Lawler trombones
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Lawler trombones
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I just found this site! Thanks. I'd like to catch up with youse guys concerning the Lawler trombones. He has two models; 1 and 2. 500, 508, and 500/508 for the time being.
Model 1 is a bell forward design and the model 2 is a set back bell design similar to the Conn ballroom models.
The model 2 has the same amount of set back as a typical Williams 6; 10.5" from the end of the mouthpiece receiver to the end of the bell.
The model 1 is roughly 11.25" from the end of the mouthpiece receiver to the end of the bell.
There is a model 2 variant in the works that promises to be very exciting. More on that later when he sends me one for testing.
There is another horn in the works too and I will post info about it when I get the okay.
=====
I just found this site! Thanks. I'd like to catch up with youse guys concerning the Lawler trombones. He has two models; 1 and 2. 500, 508, and 500/508 for the time being.
Model 1 is a bell forward design and the model 2 is a set back bell design similar to the Conn ballroom models.
The model 2 has the same amount of set back as a typical Williams 6; 10.5" from the end of the mouthpiece receiver to the end of the bell.
The model 1 is roughly 11.25" from the end of the mouthpiece receiver to the end of the bell.
There is a model 2 variant in the works that promises to be very exciting. More on that later when he sends me one for testing.
There is another horn in the works too and I will post info about it when I get the okay.
=====
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
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Re: Lawler trombones
Great to have you on this site!
ƒƒ---------------------------------------------------ƒƒ
Like trombones? Head over to https://swisstbone.com/ to see some great vintage and custom horns!
Like trombones? Head over to https://swisstbone.com/ to see some great vintage and custom horns!
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Re: Lawler trombones
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
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Re: Lawler trombones
Thanks for the literal info!
I kind of implied that the bell distance on the Model 2 was the same as on a Williams but it's nice to have measurements! You should tell Lawler to add that info to his website!
I kind of implied that the bell distance on the Model 2 was the same as on a Williams but it's nice to have measurements! You should tell Lawler to add that info to his website!
Rath R1 2000s, Elliott XT
Bach 42 1974, Elliott XT
Holton 169 1965, Elliott LB
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott LB
Bach 42 1974, Elliott XT
Holton 169 1965, Elliott LB
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott LB
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Re: Lawler trombones
I have had a Lawler for a bit over a month now. I got the Mod. 1 in red brass with a nickel slide and 7 1/2" bell. I primarily will be using it for playing lead in a big band. I was amazed at how much difference the bell flares made. The 7 1/2" flare gives a great bright sound that I was looking for in a lead horn.
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Re: Lawler trombones
Thanks for the info!
Conn Victor 5H
Yamaha YSL-630
Yamaha YSL-354
Miraphone 186 BBb
Yamaha YSL-630
Yamaha YSL-354
Miraphone 186 BBb
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Re: Lawler trombones
If you email Roy, he will generally respond within a day. He is busy making horns all day, so I think he does his correspondence at night.
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Re: Lawler trombones
TheSheriff wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:28 am ------
I just found this site! Thanks. I'd like to catch up with youse guys concerning the Lawler trombones. He has two models; 1 and 2. 500, 508, and 500/508 for the time being.
Model 1 is a bell forward design and the model 2 is a set back bell design similar to the Conn ballroom models.
The model 2 has the same amount of set back as a typical Williams 6; 10.5" from the end of the mouthpiece receiver to the end of the bell.
The model 1 is roughly 11.25" from the end of the mouthpiece receiver to the end of the bell.
There is a model 2 variant in the works that promises to be very exciting. More on that later when he sends me one for testing.
There is another horn in the works too and I will post info about it when I get the okay.
=====
Hi Sheriff
![Hi :hi:](./images/smilies/hi.gif)
What set up(s) are you currently playing your Lawlers with?
Did you go for the flat bead or the rounded bead on the bell?
Good to see you here!
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Re: Lawler trombones
=====MalecHeermans wrote: ↑Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:36 pmHi Sheriff![]()
What set up(s) are you currently playing your Lawlers with?
Did you go for the flat bead or the rounded bead on the bell?
Good to see you here!
Hi Malec,
My model 1 is .025 red brass stem, red brass tuning slide with yellow brass tuning slide inners, and a nickel neck pipe. I had Roy make the counterweights thin wall instead of the normal thick wall. I did not need or like the extra weight on the back end, and I had him put a thin brass branch guard on the tuning slide bow to add a little bit of weight and protection. And it's very attractive, to boot. The balance is perfect.
My model 2 is .022 red brass stem and all red brass tuning slide, red brass tuning slide inners, and red brass neck pipe. So...all red brass. The balance is superb. I believe all of the model 2's come with a branch guard on the tuning slide bow. Cool.
My hand slide is an all yellow brass .500/.508 dual bore and I use a Kanstul W6 leadpipe.
A note about his red brass; it's not a dark red like some others, and honestly, I don't remember the copper content but it is the sound that grabs me. All of my other horns (Williams, Kanstul) are yellow brass, and while they sound great, especially the Williams, there is something about these red brass Lawler's that really grab my ear. Old school to the max with a ton of character.
Roy's trombones are very special and play every bit as good as the best examples of the finest trombones ever built, and of course, they have their own signature sound and feel. It's a sound and feel that I absolutely love.
I have three different flares and they all have his original signature flat bead. The one I use 95% of the time is an .022 red brass cut to 7.5". It is one sweet flare!
There are a couple more model variants to come, so please stay tuned and most of all, patient. Roy is a one man shop and has become very busy, so any research and development takes time.
I also recommend trying different leadpipes, both his and others, as well as different mouthpieces to find the best balance. If anything, his trombones might be a bit sensitive to leadpipe and mouthpiece selection, and I have found that the more open in feel and blow the leadpipe and mouthpiece are, the better they are suited to a Lawler. Of course, that has been my experience only, so......there ya have it.
Thanks
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Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
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Re: Lawler trombones
Interesting! Does he also make (or doing research ) for a large bore or bass trombone?
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Like trombones? Head over to https://swisstbone.com/ to see some great vintage and custom horns!
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Re: Lawler trombones
TheSheriff, interesting that you found this thread on the day Roy finished building my new trombone!
I received it today. I have not had a chance to play with an ensemble yet but am thoroughly impressed. Beautifully assembled and a big sound. Time has taken a toll on me as I have become an aging, asthmatic trombone player! I now usually play dixieland, combo and big band.
With that said, my setup:
Model 2 .022 Yellow brass stem
Yellow brass tuning slide
7 3/4" .20 Yellow brass flare
8" .022 Red brass flare
.500 Brass slide with a nickel crook
#5 lead pipe - I asked for the #10, but I just noticed a 5 on the lead pipe. The sound is good now. Would the #10 make a big difference? I might just email Roy tomorrow.
I received it today. I have not had a chance to play with an ensemble yet but am thoroughly impressed. Beautifully assembled and a big sound. Time has taken a toll on me as I have become an aging, asthmatic trombone player! I now usually play dixieland, combo and big band.
With that said, my setup:
Model 2 .022 Yellow brass stem
Yellow brass tuning slide
7 3/4" .20 Yellow brass flare
8" .022 Red brass flare
.500 Brass slide with a nickel crook
#5 lead pipe - I asked for the #10, but I just noticed a 5 on the lead pipe. The sound is good now. Would the #10 make a big difference? I might just email Roy tomorrow.
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Re: Lawler trombones
Sherrif two questions!
So both your horns do not have the weighted back brace? Which makes the balance more like a traditional Bach or Williams without a weight on the back. Correct?
You said his red brass isn't as red as other makes of horns... would you compare it closer to a gold brass? I know sometimes the terms for red brass, rose brass, and gold brass become interchangeable with some makers.
That's cool to know he'll do custom mods like that!
Being able to choose specs like that makes me want to sell my Rath and order a Lawler!
So both your horns do not have the weighted back brace? Which makes the balance more like a traditional Bach or Williams without a weight on the back. Correct?
You said his red brass isn't as red as other makes of horns... would you compare it closer to a gold brass? I know sometimes the terms for red brass, rose brass, and gold brass become interchangeable with some makers.
That's cool to know he'll do custom mods like that!
Being able to choose specs like that makes me want to sell my Rath and order a Lawler!
Last edited by mrdeacon on Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rath R1 2000s, Elliott XT
Bach 42 1974, Elliott XT
Holton 169 1965, Elliott LB
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott LB
Bach 42 1974, Elliott XT
Holton 169 1965, Elliott LB
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott LB
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Re: Lawler trombones
Shoot, if he decides to make a bass trombone he can sign me up!cozzagiorgi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:59 pm Interesting! Does he also make (or doing research ) for a large bore or bass trombone?
Rath R1 2000s, Elliott XT
Bach 42 1974, Elliott XT
Holton 169 1965, Elliott LB
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott LB
Bach 42 1974, Elliott XT
Holton 169 1965, Elliott LB
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott LB
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Re: Lawler trombones
======cozzagiorgi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:59 pm Interesting! Does he also make (or doing research ) for a large bore or bass trombone?
There will be no large bore or f-attachment Lawler trombones. The largest bore he will make will be a .525 straight tenor. Bless his creative little heart! Of course, that could change in the future, but I seriously doubt it.
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Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
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Re: Lawler trombones
-------keybone wrote: ↑Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:17 am TheSheriff, interesting that you found this thread on the day Roy finished building my new trombone!
I received it today. I have not had a chance to play with an ensemble yet but am thoroughly impressed. Beautifully assembled and a big sound. Time has taken a toll on me as I have become an aging, asthmatic trombone player! I now usually play dixieland, combo and big band.
With that said, my setup:
Model 2 .022 Yellow brass stem
Yellow brass tuning slide
7 3/4" .20 Yellow brass flare
8" .022 Red brass flare
.500 Brass slide with a nickel crook
#5 lead pipe - I asked for the #10, but I just noticed a 5 on the lead pipe. The sound is good now. Would the #10 make a big difference? I might just email Roy tomorrow.
Congratulations on your new Lawler! The #10 leadpipe will have a more open blow/feel to it.
=====
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
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Re: Lawler trombones
--------mrdeacon wrote: ↑Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:12 am Sherrif two questions!
So both your horns do not have the weighted back brace? Which makes the balance more like a traditional Bach or Williams without a weight on the back. Correct?
You said his red brass isn't as red as other makes of horns... would you compare it closer to a gold brass? I know sometimes the terms for red brass, rose brass, and gold brass become interchangeable with some makers.
That's cool to know he'll do custom mods like that!
Being able to choose specs like that makes me want to sell my Rath and order a Lawler!
Roy is a true custom builder and will discuss a variety of options with you and any thoughts or ideas you may have. My model 1 has thin wall counterweights per my choice, and all model 2's have thin wall counterweights because the heavy wall ones are not needed due to the set-back bell giving better balance right off the bat! And I believe all model 2's come with the thin brass branch guard strip on the tuning slide bow. Perhaps keybone could answer that.
Keybone, does your brand new model 2 have a thin brass branch guard strip on the tuning slide bow?
I honestly do not know how or what to compare Roy's red brass to, as far as other makes/brands. All I know and care about is the SOUND. Oh the sound.......Glorious and character filled. Sorta like me (the character part).
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Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
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Re: Lawler trombones
=====Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:18 pm I have had a Lawler for a bit over a month now. I got the Mod. 1 in red brass with a nickel slide and 7 1/2" bell. I primarily will be using it for playing lead in a big band. I was amazed at how much difference the bell flares made. The 7 1/2" flare gives a great bright sound that I was looking for in a lead horn.
Mike, how are you getting on with your new Lawler?
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Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
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Re: Lawler trombones
I have had a model 2 for about a month now. It has the brass strip/guard on the tuning slide.
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Re: Lawler trombones
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Thanks for the info.
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Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
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Re: Lawler trombones
TheSheriff, another random question... does Lawler draw his own slide tubes?
Rath R1 2000s, Elliott XT
Bach 42 1974, Elliott XT
Holton 169 1965, Elliott LB
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott LB
Bach 42 1974, Elliott XT
Holton 169 1965, Elliott LB
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott LB
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Re: Lawler trombones
=====
That is the only part of his horns that he does not make himself, though he has contemplated doing so which would give him complete and total control over the process. He currently uses two different suppliers depending on needs.
My 500/508 tubes are from one supplier and it is excellent, and my 500 that he built for my Williams 6 is from the other supplier, and it is excellent too.
Roy is very particular about slide tubes and I know for a fact that he has had lengthy conversations with both suppliers concerning quality and consistency. He's not afraid to send slide tubes back to the supplier if they are not up to his standards.
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Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
- MalecHeermans
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Re: Lawler trombones
That's all great info Sheriff - thanks for taking the time to post all that info.
I'm in the process of ordering some components now and will update when I get some stuff to try.
I'm in the process of ordering some components now and will update when I get some stuff to try.
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Re: Lawler trombones
Loving it. But I still can't play a double high B flat.TheSheriff wrote: ↑Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:52 pm=====Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:18 pm I have had a Lawler for a bit over a month now. I got the Mod. 1 in red brass with a nickel slide and 7 1/2" bell. I primarily will be using it for playing lead in a big band. I was amazed at how much difference the bell flares made. The 7 1/2" flare gives a great bright sound that I was looking for in a lead horn.
Mike, how are you getting on with your new Lawler?
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I got it just before my big band shut down for the summer, so I only had one chance to play it with them. I have been practicing with it quite a bit though. The slide is great. I may get a 7 3/4 or 8" flare for when I need a little bit warmer sound. But then again, I have a 3B for that, so who knows?
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Re: Lawler trombones
=====MalecHeermans wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:02 am That's all great info Sheriff - thanks for taking the time to post all that info.
I'm in the process of ordering some components now and will update when I get some stuff to try.
Yeah, keep us posted.
=====
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
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Re: Lawler trombones
=======Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:51 pmLoving it. But I still can't play a double high B flat.TheSheriff wrote: ↑Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:52 pm =====
Mike, how are you getting on with your new Lawler?
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I got it just before my big band shut down for the summer, so I only had one chance to play it with them. I have been practicing with it quite a bit though. The slide is great. I may get a 7 3/4 or 8" flare for when I need a little bit warmer sound. But then again, I have a 3B for that, so who knows?
Good stuff. Double Bb..... It must be the horn....
=======
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
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Re: Lawler trombones
The horn or the mouthpiece. Can't be the chops.TheSheriff wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:03 pm=======Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:51 pm Loving it. But I still can't play a double high B flat.
I got it just before my big band shut down for the summer, so I only had one chance to play it with them. I have been practicing with it quite a bit though. The slide is great. I may get a 7 3/4 or 8" flare for when I need a little bit warmer sound. But then again, I have a 3B for that, so who knows?
Good stuff. Double Bb..... It must be the horn....
=======
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Re: Lawler trombones
======Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:56 pmThe horn or the mouthpiece. Can't be the chops.TheSheriff wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:03 pm =======
Good stuff. Double Bb..... It must be the horn....
=======
It's been years since I could paste a double Bb. There was a time I could do it on demand. But now, eh, what's the point. I think it was Sam Burtis that said "playing really high on the trombone is like being the worlds tallest midget". Or something to that effect.
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Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
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Re: Lawler trombones
I would be happy to have a reliable high F. I can play it, but not as reliably as I would like.
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Re: Lawler trombones
My high F is reliable about 70% of the time.Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:14 am I would be happy to have a reliable high F. I can play it, but not as reliably as I would like.
![Big Grin! :biggrin:](./images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
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Re: Lawler trombones
Thanks for the posts. Great to hear about the Lawler horns. I see you own the Kanstul 1606. What do you think of it?TheSheriff wrote: ↑Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:07 pm=====MalecHeermans wrote: ↑Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:36 pm Hi Sheriff![]()
What set up(s) are you currently playing your Lawlers with?
Did you go for the flat bead or the rounded bead on the bell?
Good to see you here!
Hi Malec,
My model 1 is .025 red brass stem, red brass tuning slide with yellow brass tuning slide inners, and a nickel neck pipe. I had Roy make the counterweights thin wall instead of the normal thick wall. I did not need or like the extra weight on the back end, and I had him put a thin brass branch guard on the tuning slide bow to add a little bit of weight and protection. And it's very attractive, to boot. The balance is perfect.
My model 2 is .022 red brass stem and all red brass tuning slide, red brass tuning slide inners, and red brass neck pipe. So...all red brass. The balance is superb. I believe all of the model 2's come with a branch guard on the tuning slide bow. Cool.
My hand slide is an all yellow brass .500/.508 dual bore and I use a Kanstul W6 leadpipe.
A note about his red brass; it's not a dark red like some others, and honestly, I don't remember the copper content but it is the sound that grabs me. All of my other horns (Williams, Kanstul) are yellow brass, and while they sound great, especially the Williams, there is something about these red brass Lawler's that really grab my ear. Old school to the max with a ton of character.
Roy's trombones are very special and play every bit as good as the best examples of the finest trombones ever built, and of course, they have their own signature sound and feel. It's a sound and feel that I absolutely love.
I have three different flares and they all have his original signature flat bead. The one I use 95% of the time is an .022 red brass cut to 7.5". It is one sweet flare!
There are a couple more model variants to come, so please stay tuned and most of all, patient. Roy is a one man shop and has become very busy, so any research and development takes time.
I also recommend trying different leadpipes, both his and others, as well as different mouthpieces to find the best balance. If anything, his trombones might be a bit sensitive to leadpipe and mouthpiece selection, and I have found that the more open in feel and blow the leadpipe and mouthpiece are, the better they are suited to a Lawler. Of course, that has been my experience only, so......there ya have it.
Thanks
------
Conn Victor 5H
Yamaha YSL-630
Yamaha YSL-354
Miraphone 186 BBb
Yamaha YSL-630
Yamaha YSL-354
Miraphone 186 BBb
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Re: Lawler trombones
Material question, has Roy ever done or considered nickle / nickle plated bells?
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Re: Lawler trombones
------
[/quote]
Thanks for the posts. Great to hear about the Lawler horns. I see you own the Kanstul 1606. What do you think of it?
[/quote]
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I like my Kanstul 1606 just fine. It is the prototype and is the best example of a 1606 I have ever played. It has a heavier nickel slide than the production models and uses the slide to bell connector from the model 750 instead of the Williams style connector of the production models.
I rarely play it anymore as I generally prefer playing my Lawler's and Williams'. I'm contemplating selling the 1606.
======
[/quote]
Thanks for the posts. Great to hear about the Lawler horns. I see you own the Kanstul 1606. What do you think of it?
[/quote]
--------
I like my Kanstul 1606 just fine. It is the prototype and is the best example of a 1606 I have ever played. It has a heavier nickel slide than the production models and uses the slide to bell connector from the model 750 instead of the Williams style connector of the production models.
I rarely play it anymore as I generally prefer playing my Lawler's and Williams'. I'm contemplating selling the 1606.
======
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
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Re: Lawler trombones
--------Jimkinkella wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:45 pm Material question, has Roy ever done or considered nickle / nickle plated bells?
Years ago when Roy was making his Herb Bruce design trombones he did nickel flares. I had one but did not like it as much as a 490 all brass horn that he built me. That little 490 Lawler was a sweet horn and I never should have sold it.
I do not think he has any interest in nickel stems or flares. I can't say as I blame him, because it is not a popular material for a trombone. You could call or email him to ask.
Speaking of a 490. Is there any interest out there for a sub 500 bore Lawler?
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Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
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Re: Lawler trombones
Next week marks two years of owning a Lawler for me. It's probably one of the best investments I have made regarding a horn.
- MalecHeermans
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Re: Lawler trombones
He talks about his material philosophy on the website:TheSheriff wrote: ↑Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:58 amI do not think he has any interest in nickel stems or flares. I can't say as I blame him, because it is not a popular material for a trombone. You could call or email him to ask.Jimkinkella wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:45 pm Material question, has Roy ever done or considered nickle / nickle plated bells?
"My thoughts on alloy.
I think when you have a trombone made out of all brass (no nickel) you get a more fluid and even feel from bottom to top registers.
I like brass!"
Nickel is fickle (!) in design. I have a nickel tuning slide, in addition to the standard brass tuning slide, for my Shires and it REALLY shakes things up, particularly on my "smaller" set-up. So much so that I don't use it with that set-up ever. There is a little gain in clarity and attack, but I lose a lot of color with it on the small bell without the valve. I keep it hooked up on my bigger bell with the valve, mostly for practicing at home but also for the occasional orchestral gig where color is not at a premium.
So... I ordered a Model 1 stem in .022, a .500 and a .508 slide (I will probably only keep one), and a 7.75" bell in .022 and a 8" bell in .020. All yellow brass. Oh and I went for rounded beads purely for aesthetics.
The concept is that the smaller bell will be a heavier hitting bright flare to use in big bands and/or when acoustic projection is necessary. The bigger (and lighter) bell will be for recording sessions and/or situations when I want sizzle with a little less effort.
I'm pretty excited. I love the design, I love the idea of a screw bell, I am a fan of the sound and concept of many of the intrepid bonists who have taken the plunge already, and Roy is just great.
I'm playing a Hammond 13ML as my main all rounder these days, but I have a 14M on the way to try with this set up for those moments when you have to have that smaller rim vintage vibe.
I will keep you all posted.
What is everyone using for cases? I'm so happy with my Bonna regular tenor case I've been eyeing this guy:
http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/j ... able-bell/
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- Posts: 872
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Re: Lawler trombones
Roy threw in one of his single flare gig bags with my horn. It is very light and compact, but doesn't have room for much of anything other than the horn - like not even a place to put your mouthpiece. I haven't used it, but I could see where it would com in handy for an airplane, as long as you don't have to check it. I just use a regular gig bag.
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- Location: Deep in the Ozarks of Missouri
Re: Lawler trombones
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Nice to hear!
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Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
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- Location: Deep in the Ozarks of Missouri
Re: Lawler trombones
=======MalecHeermans wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:37 pmHe talks about his material philosophy on the website:TheSheriff wrote: ↑Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:58 am I do not think he has any interest in nickel stems or flares. I can't say as I blame him, because it is not a popular material for a trombone. You could call or email him to ask.
"My thoughts on alloy.
I think when you have a trombone made out of all brass (no nickel) you get a more fluid and even feel from bottom to top registers.
I like brass!"
Nickel is fickle (!) in design. I have a nickel tuning slide, in addition to the standard brass tuning slide, for my Shires and it REALLY shakes things up, particularly on my "smaller" set-up. So much so that I don't use it with that set-up ever. There is a little gain in clarity and attack, but I lose a lot of color with it on the small bell without the valve. I keep it hooked up on my bigger bell with the valve, mostly for practicing at home but also for the occasional orchestral gig where color is not at a premium.
So... I ordered a Model 1 stem in .022, a .500 and a .508 slide (I will probably only keep one), and a 7.75" bell in .022 and a 8" bell in .020. All yellow brass. Oh and I went for rounded beads purely for aesthetics.
The concept is that the smaller bell will be a heavier hitting bright flare to use in big bands and/or when acoustic projection is necessary. The bigger (and lighter) bell will be for recording sessions and/or situations when I want sizzle with a little less effort.
I'm pretty excited. I love the design, I love the idea of a screw bell, I am a fan of the sound and concept of many of the intrepid bonists who have taken the plunge already, and Roy is just great.
I'm playing a Hammond 13ML as my main all rounder these days, but I have a 14M on the way to try with this set up for those moments when you have to have that smaller rim vintage vibe.
I will keep you all posted.
What is everyone using for cases? I'm so happy with my Bonna regular tenor case I've been eyeing this guy:
http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/j ... able-bell/
Very nice! Please let us know what you think of it when you get it and after you've put it through its paces.
Regarding cases, I use hard cases only, and that MB detachable bell case looks great. Soft cases keep repairmen busy.
Which leadpipe did you order, and do you have other leadpipes to try too?
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Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
- dembones
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:12 am
Re: Lawler trombones
Love my Lawlers!MalecHeermans wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:37 pm
What is everyone using for cases? I'm so happy with my Bonna regular tenor case I've been eyeing this guy:
http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/j ... able-bell/
This case looks great - does anyone know where you can buy one? I can't find it at any of the online retailers.
Thanks!
Don Mikkelsen
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Re: Lawler trombones
Hickeys has them, but they are pretty pricey - $550.
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- Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:04 pm
- Location: Los Angeles
Re: Lawler trombones
I love Lawler trombones. I ended up selling my original one after I bought a Williams and didn’t have as many touring gigs, but may order a Model 2, bell closer to face, but lighter weight than my early Lawler horn when my next tour comes up. I have a zip up pouch I received on a flight on emirates. I used to keep my mouthpiece, slide oil, phone charger, etc in that and put it inside the bell flare of the small gig bag. Never a dent. I’d usually fit a t shirt or an extra piece of clothing to pad it. Put it overhead and as careful to not let anyone crush it. Also would fit perfectly in front of two carry on bags, so put mine in next to someone else’s suitcase, horn in front, shut the bin, no problem!
- MalecHeermans
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Re: Lawler trombones
TheSheriff wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:17 am
Very nice! Please let us know what you think of it when you get it and after you've put it through its paces.
Regarding cases, I use hard cases only, and that MB detachable bell case looks great. Soft cases keep repairmen busy.
Which leadpipe did you order, and do you have other leadpipes to try too?
=======
Very much looking forward to checking this horn out.
Hard cases are the only option for me as I frequently test their robustness.
I haven't gotten into a discussion about leadpipes with Roy yet. I really liked the Kanstul H8 on the Yamaha 891Z I had, so if I can't find something I like with him I will probably start there (or H6 if I go for the .500 slide.)
I think Hornguys is probably your best bet. They seem to have a good relationship with Bonna and I'm sure you can call them to get one of these on the next shipment.
As soon as I had posted about that case they changed the website so the regular screwball case that fits an orchestral tenor (which I didn't like as much design-wise) has been changed significantly to be more like a Chronkite two piece. Check it out here:
http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/t ... bell-mb-2/
Very cool, but not what I'm looking for. So I think I'll go for the small tenor screw bell case.
But you're going to pay that for a nice gig bag. If you do this for your daily bread you shouldn't bat an eyelash at $550. Peace of mind and comfort alone are worth the price. Same with instruments, but that's another thread.
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- Location: Los Angeles, California
Re: Lawler trombones
MalecHeermans, the old style screwbell case is still listed on the bonna website. Hornguys also has the old style screw bell case listed on their website still. I think you just got thing mixed up...
https://www.hornguys.com/collections/tr ... screw-bell
http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/t ... able-bell/
https://www.hornguys.com/collections/tr ... screw-bell
http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/t ... able-bell/
Rath R1 2000s, Elliott XT
Bach 42 1974, Elliott XT
Holton 169 1965, Elliott LB
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott LB
Bach 42 1974, Elliott XT
Holton 169 1965, Elliott LB
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott LB
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Re: Lawler trombones
----------MalecHeermans wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:57 pmTheSheriff wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:17 am
Very nice! Please let us know what you think of it when you get it and after you've put it through its paces.
Regarding cases, I use hard cases only, and that MB detachable bell case looks great. Soft cases keep repairmen busy.
Which leadpipe did you order, and do you have other leadpipes to try too?
=======
Very much looking forward to checking this horn out.
Hard cases are the only option for me as I frequently test their robustness.
I haven't gotten into a discussion about leadpipes with Roy yet. I really liked the Kanstul H8 on the Yamaha 891Z I had, so if I can't find something I like with him I will probably start there (or H6 if I go for the .500 slide.)
If you can get your hands on a Kanstul W6 I highly recommend it. Good luck!
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Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
- dembones
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:12 am
Re: Lawler trombones
The new "Jazz Trombone Case with Detachable Bell" case is on the MB site here:mrdeacon wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:07 pm MalecHeermans, the old style screwbell case is still listed on the bonna website. Hornguys also has the old style screw bell case listed on their website still. I think you just got thing mixed up...
https://www.hornguys.com/collections/tr ... screw-bell
http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/t ... able-bell/
http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/j ... able-bell/
I put an order in at Horn Guys for their next batch from MB. It's not on the Horn Guys website but they know about it and can order it.
Don Mikkelsen
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- Location: Deep in the Ozarks of Missouri
Re: Lawler trombones
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Update! The Lawler model 3 is in my hands and it is a winner. The model 3 is a variation of the model 2. The model 3 is a set back bell design just like the model 2, but the model 3 has a j-bend tuning slide. This means that the small (neck pipe) side, straight leg portion of the tuning slide, has been moved all the way down to just above the bell to slide receiver/connector.
Envision a candy cane. Moving the (small side) straight leg portion of the tuning slide down to just above the receiver allows for a longer run of uninterrupted continuous taper. There is only one tuning slide cross brace and it is solid brass instead of hollow. The connecting ferrules that the cross brace is brazed to are heavy weight, and the bend has a small protective brass strip. The balance is excellent.
The main bell brace is the same diameter as the model 1 and model 2, but it is made from a heavier wall brass, which was necessary for structural stability. One must exercise just a little bit of care and caution when removing or re-installing the candy cane looking tuning slide, but it is not a big deal. It should be done while holding the bell section across your lap and not attached to the hand slide. You would only need to do this once in a while for cleaning and lubing. Adjusting the tuning slide on the fly while the horn is fully assembled is no biggie, simply reach up to the tuning slide cross brace and make your adjustment.
Now for the blow. It is a more open blow somewhat reminiscent of my Williams model 6, but with the immediacy of sound and core of a Lawler. For me, that is a big WOW! From ppp to fff it is a thing of amazement. Very fluid and very even from top to bottom.
I had Roy make mine in all red brass. The stem is .022 and the j-bend and tuning slide inners are red brass too. With my .022 red brass 7 1/2" flare it is an absolute beast. My hand slide is an all yellow brass .500/.508 dual bore and I use a Kanstul W6 leadpipe. My mouthpiece is a Hammond custom that is similar to a Stork T2.
When Roy gets a chance he will be putting up info and photos of the model 3 on his website.
=====
Update! The Lawler model 3 is in my hands and it is a winner. The model 3 is a variation of the model 2. The model 3 is a set back bell design just like the model 2, but the model 3 has a j-bend tuning slide. This means that the small (neck pipe) side, straight leg portion of the tuning slide, has been moved all the way down to just above the bell to slide receiver/connector.
Envision a candy cane. Moving the (small side) straight leg portion of the tuning slide down to just above the receiver allows for a longer run of uninterrupted continuous taper. There is only one tuning slide cross brace and it is solid brass instead of hollow. The connecting ferrules that the cross brace is brazed to are heavy weight, and the bend has a small protective brass strip. The balance is excellent.
The main bell brace is the same diameter as the model 1 and model 2, but it is made from a heavier wall brass, which was necessary for structural stability. One must exercise just a little bit of care and caution when removing or re-installing the candy cane looking tuning slide, but it is not a big deal. It should be done while holding the bell section across your lap and not attached to the hand slide. You would only need to do this once in a while for cleaning and lubing. Adjusting the tuning slide on the fly while the horn is fully assembled is no biggie, simply reach up to the tuning slide cross brace and make your adjustment.
Now for the blow. It is a more open blow somewhat reminiscent of my Williams model 6, but with the immediacy of sound and core of a Lawler. For me, that is a big WOW! From ppp to fff it is a thing of amazement. Very fluid and very even from top to bottom.
I had Roy make mine in all red brass. The stem is .022 and the j-bend and tuning slide inners are red brass too. With my .022 red brass 7 1/2" flare it is an absolute beast. My hand slide is an all yellow brass .500/.508 dual bore and I use a Kanstul W6 leadpipe. My mouthpiece is a Hammond custom that is similar to a Stork T2.
When Roy gets a chance he will be putting up info and photos of the model 3 on his website.
=====
Last edited by TheSheriff on Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
- SwissTbone
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- Contact:
Re: Lawler trombones
Sherrif, one day we will need to see your different Lawlers in action!
A youtube video of you comparing those horns would be a great asset in marketing those horns.
A youtube video of you comparing those horns would be a great asset in marketing those horns.
ƒƒ---------------------------------------------------ƒƒ
Like trombones? Head over to https://swisstbone.com/ to see some great vintage and custom horns!
Like trombones? Head over to https://swisstbone.com/ to see some great vintage and custom horns!
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- Location: Deep in the Ozarks of Missouri
Re: Lawler trombones
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For those that are interested, photos of the new model 3 are now on Roy's website. He references the Williams J-bend model, meaning the Williams model 9, which is a mid-bore f-attachment horn that has a J-bend. Roy's model 3 will only be a straight small bore tenor. He has no plans for an f-attachment trombone, however, a mid-bore, straight .525 is in the works.
I've had my model 3 for several days now and it is superb. The one in the photo is the one he made for me.
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For those that are interested, photos of the new model 3 are now on Roy's website. He references the Williams J-bend model, meaning the Williams model 9, which is a mid-bore f-attachment horn that has a J-bend. Roy's model 3 will only be a straight small bore tenor. He has no plans for an f-attachment trombone, however, a mid-bore, straight .525 is in the works.
I've had my model 3 for several days now and it is superb. The one in the photo is the one he made for me.
=====
Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
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Re: Lawler trombones
That model 3 sounds interesting.
I'd love to try a medium bore horn from him.
I'd love to try a medium bore horn from him.
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- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:11 am
- Location: Deep in the Ozarks of Missouri
Re: Lawler trombones
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The model 3 is, to me, more than interesting. My trumpet playing friend calls it the worlds greatest trombone. He tells me that I play it more intuitively and naturally than I do any of my other horns. Of all the great horns I have, the model 3 amazes me on a daily basis.
I had Roy make me a 7 3/8" .022 yellow flare with a traditional rolled bead and a soldered rim wire. It immediately became my favorite with my model 3. Whereas my 7 1/2" .022 red flare is my favorite with my model 1. That's the beauty of the detachable flare system. It's easy to zero in on the ideal set up and it can be done very affordably.
I love all my Lawler trombones; each has their own distinct personality, yet they are way more alike than they are unalike. His trombones across the board have the Lawler signature sound, feel, and playability. No funny business is to be found anywhere. They are very efficient designs and it comes across in their playability and predictability.
The medium bore that is in the works promises to be spectacular. It's going to be a real old-schooler. Stay tuned for a full report when I get my hands on one. It will probably be a few months away.
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Lawler model 1
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H
Lawler model 2
Lawler Model 3
Williams 6
Williams L
Kanstul 1606
Conn 71H