Conn 83h

[hyperbolica]

I just received a Conn 83h from ebay. I got a pretty good deal on it. The conventional wisdom on this model is that it is pretty rare and that most of them pretty much suck, so I wasn't going to risk a lot of good money on this.

The specs are normal modern bass bone: 0.562" bore, 9.5" red bell, tuning in bell, closed wrap F open wrap 2nd valve, bow guard on tuning slide, inline valves, modern conventional levers (thumb and middle finger), Bb/F/G/Eb tuning with an optional D slide. This one seems to have started in Puerto Rico, made its way to Florida, and I'm the 3rd owner. From the serial, I can't figure out the year, and the owner ambiguously gave me two dates - '72 and '79.

It seems to have a bit of stray solder on it, as if the soldering was well done, but it wasn't cleaned up afterward. 2 things look like they are non-stock. First, the 2nd lever mount looks different from what I've seen in one of the official ads from the 70s. And second, it was sold to me as a Bb/F/G/Eb, but it is clearly a D slide. The 2nd valve slide is definitely aftermarket, as some of the bracing looks sloppy and not square. The solder joints between the wrap and the bell also look a little heavier than standard to me.

Just to say that there are some quality flags, and the horn has clearly seen some work.

BUT... The slide is really impeccable. No plating loss. Right out of the box it was beautiful. Also, all the tuning slides move perfectly - just the right amount of resistance, no sticking. Valves are very nice. There's a fair bit of pitting around the grip and the finish is mostly gone. But to me, that's a good sign. I think this thing has really been played, and functional repairs were done to the taste of the player. It didn't just sit in a closet somewhere.

I was ready for it to be stuffy or limited range, or have something really just odd about it. If you search the forum on this model, most of the posts have been very negative. There were some veiled positive comments, but people here don't want to buck popular opinions, and I think as an Abilene model, it is popular to throw a lot of shade at the occasional 83h that pops up every few years.

But, I gotta say, this thing plays great. It is somewhat reminiscent of the modern 62hs I've been able to play. It does seem to prefer a slightly smaller mouthpiece than my Kanstul. It also plays more like a trombone than the Kanstul, which plays more like a baritone. The Kanstul likes mouthpieces around a 1 1/4G, but then the high range goes all kazoo on you. This 83h sounds like an actual trombone up high with a Ferguson V (small 1.5G), but you can still go to pedal F. It didn't like a DE XBK8, Yamaha 60L or a Schilke 59. But it did seem to like the Schilke 58 long shank, Ferguson V and the DE Euph J9.

The slide is (like a 7X series slide) about 1.25" longer than a conventional Conn large tenor slide, so you have a chance getting close to low C with a single valve. It also has the springs in the slide, which doesn't bother me as much on this horn as it has on others. And I read somewhere, which seems to make sense, that the 83h has the tighter bell taper of the 7x series (compared to the bigger throat of the 6x series). To me, that's a good compromise. It makes this an all-around playable musical instrument, not just a low-note generating machine.

There might be 2 things I might do to it by way of changes: first would be to remove the leadpipe and have a thread adapter put on, so I can try some different pipes. Certainly not a necessity, but could possibly improve on an already pretty good situation. There was some speculation that what went wrong with this model could have been related to the leadpipe. The second thing I'd change would be to move the pivot for the 2nd valve. The throw for your finger seems too long, so moving the pivot towards the finger would reduce that (and obviously shortening that side of the lever.)

Anyway, I'm pleasantly surprised. For the price of a Chinese horn, I got something that on paper looks like a 62h, but with all of the things most people don't like about the 62h changed to a more conventional design (inline valves, no TIS, split levers, D tuning, longer 7x slide).

Next tests are going to be big band and tbone quartet. I haven't settled on a mouthpiece yet, but playing in context will help do that. I just wanted to add something to the record for this model. A lot of the scant info that's here is speculative and really overwhelmingly negative. I'm typically an Elkhart fan, but you can't touch a 62h for much under $4k, and I spent less than 1/3 that. Even 73h in decent condition are getting hard to find and pricey.

Is it time to give up the Kanstul after 10 years of wrangling with it? Might I finally stop hating the bass trombone, even while I have to play it constantly? I don't know about any of that, but I do think I'm enjoying playing this Conn and bucking conventional wisdom a little.

Here's the ad that I was able to find from 1979, shown in Eb trim:

19.jpg

[blast]

I'm very happy for you. A good 83H is possible...they should all have been good, but build problems wrecked most. Back when they first came out, I tried a great one...bought it (new) and went to pick it up the following week. I went with a friend who spotted damage to the chrome of the inner slide. I said I would wait for another. It arrived the day before I left on tour, so I just took it. Several weeks of hell followed as this trombone would not center at all. When I got home, I complained and was sent to the depot to try the others. Not one of those 83Hs worked. Not at all. I took the 'best' and traded it in a London shop for an Olds P24G which at least had some slot. So, I tried a great, if flawed example, and Derek Bishop had one for many years that was obviously a good horn. Congratulations...you have number three !!!
Look after it. You may never find another decent one.

[hyperbolica]

I'm very happy for you. A good 83H is possible...they should all have been good, but build problems wrecked most. Back when they first came out, I tried a great one...bought it (new) and went to pick it up the following week. I went with a friend who spotted damage to the chrome of the inner slide. I said I would wait for another. It arrived the day before I left on tour, so I just took it. Several weeks of hell followed as this trombone would not center at all. When I got home, I complained and was sent to the depot to try the others. Not one of those 83Hs worked. Not at all. I took the 'best' and traded it in a London shop for an Olds P24G which at least had some slot. So, I tried a great, if flawed example, and Derek Bishop had one for many years that was obviously a good horn. Congratulations...you have number three !!!
Look after it. You may never find another decent one.

Thanks. It seems this one has had some work. It might have been one of the original rejects that some tech gave a second lease on life. The model has potential, anyway. The design is as down-the-middle and risk-averse as it could be in the 1970s, which makes you wonder why they had so much trouble with it. Not one aspect of the design is out of line, unlike the much more popular 62h. Anyway, I took a chance on it, and it worked out.

My plan was to buy a horn that probably sucked, but don't pay much for it. There isn't any obvious reason why it should suck, so it should be able to be fixed. Maybe it was a weak plan, but I just got lucky and it worked out.

[HawaiiTromboneGuy]

So you’re the one that got it! I had it on my watchlist and noticed it sold. Congrats!

[hyperbolica]

So you’re the one that got it! I had it on my watchlist and noticed it sold. Congrats!

There were over 100 watchers. I was sure some of them were from here. Just probably waiting to see which schmuck was clueless enough to bite.

At first I thought it was a scam because the same horn with the same pictures were being used by someone else in Europe. I even told eBay it was a scam, but they convinced me it wasn't. The whole thing was a bit of a long-odds bet.

[HawaiiTromboneGuy]

So you’re the one that got it! I had it on my watchlist and noticed it sold. Congrats!

There were over 100 watchers. I was sure some of them were from here. Just probably waiting to see which schmuck was clueless enough to bite.

At first I thought it was a scam because the same horn with the same pictures were being used by someone else in Europe. I even told eBay it was a scam, but they convinced me it wasn't. The whole thing was a bit of a long-odds bet.

Truth be told, I did ask the person that listed it on FB as to why the locations were different. He said he was simply helping his friend list it as they did not have Facebook. He was telling the truth as he gave me the email of his friend (Adrian) and he responded to my emails with specific photos of the horn that weren’t posted.

[hyperbolica]

Truth be told, I did ask the person that listed it on FB as to why the locations were different. He said he was simply helping his friend list it as they did not have Facebook. He was telling the truth as he gave me the email of his friend (Adrian) and he responded to my emails with specific photos of the horn that weren’t posted.

Yeah, that checks out. I usually investigate a little bit if I don't know the person involved. He was naive, but legit.

[Dennis]

From the serial, I can't figure out the year, and the owner ambiguously gave me two dates - '72 and '79.

1972 is much too early for an 83H. In 1972 Minick and Herrick were doing the first in-line Bb/F/G/Eb conversions of 70H and 72Hs. Those were the progenitors of the 83H.

I'm glad you got a good one.

[hyperbolica]

1972 is much too early for an 83H. In 1972 Minick and Herrick were doing the first in-line Bb/F/G/Eb conversions of 70H and 72Hs. Those were the progenitors of the 83H.

I'm glad you got a good one.

Thanks for that info. Makes sense. Long slide, narrow bell taper, bow guard on tuning slide. Red bell is the big difference.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

I don’t know much about the 83H, other than I remember seeing it advertised in The Instrumentalist magazine. Is the bell based on the 72H or the 62H taper?

[hyperbolica]

Sounds like its the 7x taper.

[ithinknot]

Must be, given the overall design, but if you want to check... stem OD next to the ferrule is roughly .955" for a 70H and 1.04" for a 60H.

[hornbuilder]

The 83 bell was made on the same mandrel as the 71, 72, 73 bells, but in red brass

[hyperbolica]

measurements of bell stem just forward of biggest ferrule:
1662i=1.01"
83h=0.97"
King 1480=0.91"
Holton tr159=0.90"
88h=0.89"