Questions about DE mouthpieces

ttf_BillO · Post by **ttf_BillO** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:22 pm

I have here F, G, and H cups (LT) and F8, G8, and H8 shanks.

These all see to be compatible with each other. IOW, the hole at the bottom of each cup is the same size and is also the same size as the hole at the top of each shank. So there is no 'transitional' problem (step) if I put an F shank on an H cup, or vise-versa. The difference is further down where the F shank narrows to an F drill hole, and the G to a G drill, etc.

So, my 1st question is, is there any reason not to use an F shank on an H cup in order to 'fine tune' the mouthpiece?

2nd question. I also have a LT-C cup and two C shanks. The hole in the bottom of the C cup is a lot smaller than the hole in the bottom of the F cup, so a C shank is not compatible with an F cup. My question is, where do these incompatibilities exist> For example, how far does the F to H compatibility go? E-J? F-I?

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:51 pm

Different letter cup/shank are not supposed to be compatible. A D cup would be ok with a D+ shank, but not with an E shank. At least that's the way I understand it. It is explained on Doug's website.

ttf_tbathras · Post by **ttf_tbathras** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:06 pm

What I've observed:

- The throat is in the shank, so yes, any shank/cup will mate
- The lower the letter, the shorter the shank (and the longer the cup, i.e. a J shank is longer than an M shank. Properly mated cup/shanks in the same series are the same total length, when you mix and match, the total length changes)

You can indeed try other combos, but partials might line up weird and notes may not center right. That's my experience.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:45 pm

Ive observed The throats are different for A-D, E-H, and J- I'm not sure I've never owned bigger than M. They are progressively shorter the further down the alphabet you go. It seems to have less influence with bass than tenor shanks but I'm also much more aware of small tenor playing since I've done the most of it.

I put a G8 on an XT E awhile ago and the result was not pleasant. When i put an M8 on my LB L, which is actually my main bass piece at the moment just out of what parts I had accumulated, it plays fine. I'll probably pick up an L8 at some point but I'm not developed on bass yet enough for it to make a difference in my estimation.

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:04 pm

In designing my three part system I had to make a lot of seemingly arbitrary choices to make it work.

The change in hole size at the bottom of the cup occurs between E and F.

Each cup uses its own throat size which is in the shank. It's all part of the design - the curve from the cup continues into the shank. So if you use the wrong letter it may match the hole size but not the rest of the design.

ttf_tbathras · Post by **ttf_tbathras** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:15 pm

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Sep 05, 2017, 02:04PMThe change in hole size at the bottom of the cup occurs between E and F.

Ah, yeah, I've not worked with anything smaller than F.

ttf_BillO · Post by **ttf_BillO** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:19 pm

Okay, makes sense now.

Thanks.

ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist · Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:00 pm

D shank just doesn't sound good with an M cup

ttf_Stewbones43 · Post by **ttf_Stewbones43** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:42 pm

Quote from: Full Pedal Trombonist on Sep 05, 2017, 03:00PMD shank just doesn't sound good with an M cup

I just bought a bass trombone set which doesn't work

LB 113 E I9 (but for £50/$65 who can complain)

My hope was that it might give me a bright, commercial sound but it seems to very unfocussed. I use a Yeo replica for classical stuff. I have used a Yamaha 60B for Big band work before.
I am doing an exchange with another forum member with the rim; my LB113 for his LB114 and I wondered about changing the E cup for an I cup

Any advice would be welcome.

Cheers

Stewbones

ttf_mr.deacon · Post by **ttf_mr.deacon** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:56 pm

Quote from: Stewbones43 on Sep 06, 2017, 04:42PMI just bought a bass trombone set which doesn't work

LB 113 E I9 (but for £50/$65 who can complain)

My hope was that it might give me a bright, commercial sound but it seems to very unfocussed. I use a Yeo replica for classical stuff. I have used a Yamaha 60B for Big band work before.
I am doing an exchange with another forum member with the rim; my LB113 for his LB114 and I wondered about changing the E cup for an I cup

Any advice would be welcome.

Cheers

Stewbones
Just read Doug's comment... Cups need to be matched with shanks.

E cup is really small... That's like a 6 1/2 al cup.

A J cup is like a big 1 1/2g and K is prolly close to a Schilke 59. Personally I'd check out his K if you don't want something Schilke 60 big.

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:00 pm

An I cup is very much incompatible with an E cup. Get an I cup, it's probably what you want.

ttf_Stewbones43 · Post by **ttf_Stewbones43** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:16 am

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Sep 06, 2017, 05:00PMAn I cup is very much incompatible with an E cup. Get an I cup, it's probably what you want.

Thanks Doug, that's just what I needed to hear; well the second bit is, I had already discovered the first bit.

Cheers

Stewbones

ttf_jej · Post by **ttf_jej** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:23 am

Will an E shank work with a D cup?

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:04 am

It will work but it's not the way I designed it.

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:04 am

It will work but it's not the way I designed it.