works. Any good theory really needs to have the potential to help people think about their music and to be able to communicate those thoughts with others, of course. In a similar sense that no one adds up intervals to figure out chord changes in a jazz tune chord by chord while they're on the bandstand, doing so in one's own time as a way to really figure out a song's form can be pretty beneficial. Same with this stuff. At least, I think so. It certainly brings to light why "in tune" for notes can seem to shift around in ways unexpected to a lot of musicians.