Bach Mercedes 883 Marching Trombone

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:47 am

Does anyone know if the Bach Mercedes 883 marching trombone is a relatively decent horn? I am considering buying one off of eBayfor my son to use in marching band. He has been using a school-owned marching trombone (Dynasty) which is awful--either sounds weak/airy and flat if you're playing at a low dynamic level or blatty if you are giving it all you have, it's really hard to find the middle of a pitch (even when I'm playing it--I don't have any such issues on other trombones or baritones I've used), and the valves stick frequently. Plus it is REALLY bell-heavy (and I know that some marching trombones/baritones are designed so that the bell tips up easily...I played one in HS but I don't know what brand it was). I figure anything would be an improvement but thought I'd ask if anyone has experience with one. I can't find much info on it online since the model is discontinued (I'm guessing it is 80s era?). I would love to get him A Yamaha marching baritone but I don't have $2500 to drop on one (or even $1500 for a used one). The Bach I'm looking at has some cosmetic issues (a few dents that don't affect playing, some plating wear) but it is described as in good working order--valves work freely, slides all move, corks and felts were replaced. Thanks for your advice!

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:27 am

Retired band director here. The Bach Marching Trombone was a design bought from Olds (also Reynolds); most were actually build by Blessing, and the horn was branded under all those names. LOTS of those used in bands for years. Generally play like S#/*. Thin, snotty, blatty sound.

Intonation has problems, lower range is really stuffy. High range isn't too bad, so if you are playing first it might be okay. Flimsy; every older band program probably his a couple of wrecked ones in the back room.

Marching trombones generally don't play very well... the best PLAYING horn for marching band would be a for-real bell front BARITONE, any brand. Lots more sound, better tone, better intonation. The King is practically indestructable. Unfortunately lots of directors want that drum-corps look. Marching baritones play a lot better than the marching trombones, but weigh a ton. The King and Yamaha are probably the best.

If you HAVE to get a 'marching' type horn, get one of the stup-up Chinese marching Baritones, like Wessex.

John Thompson

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:35 am

The 883 was Bach's version of the Olds O-21; Selmer USA purchased the tooling when Olds went out of business. More compact than the DEG/Dynasty M566, with a larger bore (.515" vs. .500") with a smaller bell flare (8" vs. 8.5"). The Olds is pretty well balanced; I never noticed mine being bell-heavy.

Most trombonists seem to prefer the Olds design to the King Flugabone or the DEG/Dynasty instruments, from both a handling and a playing standpoint.

ttf_Euphanasia · Post by **ttf_Euphanasia** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:48 am

Sounds like your son is in a band that requires the use of compact marching valve trombones, so there's no use comparing them to slide trombones or baritones--he'll need to play what the director wants him to play. From my experience (which is extensive) the Bach/Blessing/Olds .515 bore is the best of the bunch, out-playing the Dynasty, King and Conn versions of the compact valve trombone. I've never played the Kanstul, but since it's design is based on the King Flugabone, I wouldn't expect it to play much better.

I disagree with JTBandMusic about the flimsiness of these horns. I see a lot that have been tossed around like footballs, and they tend to hold up well. I think they're just abused more than other instruments tend to be. I also strongly disagree with the idea that a baritone is going to be a good replacement for a marching trombone. They have completely different sounds.

I've never played the Chinese-made marching trombones, but they seem to be emulating the King, which truly is blatty in the high range and stuffy in the low range.

The only 883 I see on Ebay is really overpriced for the condition it's in. If you wait, you should be able to find a reconditioned horn with decent lacquer in that same price range.

ttf_cnowmos · Post by **ttf_cnowmos** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:14 am

Thank you all for the information, it was really helpful. He doesn't necessarily need a compact marching instrument--other kids in the band use slide trombones, and his director wouldn't have a problem with him carrying a baritone--but he is baritone/euphonium player and haven't learned to play slide trombone (yet), and he's a little guy and a regular baritone would be awkward for him to carry around with the kind of marching they do. He's done ok with the school horn he's been using, but as I said the tone is pretty lousy (he sounds fine on a regular upright baritone/euphonium) and it is tiring carrying the thing around and keeping the bell at the proper angle. He will probably be playing first and there are only a few low brass, so it would be good to have something that has a good high range.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:16 am

The Olds ones, if you can find them, are definitely the best of the ones I've played though I've playd elss than Euph has. That said, I actually find just a regular bell front baritone to be the most ergonomic of the valved instrument family. You cradle it with an arm and the other arm is in a fairly resting position. I would 100% go that route if it was an option.

ttf_altoid · Post by **ttf_altoid** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:41 am

I've owned that Bach marching horn as well as the Blessing made Besson equivalent and they played much better than the King Flugabone. Far less stuffy. I've read (on TTF if I recall correctly) that the ergonomics of the Kanstul horn are terrible. I stuck with the Bach until I gave up marching. No complaints.

I find horns of this type to be much easier to play while marching than any bell front baritone horn I've played. I always had trouble keeping the mouthpiece on my face. Not so with a marching trombone. YMMV.

ttf_altoid · Post by **ttf_altoid** » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:41 am

I've owned that Bach marching horn as well as the Blessing made Besson equivalent and they played much better than the King Flugabone. Far less stuffy. I've read (on TTF if I recall correctly) that the ergonomics of the Kanstul horn are terrible. I stuck with the Bach until I gave up marching. No complaints.

I find horns of this type to be much easier to play while marching than any bell front baritone horn I've played. I always had trouble keeping the mouthpiece on my face. Not so with a marching trombone. YMMV.