Bad news from the symphonic scene

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RustBeltBass
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Bad news from the symphonic scene

Post by RustBeltBass » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:02 am

https://www.theindychannel.com/news/cor ... o-pandemic


At least the second big orchestra in the USA that cancels an entire season, Nashville Symphony having been the first one to announce this.

I wonder how many might follow.
Last edited by RustBeltBass on Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by Kbiggs » Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:54 pm

This is sad, and awful.

I wonder whether these decisions might be premature? Granted, the current trajectory of positive cases, and esp. clusters in metropolitan areas, is alarming, and the outlook isn’t good for the fall. I’m also wondering how many orchestras and other performing arts organizations will be able to survive if the pandemic continues beyond 2020? Know way to know until we get there...
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by BGuttman » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:59 pm

Since we play in a school auditorium, we are expecting to lose our first concert of 2020-2021 (late October). All the rest of our season is also in the air, to be ironed out as decisions are made about school openings.

I expect a lot of community orchestras and bands are in the same boat we are.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by Burgerbob » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:11 pm

Performing arts (especially those that need closely packed, indoor audiences) will be one of the last things to return. I'm not surprised at all.

Wear your masks, everyone.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by Dennis » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:09 pm

I'm on the board of my brass band. We have no idea when we will be able to rehearse again, much less hold any concerts.

These are the early announcements. More are coming. My wife and I have already discussed things, and when the Cincinnati SO cancels its season we won't be asking for a refund on our season tickets. We are fortunate that we can afford to do this.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by 8parktoollover » Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:50 am

I was lucky to be able to play a few concerts in the past 2 months. Not sure when I'll be able to perform again.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by harrisonreed » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:37 am

8parktoollover wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:50 am
I was lucky to be able to play a few concerts in the past 2 months. Not sure when I'll be able to perform again.
Where the heck did you do that? Not very smart of the people putting those concerts on.

I saw a recent Monozl (spelling?) Brass recording on YouTube that was a straight up concert jammed with people in the audience. They even dated it as recent, within the last few weeks. Honestly people, especially in the west, seem to be unable to control themselves. It's not hard. We probably could have ended the pandemic months ago if we took South Korea's approach across the whole world.

Who cares when we can play concerts again? Let's stop being fools and get this pandemic under control.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by CalgaryTbone » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:39 am

harrisonreed wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:37 am
8parktoollover wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:50 am
I was lucky to be able to play a few concerts in the past 2 months. Not sure when I'll be able to perform again.
Where the heck did you do that? Not very smart of the people putting those concerts on.

I saw a recent Monozl (spelling?) Brass recording on YouTube that was a straight up concert jammed with people in the audience. They even dated it as recent, within the last few weeks. Honestly people, especially in the west, seem to be unable to control themselves. It's not hard. We probably could have ended the pandemic months ago if we took South Korea's approach across the whole world.

Who cares when we can play concerts again? Let's stop being fools and get this pandemic under control.
:good: :good: :good:
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by BGuttman » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:56 am

harrisonreed wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:37 am
8parktoollover wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:50 am
I was lucky to be able to play a few concerts in the past 2 months. Not sure when I'll be able to perform again.
Where the heck did you do that? Not very smart of the people putting those concerts on.

I saw a recent Monozl (spelling?) Brass recording on YouTube that was a straight up concert jammed with people in the audience. They even dated it as recent, within the last few weeks. Honestly people, especially in the west, seem to be unable to control themselves. It's not hard. We probably could have ended the pandemic months ago if we took South Korea's approach across the whole world.

Who cares when we can play concerts again? Let's stop being fools and get this pandemic under control.
I'm afraid we are doomed to repeat 1918-1920, where there were FOUR waves of flu (although the big one was Wave 2). :frown:
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by DDoghouse » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:52 am

CalgaryTbone wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:39 am
harrisonreed wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:37 am


Where the heck did you do that? Not very smart of the people putting those concerts on.

I saw a recent Monozl (spelling?) Brass recording on YouTube that was a straight up concert jammed with people in the audience. They even dated it as recent, within the last few weeks. Honestly people, especially in the west, seem to be unable to control themselves. It's not hard. We probably could have ended the pandemic months ago if we took South Korea's approach across the whole world.

Who cares when we can play concerts again? Let's stop being fools and get this pandemic under control.
:good: :good: :good:
I did two concerts this week. We were outdoors, and the band members were all separated by at least 6ft. Masks were worn when not in seated in your chair. Sanitizer was available. Chairs were all sanitized by the band manager.

Conductor wore a mask while conducting, but I was still able to see him scowl at me. There were challenges with ensemble and balance, but we are working on it. The real blessing is that the 2nd trombone player who makes my ears bleed was 8 feet away.

Audience was also socially distanced.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by Bach5G » Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:09 pm

If players of non-wind instruments wore masks, the brass used screens over their bells - don’t know what to do about the woodwinds - maybe.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by Burgerbob » Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:28 pm

Bach5G wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:09 pm
If players of non-wind instruments wore masks, the brass used screens over their bells - don’t know what to do about the woodwinds - maybe.
The problem isn't the orchestra (thought it's a smaller one), it's the audience.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by Bach5G » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:03 pm

I would think your Symph audience is accustomed to masks and social distancing by now.

But it’s necessary to get the pandemic under control first.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by Burgerbob » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:31 pm

Bach5G wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:03 pm
I would think your Symph audience is accustomed to masks and social distancing by now.

But it’s necessary to get the pandemic under control first.
That's the problem. Social distancing means people every few seats, which means maybe- maximum- 1/3rd capacity. Probably much less. That's not very much income. What do you do in an emergency? How do concert hall staff distance?

My wife works for the LA Phil and that's exactly why they decided against having any concerts inside with audience. The orchestra they can deal with.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by harrisonreed » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:18 pm

DDoghouse wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:52 am

I did two concerts this week. We were outdoors, and the band members were all separated by at least 6ft. Masks were worn when not in seated in your chair. Sanitizer was available. Chairs were all sanitized by the band manager.

Conductor wore a mask while conducting, but I was still able to see him scowl at me. There were challenges with ensemble and balance, but we are working on it. The real blessing is that the 2nd trombone player who makes my ears bleed was 8 feet away.

Audience was also socially distanced.
Bach5G wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:09 pm
If players of non-wind instruments wore masks, the brass used screens over their bells - don’t know what to do about the woodwinds - maybe.
The problem is that people, mostly healthy young and middle agreed people, can afford to not take it seriously and delude themselves into thinking that social distancing and wearing masks is fail safe and now we can go have huge concerts, or small concerts. I'm sorry, but this is the dumbest thing you can do and it's like slapping your rear end into the face of what should be thought of as a serious disease.

Look at it this way, for older people and unhealthy people, Covid might as well be Ebola -- a very contagious version of Ebola. Let's be generous and say that staying a (measly) 6 feet away from others and wearing a mask reduces transmission by 75%. That's great. It's still probably a higher transmission rate than Ebola (which is only slightly more deadly than Covid for the risk population).

Now, if Covid was deadly like Ebola for EVERYONE, then no one would be going to concerts. No one would be getting all self righteous about masks. Everyone would know someone, and not just grandma or grandpa, who died in a horrible way from a horrible disease. But because it's only "just" grandma and grandpa, and younger healthier people have little to worry about, they delude themselves with 6 ft circles and masks. Sure, it helps. I know it does. But no way is it 100% fail safe. And so you go home from the concert, and someone has Covid, asymptomatic. And now you're giving it to grandma, because you don't have to wear a mask when you visit her. You're family. And, because you're a fool who didn't take it seriously, you think you don't have it, and you think family can't transmit to family.

Is this scientific? No, I'm not a scientist. I know several people who are now no longer with us because of Covid, and fools not taking it seriously. We all play a part in how this plays out. Think of it like Ebola, and the way forward should seem obvious, as boring and un-fun as it seems.

Like Aidan said, the problem is mostly the audience, but musicians are at risk too. Also, the musicians must bear the blame for putting on the concert to begin with. There wouldn't be an audience at risk if there wasn't a concert to begin with. We must take responsibility for the wellbeing of the people we want to perform for.
Last edited by harrisonreed on Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by Bach5G » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:42 pm

“ Two American nurses contracted the disease while treating the Liberian patient, but both recovered. In other words, only two people have ever been infected with Ebola while on American soil and neither died.”
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by harrisonreed » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:48 pm

Bach5G wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:42 pm
“ Two American nurses contracted the disease while treating the Liberian patient, but both recovered. In other words, only two people have ever been infected with Ebola while on American soil and neither died.”
Great, let's treat it as more deadly than Ebola, then. You could argue it is. It's killed so many people, and is far more transmissible.

I'm not going to argue about how deadly it is any more. But I'll continue to point out where I think people are being selfish and actively contributing to the problem. Asking "how can we get around this problem so I can just get back to playing my concerts?" is selfish and contributes to the problem.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by Bach5G » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:52 pm

Here in BC, in Canada, we sort of have this under control. Sort of. On Friday, in BC, we had 27 new cases. So, under control enough to contemplate moving forward and life in the future with Covid. In no way, are we out of the woods. In such circumstances, what might a orch concert look like?
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by harrisonreed » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:57 pm

So, in Japan it was under control. It got down to below 50 new cases a day country wide. I bet BC is similar. Then they relaxed the restrictions a bit (because, economy!) And the new cases crept back up to 500 per day. It's such a slippery slope. EDIT: now we're up to 830...

I imagine BC is no where near the insane number of cases the US is seeing every day.
Last edited by harrisonreed on Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by BGuttman » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:57 pm

Bach5G wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:52 pm
Here in BC, in Canada, we sort of have this under control. Sort of. Enough, maybe, to contemplate moving forward and life in the future. In no way, are we out of the woods.
The problem is that southern BC is adjacent to Washington State, where there has been a resurgence of COVID. All you need are a few folks crossing the border and away you go. We have the same issue here in the northeast US. Numbers in New England have been encouraging, but summer vacationers from the rest of the US could reintroduce the virus here.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by Bach5G » Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:25 pm

The border has been closed for the last 5 months and no one on this side of the border is eager to see it reopened anytime soon. There’s been an issue about Americans crossing the border, allegedly returning to Alaska, but being found considerably off route. Warnings and a few fines, so far. People with US plates on their car have complained about verbal abuse. We can see what’s going on in Washington State (only 3 km from my home) and elsewhere in the US and don’t want to see it here. Even the Americans in Pt Roberts WA can’t cross for non-essential travel. That means they are cut off from CONUS.

We’re in a limited re-opening, with social distancing and masks recommended. So restaurants and bars are open but with reduced capacity. A friend played a gig where there was SD. A jazz gig. He said the size of the audience wasn’t much different than pre-Covid.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by 8parktoollover » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:50 pm

harrisonreed wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:37 am
8parktoollover wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:50 am
I was lucky to be able to play a few concerts in the past 2 months. Not sure when I'll be able to perform again.
Where the heck did you do that? Not very smart of the people putting those concerts on.

I saw a recent Monozl (spelling?) Brass recording on YouTube that was a straight up concert jammed with people in the audience. They even dated it as recent, within the last few weeks. Honestly people, especially in the west, seem to be unable to control themselves. It's not hard. We probably could have ended the pandemic months ago if we took South Korea's approach across the whole world.

Who cares when we can play concerts again? Let's stop being fools and get this pandemic under control.
Here COVID's status as a threat was retracted for a week. It was fun while it lasted.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by Cotboneman » Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:43 pm

BGuttman wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:59 pm
Since we play in a school auditorium, we are expecting to lose our first concert of 2020-2021 (late October). All the rest of our season is also in the air, to be ironed out as decisions are made about school openings.

I expect a lot of community orchestras and bands are in the same boat we are.
You're right. The governing board of the orchestra that I play in, the Civic Orchestra of Tucson, which rehearses at a church, just announced that the first of half of the 2020-21 season is cancelled, including the four scheduled December ballet performances of the Nutcracker. Lost also is the fall's Mahler 5 performance in October.

Most community orchestras are made up of retired professional folks (and sometimes younger college aged kids) who have proven most vulnerable to this disease. The fact that most of these orchestras rehearse in limited spaces which preclude much social distancing or expanded section spacing makes it very difficult to take appropriate steps to reduce the chance of airborne infection.

In our case, with the pandemic spiking here and schools about to open, some in-person, I could not even venture to guess if we will be able to salvage much of the second half of the season. It's the new reality for the present.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by harrisonreed » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:42 pm

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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by Dennis » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:43 pm

The Cincinnati SO and Cincinnati Pops (really the same orchestra with different MDs) announced today that they will be playing concerts in Music Hall without an audience for the 2020-2021 season. The concerts will be webcast. Subscribers will have access to the recorded concerts.
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Re: Bad news from Indianapolis

Post by RustBeltBass » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:36 pm

Chicago Symphony Orchestra is canceling all shows until Xmas.
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Re: Bad news from the symphonic scene

Post by GabrielRice » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:34 am

If you can afford to, please support relief efforts for freelance musicians and others in the performing arts. Many of us are in a very difficult place; our mix of W2 and self-employment income makes our unemployment benefits small and tenuous. In some states the unemployment benefit caps out at a ridiculously low number anyway, or the system is so broken that people haven't been able to get benefits at all. Or they've been notified that they qualify for benefits but have seen little to no money, and haven't been able to get any answers why.

I've been doing OK so far - Massachusetts is one of the better states, with a higher cap and a system that's creaky but basically works. But with the stimulus benefit about to expire I'm looking at an extended period of severely reduced income. I'll very likely be dipping into retirement savings. I'm confident I'll survive and still be able to be a musician when the pandemic ebbs. But many of my colleagues are not so lucky.

Here in New England we are organizing a nonprofit to help, called the New England Musicians Relief Fund: https://www.nemrf.org/ We've partnered with a national nonprofit called Sweet Relief - https://www.sweetrelief.org/ - for our initial campaign. They are an excellent organization with a general fund intended for musicians who are suffering illness or injury, and now a COVID-19 fund for musicians and others in the music industry out of work due to the pandemic.

Please give if you can.
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Re: Bad news from the symphonic scene

Post by RustBeltBass » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:07 pm

Already a week old but news to me:

San Antonio Symphony canceling until 2021.

https://theviolinchannel.com/san-antoni ... -pandemic/
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Re: Bad news from the symphonic scene

Post by BrianJohnston » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:07 pm

RustBeltBass wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:02 am
https://www.theindychannel.com/news/cor ... o-pandemic


At least the second big orchestra in the USA that cancels an entire season, Nashville Symphony having been the first one to announce this.

I wonder how many might follow.
In the Fort Wayne Philharmonic I don't expect to go back to work until Winter of 2021/2022 to be honest.
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Re: Bad news from the symphonic scene

Post by WGWTR180 » Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:43 am

The major concert venue here in Hartford CT will not do anything with reduced audiences. It's not profitable for anyone so until there's a vaccine and until everyone agrees to take it(good effing luck with that) then large scale concerts will not return.
But what bothers me are the folks who decide to "grow a brain" and think they've come up with a solution. All of the science points towards staying the heck away from each other. Had we done this in earnest waaaaaaay back in March we would be be better off now. But people come up with ideas. "Yeh let's get together and sit six feet apart and do a concert." Great idea Einstein! I just saw a big band on video who just did a concert in CT. They were outdoors but were crammed into a small space. Yeh they were having a great time! Good for them. Stay the "f" home!
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Re: Bad news from the symphonic scene

Post by harrisonreed » Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:48 am

No, those people running the venue and band did the science. They can see the virus so they know how far it can go....

... Wait never mind. There was a joke somewhere there, but the 6 foot rule is so dumb and not based in any provable science that it makes anything associated with it un-funny.
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Re: Bad news from the symphonic scene

Post by BGuttman » Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:14 am

harrisonreed wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:48 am
No, those people running the venue and band did the science. They can see the virus so they know how far it can go....

... Wait never mind. There was a joke somewhere there, but the 6 foot rule is so dumb and not based in any provable science that it makes anything associated with it un-funny.
Actually, the 6 foot (2 meter) rule WAS based on some science.

Initially it was thought that the major form of virus transfer was through droplets. These droplets are created when you cough or talk. The droplets are large and have a trajectory and will start to fall. Initially it was though to be 3 feet (1 meter) and later found to be 6 feet (2 meters). We have subsequently learned that the aerosol that accompanies the droplets can cause transfer, but it takes more aerosol and a longer time. You can even see the aerosol coming out of the bell of a trombone in a strong beam of light.

Our knowledge of this virus keeps changing and you have to keep an open mind about what is and is not a good idea. Note that outdoors is better for preventing transfer because the fresh air tends to sweep the droplets and aerosol away before you can absorb or inhale it. Maybe we should be doing concerts in a tropical storm :tongue:
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Re: Bad news from the symphonic scene

Post by harrisonreed » Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:30 pm

BGuttman wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:14 am
harrisonreed wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:48 am
No, those people running the venue and band did the science. They can see the virus so they know how far it can go....

... Wait never mind. There was a joke somewhere there, but the 6 foot rule is so dumb and not based in any provable science that it makes anything associated with it un-funny.
Actually, the 6 foot (2 meter) rule WAS based on some science.
Having been in a large room that was gassed out from the smallest pook of a fart, aimed directly into a cushioned chair by a co-worker, I can assure you that as a layman, the 6 ft rule cannot be based in any sort of science.
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Re: Bad news from the symphonic scene

Post by BGuttman » Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:35 pm

Farts are not droplets. They are chemicals dispersed in air.
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Re: Bad news from the symphonic scene

Post by harrisonreed » Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:41 pm

BGuttman wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:35 pm
Farts are not droplets. They are chemicals dispersed in air.
Bruce, there must've been droplets deposited somewhere from this one. It sounded wet :lol:
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Re: Bad news from the symphonic scene

Post by BrianJohnston » Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:12 pm

There's a plethora of information here that could effect each individual orchestra. For example Fort Wayne Philharmonic basically followed Indianapolis' move to furlough the musicians. The management is "apparently" looking for additional ways to make money, but thankfully there are still socially distanced church gigs and weddings that would like brass quartets/quintets to perform.

Clearly COVID19 is not helping the scene, but many orchestras are taking the virtual move and it's working alright.
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Re: Bad news from the symphonic scene

Post by afugate » Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:51 am

BGuttman wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:35 pm
Farts are not droplets. They are chemicals dispersed in air.
This is an important distinction that is often lost.

Yes, the virus is very, very small. But the transmission vector is not.

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Re: Bad news from the symphonic scene

Post by harrisonreed » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:03 am

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/coronavir ... udy-finds/

I'll see your 6 feet and raise you ten!
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