Does anyone play, or has played a Shires with a gold brass slide? What are your thoughts on how they play/sound vs yellow brass slides and do you think they would work well in an ensemble setting?
Shires Gold Brass Hand Slides
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ttf_goldentone
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ttf_daveyboy37
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Shires Gold Brass Hand Slides
Well, you're going to need more than just the handslide to play in an ensemble, so I'm not sure if anyone would be able to effectively answer your question.
All joking aside, I would email Shires and ask them. They are very good about getting back to customers regarding questions. Also, the rest of the setup will have quite a bit to do with the final sound as well.
All joking aside, I would email Shires and ask them. They are very good about getting back to customers regarding questions. Also, the rest of the setup will have quite a bit to do with the final sound as well.
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ttf_SilverBone
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Shires Gold Brass Hand Slides
I use a TW47G with a 1YM bell. I like the way in works in brass quintets if the tubist is playing an F tuba.
Most of the time I play a TW47 with a 1G bell (orchestra mostly).
I don't find that the gold brass plays any differently, but it does change the overtones somehow so the blend with other instruments changes.
Most of the time I play a TW47 with a 1G bell (orchestra mostly).
I don't find that the gold brass plays any differently, but it does change the overtones somehow so the blend with other instruments changes.
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ttf_conn88plyr
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Shires Gold Brass Hand Slides
Quote from: SilverBone on Jun 16, 2017, 02:28AMI use a TW47G with a 1YM bell. I like the way in works in brass quintets if the tubist is playing an F tuba.
Most of the time I play a TW47 with a 1G bell (orchestra mostly).
I don't find that the gold brass plays any differently, but it does change the overtones somehow so the blend with other instruments changes.
I would tend to agree in my experience. There may be a slight change in articulation but not nearly as much as changing the bell material, and certainly not the type of response change one might get from a nickel silver outer slide. It would depend on the rest of your setup but as SilverBone said the overtones will likely shift to a slightly darker timbre...
Most of the time I play a TW47 with a 1G bell (orchestra mostly).
I don't find that the gold brass plays any differently, but it does change the overtones somehow so the blend with other instruments changes.
I would tend to agree in my experience. There may be a slight change in articulation but not nearly as much as changing the bell material, and certainly not the type of response change one might get from a nickel silver outer slide. It would depend on the rest of your setup but as SilverBone said the overtones will likely shift to a slightly darker timbre...
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ttf_Exzaclee
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Shires Gold Brass Hand Slides
I have a Light Weight Gold Brass .547 slide and I love it.
Compared to the other slides I tried (Nickel, Brass, Red) I think I picked it out because of the others it responded quickest with what matches my personal sound concept. I adjust to horns relatively quickly and make them sound like me... it felt like this one already played that way so I didn't have to try so hard.
Sound wise, it's a little darker, had a bit more "near" feel. When I play on the "high end of the spectrum" it tends to keep the dark mid range better.
Harder to get "blatty" on - I've held onto it because it's my favorite horn to record on. Takes the rough edges off.
In sections, this horn was awesome.
Some of my peers who play more on the classical side of things than I do have remarked that this setup fits me really well, but they wouldn't personally do it. It is easier for me to get what I call the "clone tone" on a Bach 42 or a Shires with a regular weight brass slide.
Compared to the other slides I tried (Nickel, Brass, Red) I think I picked it out because of the others it responded quickest with what matches my personal sound concept. I adjust to horns relatively quickly and make them sound like me... it felt like this one already played that way so I didn't have to try so hard.
Sound wise, it's a little darker, had a bit more "near" feel. When I play on the "high end of the spectrum" it tends to keep the dark mid range better.
Harder to get "blatty" on - I've held onto it because it's my favorite horn to record on. Takes the rough edges off.
In sections, this horn was awesome.
Some of my peers who play more on the classical side of things than I do have remarked that this setup fits me really well, but they wouldn't personally do it. It is easier for me to get what I call the "clone tone" on a Bach 42 or a Shires with a regular weight brass slide.
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ttf_sabutin
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Shires Gold Brass Hand Slides
Quote from: Exzaclee on Jun 16, 2017, 05:38AMI have a Light Weight Gold Brass .547 slide and I love it.
Compared to the other slides I tried (Nickel, Brass, Red) I think I picked it out because of the others it responded quickest with what matches my personal sound concept. I adjust to horns relatively quickly and make them sound like me... it felt like this one already played that way so I didn't have to try so hard.
Sound wise, it's a little darker, had a bit more "near" feel. When I play on the "high end of the spectrum" it tends to keep the dark mid range better.
Harder to get "blatty" on - I've held onto it because it's my favorite horn to record on. Takes the rough edges off.
In sections, this horn was awesome.
Some of my peers who play more on the classical side of things than I do have remarked that this setup fits me really well, but they wouldn't personally do it. It is easier for me to get what I call the "clone tone" on a Bach 42 or a Shires with a regular weight brass slide.
I have spent a great deal of time at the Shires factory over the years, assembling 6 different horns. I've tried just about every mainstream alloy and weight combination available...slides, leadpipes, bells, tuning slides...the works. Gold brass in general...and I have found this in every test of every part of the horn...produces a slightly "darker" sound and more subtle attacks. I have gold or red brass bells on my bass (and also a yellow brass bass bell, which I use in big bands to get that "snap" that's needed in so much big band bass work), my .547, my .525 and my 508 bore horns, but I never much liked it on the slides. It seemed to respond a little slower and not have an aggressive enough attack characteristic for most of the music that I play. I use standard weight brass slides on all my horns, with lighter brass bells on the .500 and .485 bore lead horns. (They need more "snap," too.) Lighter than standard weight slides are too bright for my approach, especially at volume.
That said...the "Try everything; use what works. For you" approach is the only real answer. Weight in one part of the horn can be modified by less weight in other parts.
Good luck...
S.
P.S. I'm not sure that I ever even saw a lightweight gold brass slide there. Maybe, maybe not...
Sounds like a good idea, though.
Compared to the other slides I tried (Nickel, Brass, Red) I think I picked it out because of the others it responded quickest with what matches my personal sound concept. I adjust to horns relatively quickly and make them sound like me... it felt like this one already played that way so I didn't have to try so hard.
Sound wise, it's a little darker, had a bit more "near" feel. When I play on the "high end of the spectrum" it tends to keep the dark mid range better.
Harder to get "blatty" on - I've held onto it because it's my favorite horn to record on. Takes the rough edges off.
In sections, this horn was awesome.
Some of my peers who play more on the classical side of things than I do have remarked that this setup fits me really well, but they wouldn't personally do it. It is easier for me to get what I call the "clone tone" on a Bach 42 or a Shires with a regular weight brass slide.
I have spent a great deal of time at the Shires factory over the years, assembling 6 different horns. I've tried just about every mainstream alloy and weight combination available...slides, leadpipes, bells, tuning slides...the works. Gold brass in general...and I have found this in every test of every part of the horn...produces a slightly "darker" sound and more subtle attacks. I have gold or red brass bells on my bass (and also a yellow brass bass bell, which I use in big bands to get that "snap" that's needed in so much big band bass work), my .547, my .525 and my 508 bore horns, but I never much liked it on the slides. It seemed to respond a little slower and not have an aggressive enough attack characteristic for most of the music that I play. I use standard weight brass slides on all my horns, with lighter brass bells on the .500 and .485 bore lead horns. (They need more "snap," too.) Lighter than standard weight slides are too bright for my approach, especially at volume.
That said...the "Try everything; use what works. For you" approach is the only real answer. Weight in one part of the horn can be modified by less weight in other parts.
Good luck...
S.
P.S. I'm not sure that I ever even saw a lightweight gold brass slide there. Maybe, maybe not...
Sounds like a good idea, though.
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ttf_Duffle
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Shires Gold Brass Hand Slides
My experience is similar to Sam's. For me gold tubes on Shires deaden the sound and articulation.....
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ttf_Gabe Langfur
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Shires Gold Brass Hand Slides
I'll third Sam's experience - I find that the pitch center is sort of slippery and the articulations dull with a standard weight gold brass slide - but with a couple of caveats...
The gold brass slide/lightweight red brass bell combo is one that works pretty consistently to get near that classic Conn 88H feel and sound. There are other ways of course, that better fit some players. I also know at least three excellent orchestral players who play standard weight gold brass slides with gold brass bells.
The second caveat is that a lightweight slide (without sleeves at the top) is always a different animal from its standard weight counterpart. A gold brass lightweight slide tends to play with more stability than a yellow brass lightweight for some reason.
The gold brass slide/lightweight red brass bell combo is one that works pretty consistently to get near that classic Conn 88H feel and sound. There are other ways of course, that better fit some players. I also know at least three excellent orchestral players who play standard weight gold brass slides with gold brass bells.
The second caveat is that a lightweight slide (without sleeves at the top) is always a different animal from its standard weight counterpart. A gold brass lightweight slide tends to play with more stability than a yellow brass lightweight for some reason.
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ttf_mr.deacon
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Shires Gold Brass Hand Slides
Quote from: Gabe Langfur on Jun 17, 2017, 01:49PMThe gold brass slide/lightweight red brass bell combo is one that works pretty consistently to get near that classic Conn 88H feel and sound. There are other ways of course, that better fit some players. I also know at least three excellent orchestral players who play standard weight gold brass slides with gold brass bells.
Have you found similar experiences with the Bass Trombones trying to emulate a 62H or does the standard Yellow Brass B62 slide get closer to that?
Have you found similar experiences with the Bass Trombones trying to emulate a 62H or does the standard Yellow Brass B62 slide get closer to that?
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ttf_Gabe Langfur
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Shires Gold Brass Hand Slides
Quote from: mr.deacon on Jun 17, 2017, 02:35PMHave you found similar experiences with the Bass Trombones trying to emulate a 62H or does the standard Yellow Brass B62 slide get closer to that?
I think some people have. When I played a red bell it was fairly heavy, and I didn't like a B62G with it, but I did enjoy playing a B62GLW. My every day slide was a B62 though, as it still is now with a medium weight gold brass bell.
I think some people have. When I played a red bell it was fairly heavy, and I didn't like a B62G with it, but I did enjoy playing a B62GLW. My every day slide was a B62 though, as it still is now with a medium weight gold brass bell.
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Gold Brass Hand Slides
My experience with Shires gold brass slides is similar, but slightly different. I played one for many years on my Shires small bore that was set up as a middle ground between a Conn 4H and 6H (T85G).
I completely agree with the slightly more slippery feel (I think of it has having a more flexible spring to the centering of notes). I enjoyed this quality and being able to manipulate the sound without beating myself up the way i feel when I do the same thing on a yellow or nickel slide.
The change in articulation depends on the input. More aggressive articulations on nickel or yellow brass can be calmed down and given a "bounce". Round articulations on yellow or nickel generall become dull, or transparent. Certainly, the crispest one generally can hope for is a hard "D" to the front of the notes, not as much "T". Like Sam, this is why I ultimately turned to a different slide for most of my jazz and commercial pursuits. Though I still bring it out when I don't have to cut through a thick ensemble and can take on a more soloistic role.
It does change the color of the sound, generally adding darkness, though I find it can brighten up in a way that only gold brass does. A retention of the low fundamental while pushing the middle overtones up into a brilliant shimmer. A shiny shimmer on the sound that won't overshadow the core sound of the bell. Gold brass when pushed sounds like a bubbling spring to my ears. This is an interesting sound, but often turns off people looking for a seamless blend between less...individual sounding instruments. It can link in a lovely fashion to tuba or horn.
In addition to working very well with lightweight red bells, it can provide a bit some color to yellow bells that are consistent but sound/feel dull. In these cases, we generally turn to a gold tuning slide first, but if that feels dull or doesn't "bounce" I'll suggest a gold brass slide. I seen more acceptance of this sound and character the past couple of years, and some other horns started incorporating the material (and sound) too.
I hope this helps.
I completely agree with the slightly more slippery feel (I think of it has having a more flexible spring to the centering of notes). I enjoyed this quality and being able to manipulate the sound without beating myself up the way i feel when I do the same thing on a yellow or nickel slide.
The change in articulation depends on the input. More aggressive articulations on nickel or yellow brass can be calmed down and given a "bounce". Round articulations on yellow or nickel generall become dull, or transparent. Certainly, the crispest one generally can hope for is a hard "D" to the front of the notes, not as much "T". Like Sam, this is why I ultimately turned to a different slide for most of my jazz and commercial pursuits. Though I still bring it out when I don't have to cut through a thick ensemble and can take on a more soloistic role.
It does change the color of the sound, generally adding darkness, though I find it can brighten up in a way that only gold brass does. A retention of the low fundamental while pushing the middle overtones up into a brilliant shimmer. A shiny shimmer on the sound that won't overshadow the core sound of the bell. Gold brass when pushed sounds like a bubbling spring to my ears. This is an interesting sound, but often turns off people looking for a seamless blend between less...individual sounding instruments. It can link in a lovely fashion to tuba or horn.
In addition to working very well with lightweight red bells, it can provide a bit some color to yellow bells that are consistent but sound/feel dull. In these cases, we generally turn to a gold tuning slide first, but if that feels dull or doesn't "bounce" I'll suggest a gold brass slide. I seen more acceptance of this sound and character the past couple of years, and some other horns started incorporating the material (and sound) too.
I hope this helps.
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ttf_anonymous
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Shires Gold Brass Hand Slides
Spot on answer from Ben.
I have just bought a wonderful 1958 Mt Vernon Bach 42.
Interestingly, it does have gold brass slide tubes, unlike any other Bach 42s I have seen.
It plays way better than any newer Bachs I have tried. I believe the gold brass slide gives some of its beautiful ovetones (yellow bell by the way).
I dont know why Bach is not offering this option still.
I have just bought a wonderful 1958 Mt Vernon Bach 42.
Interestingly, it does have gold brass slide tubes, unlike any other Bach 42s I have seen.
It plays way better than any newer Bachs I have tried. I believe the gold brass slide gives some of its beautiful ovetones (yellow bell by the way).
I dont know why Bach is not offering this option still.
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ttf_sabutin
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Shires Gold Brass Hand Slides
Pay attention when Ben talks about his experiences with anything Shires-related. He has great access to everything that comes out of the shop plus he is really an equipment...I guess "appreciator" might be the best term. He likes all good-playing horns no matter how they are good-playing. Plus, he plays all sizes of instrument and m'pces as a high-level, working pro.
You cannot get better info.
Bet on it.
Later...
S.
You cannot get better info.
Bet on it.
Later...
S.
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ttf_sabutin
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Shires Gold Brass Hand Slides
Pay attention when Ben talks about his experiences with anything Shires-related. He has great access to everything that comes out of the shop plus he is really an equipment...I guess "appreciator" might be the best term. He likes all good-playing horns no matter how they are good-playing. Plus, he plays all sizes of instrument and m'pces as a high-level, working pro.
You cannot get better info.
Bet on it.
Later...
S.
You cannot get better info.
Bet on it.
Later...
S.