Help for a fellow trombone player

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:34 pm

I have a good friend that has been playing the trombone all through high school. He would often tell me that the mouthpiece that came with his trombone hurt his lips to play for extended amounts of time. The mouthpiece he speaks of is a Bach 12C. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:00 pm

Is it that the mouthpiece feels too small? Or is there a sharp edge on teh inner rim?

Is it a Chinese copy of a 12C?

The answers to these can help us with a recommendation.

ttf_ns9987 · Post by **ttf_ns9987** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:19 pm

He just told me whenever he was playing higher notes it hurt his lips to play. And yeah it's a newer mouthpiece. Only says Bach 12C on it. Thank you for your help!

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:40 am

Is he pressing real hard to play those high notes? If so that's a good reason why it hurts. You are only supposed to press hard enough to get a good seal.

Do any of you have different mouthpieces for him to try? Maybe a Yamaha 45 or Bach 6 1/2 AL? Different makers have different rim profiles and may hurt less. Or it could be he needs a larger mouthpiece (but that's going to make the high notes harder to hit).

ttf_ns9987 · Post by **ttf_ns9987** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:11 pm

Thank you for your help again, and I thought about the Bach 6-1/2AL I'm scared that mouthpiece is too big for him being he plays most often 1st trombone parts. Have you ever tried a Bach 7C trombone mouthpiece or know anything about that one ?

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:17 pm

7C is good. A little shallower than the 6 1/ AL and around the same size.

He should work on being able to play all the parts; you never know what will happen in the future.

ttf_growlerbox · Post by **ttf_growlerbox** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:44 pm

If the issue is rim profile rather than size, I find the 7C just as uncomfortable as a 12C. The 11C feels "kinder," if you like. Better yet are Yamaha, Marcinkiewicz and Doug Elliott rims, for my money (and therefore in ascending order of cost) at least.

ttf_CharlieB · Post by **ttf_CharlieB** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:10 am

If you place a straightedge across the rim of a Bach 12C, you can see that it has a high crown in the center. That is uncomfortable for many players. A mouthpiece with a flatter rim should help. There are many to choose from.

ttf_kempsmj · Post by **ttf_kempsmj** » Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:36 pm

If the rim is not comfortable for him, he could try a mouthypiece with a flatter rim.
Denis Wick mouthpieces have usually a flatter rim. I played a Denis Wick for years.
(Not playing DW anymore, since I like the flexibility of a rounded rim, but that was after my embouchure got stronger.)

ttf_Radar · Post by **ttf_Radar** » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:18 am

first thing he should do is make sure he isn't pressing too hard to get those high notes!! After that I would try other rim profiles. I was playing a Bach 7C for the rare occasions I had to play lead or second, and I recently pulled out a Yamaha 48 I had lying around and found it to be much more comfortable. I would recommend he include Yamaha mouthpieces in his search.

ttf_Geezerhorn · Post by **ttf_Geezerhorn** » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:41 am

How straight are his teeth? If they are crooked, even just a little, it's possible an edge or two is cutting into his chops. Perhaps a consultation with his dentist?

A larger mpc may help. But in all honesty, that can be a crap shoot. If you could get him to a trombone/baritone instructor - even for a single consultation - that might save you and him some angst!

Or, if you can get access to some used mpcs for demo, a straight Bach 12 or a straight Bach 7 (or anything in between) might feel less sharp to him. The high notes might require a little more work as the cup is deeper on the straight sizes, but the tone might be more mellow and that could be a good trade-off in the long run.

Good luck!

...Geezer

ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist · Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:36 am

Can you do an experiment for me? Hold his trombone for him and have him play up the 1st position overtone series. The higher he plays if you feel him pushing into the trombone then he's using pressure to play high and is likely hurting himself. If he maintains a consistent pressure then I would definitely seek out someone to took at his embouchure and find a good mouthpiece that's a better fit for his chops.

ttf_Full Pedal Trombonist · Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:36 am

Can you do an experiment for me? Hold his trombone for him and have him play up the 1st position overtone series. The higher he plays if you feel him pushing into the trombone then he's using pressure to play high and is likely hurting himself. If he maintains a consistent pressure then I would definitely seek out someone to took at his embouchure and find a good mouthpiece that's a better fit for his chops.