Minimal bracing & structural integrity?

ttf_ChadA · Post by **ttf_ChadA** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:45 am

This is question is directed more at our resident craftsmen/technicians: with all the efforts some companies make to minimize F attachment bracing, are you seeing any increase to damage and repairs to the bell section as a result? I prefer horns with "edge" style bracing and nothing attached to the bell besides the single flange & tuning slide receiver. Are these horns more susceptible to certain kinds of damage as a result, though?

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:44 am

I'm not a tech, but I have a Kanstul 1662i which has very little bell section bracing compared to an Edwards or Greenhoe. It makes for a much lighter horn. There's enough functional weight on a double without adding non-functional weight.

The bracing on the 1662i is all short, just connecting valve tubing to neckpipe or bell. Much lighter than the alternative. I've never had or heard of structural problems.

ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist · Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:23 am

Another non-tech here. I have a non-modular and a modular horn that both have less bracing. The modular horn feels like it could be less structurally sound and the non-modular feels just lighter. But both play fine and the designs work so I dont worry.

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:26 am

When I build up or modify horns, I go toward minimal bracing. That does make them more liable to damage in some cases. Braces, in the right place, can enhance the blow of a horn.... you need at least enough to keep things stable, but positioning is everything.

Chris Stearn

ttf_sterb225 · Post by **ttf_sterb225** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:54 am

There are some videos of Ben van Dijk working on brace placement for his contra at Thein, fascinating to see the process and effects around what most of us would regard as a trivial thing.

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:25 pm

Quote from: sterb225 on Oct 12, 2017, 11:54AMThere are some videos of Ben van Dijk working on brace placement for his contra at Thein, fascinating to see the process and effects around what most of us would regard as a trivial thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqsiE-C2Kco
Great theme music too!

ttf_ChadA · Post by **ttf_ChadA** » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:54 am

Quote from: sterb225 on Oct 12, 2017, 11:54AMThere are some videos of Ben van Dijk working on brace placement for his contra at Thein, fascinating to see the process and effects around what most of us would regard as a trivial thing.

I don't regard it as trivial at all.

I think it makes a difference. I'm more concerned with what we're giving up to get that improvement.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:20 am

Quote from: ChadA on Oct 13, 2017, 06:54AMI don't regard it as trivial at all.

I think it makes a difference. I'm more concerned with what we're giving up to get that improvement.

Reduced bracing means the horn is more delicate. For some playing this is not a big deal. But for people dancing with trombones, or on a Football Field this can be a problem. You don't want to have your trombone wobbling out of shape while you are flinging it around.

ttf_john sandhagen · Post by **ttf_john sandhagen** » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:38 am

Bracing and connections make a huge difference. IMO it's not what's right, but what's right for the player. 25 years ago I lightened slides weekly, today it's pretty rare. People used to ask if I could take off ALL the braces...now they ask more about which one does what. It's a balancing act.

Structurally it's also a balancing act. Given that no instrument with an F attachment should march, your use should be taken into account...tailored to a specific hall, freelance, gigbag, dancing, pit, air travel,...all should give you pause when you consider an specific design.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:38 am

I suppose this is kinda obvious, but...

The less bracing you have, the more important it is to keep your tuning slides properly maintained so you don't have to apply any more force than is necessary to make adjustments.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:38 am

I suppose this is kinda obvious, but...

The less bracing you have, the more important it is to keep your tuning slides properly maintained so you don't have to apply any more force than is necessary to make adjustments.