TromboneChat

Any way I can put myself out there or get in touch with any groups? I live in Central WI if anybody knows of some people around here.

I just wanna make some money off of playing. And, I wanna play with a group. That would be nice.

Any work will come from people you know , so do a bit of research and go and play with all the grouos/ensembles/bands you can, even if you aren't being laid as that is the way people get to hear, see how good you are and if relieve etc

Vegasbound wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:02 am Any work will come from people you know , so do a bit of research and go and play with all the grouos/ensembles/bands you can, even if you aren't being laid as that is the way people get to hear, see how good you are and if relieve etc

Auto correct is a cold mistress, huh?

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:30 am

Vegasbound wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:02 am Any work will come from people you know , so do a bit of research and go and play with all the grouos/ensembles/bands you can, even if you aren't being laid as that is the way people get to hear, see how good you are and if relieve etc

Auto correct is a cold mistress, huh?

Indeed it is! :coo happens to us all at some time or another

Vegasbound wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:02 am Any work will come from people you know , so do a bit of research and go and play with all the grouos/ensembles/bands you can, even if you aren't being laid as that is the way people get to hear, see how good you are and if relieve etc

awh i really only care about the music part so that's not too big of a loss

It is unfortunate that "knowing people" seems to be the only way to accomplish these sort of things though.

Bloo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:42 am
It is unfortunate that "knowing people" seems to be the only way to accomplish these sort of things though.

I'm as anti-social as anyone, but how do you expect to do this without "knowing people"? I moved to a new area and had to get to know a whole bunch of people, and actually play volunteer gigs with them before I started getting calls. On top of that you have to be a reasonably nice person. And only then do they start listening to how you play. I know, what a drag, right? You might even have to make some friends!! Blech!!!

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:18 am

Bloo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:42 am
It is unfortunate that "knowing people" seems to be the only way to accomplish these sort of things though.

I'm as anti-social as anyone, but how do you expect to do this without "knowing people"? I moved to a new area and had to get to know a whole bunch of people, and actually play volunteer gigs with them before I started getting calls. On top of that you have to be a reasonably nice person. And only then do they start listening to how you play. I know, what a drag, right? You might even have to make some friends!! Blech!!!

Easier said than done, being tolerant is a good percentage of trying to get these gigs. I'm in his metaphorical boat as well trying to get to play on the regular, its amazing how many of this ensembles simply want people just to show up, talent is not the priority, first come, first serve is. Taking the instrument very seriously seems to be a rare occurrence around here. Maybe its simply just the way I see it. Perspective is a beast.......

I wear a lot of hats as a musician. One of those hats is that of "contractor" - meaning I call people for gigs on those occasions when that's my job. There are a lot of factors that go into why I might call someone for a gig, but the most important factor, the one that will determine whether I call them or not, is do I know this person?

If someone is on my list, they can already play. I know they have the requisite talent, I know whether they read really well or not, I know if they are appropriate for the gig...

I'm not recommending someone I do not know for a gig. For starters, I probably don't have their phone number. As far as people who I haven't played with, they need to have a pretty strong recommendation from someone who I do know or I need to be otherwise aware of what they do and how they do it.

Sometimes people confuse this with a "good ol' boy network" or some form of nepotism and that's simply not the case. To get called for a gig I have to:

A) Know who you are

B) Know what you can do.

That doesn't happen if you don't get out there and play. Every place is like this - even in major cities, you don't just get a union card and put your name on a list somewhere. You have to get out on the scene. Go to concerts, gigs, jam sessions, reading sessions, meet the musicians, be sociable.

In music you need friends that recommends your services. I got my first job as a music teacher on a recommendation. At that time 1982 I was 19 and they actually phoned me and asked if I wanted the job and I just had to fill in a form. I did not even have the education which never would happen today. I stayed there 13 years plus four years when I educated myself at the "Royal Academy of Music". I could go back to the job after those four years. That's how it was back then. This will never happen today with a job as a teacher. When it comes to freelance job as a musician they have always come from recommendations. You know somebody who recommends you and you recommend someone you know. You need a lot of friends to stay busy To me I had to much work going on as a teacher to be able to say yes to be able to work much as a musician. In time I got fewer jobs as a musician and wanted a change in career.

If it was hard time to get job as a musician it was hard time to get a job as a computer programmer to. Jobs just don't jump on you.

When I switched carrer I was 33 and had educated myself at a private school that gave courses in the evenings. I educated myself for three years at the same time I worked as a teacher. Then I got my first job in IT through a friend right away, but unfortunately that company shut down after three and a half years. I was unemployed for a while and had to study four more years at college to be an computer engineer. After another half year of unemployment and having applied for 150 jobs and done 15 interviews I finally got two jobs the same week. I choose the one I wanted the most and have had that job now for 11 years. I was then 45. It is not easy to get another job when you get near the fifty even worse when you passed the fifty and getting close to sixty

/Tom

Over a decade ago I tried to move to central WI. It didn't work out. My experience then was that there was very little paying work to go around even less good paying work. I didn't stick around long so that observation might be from the outside looking in.

With that said, the best way to meet people is to take lessons with them. That's the reality of the pecking order in music. If your resume is a little heavier maybe duets and a hang would be in order. When in doubt, always offer to take a lesson; it's good to respect people's time. Chances are that if you're asking this question, you might need to increase your skill and experience level in the first place. Of course in the orchestra world winning auditions is the best way to get steady work in the long-term and lessons can help with that too.

In my experience with subs, the regular member's comfort level is the most important aspect in terms of getting called back. I've been on both ends of the substitute player's conundrum, and it's a puzzle. Having a bit of say in a couple sub lists now, it's comforting to know that sometimes there's little rhyme or reason behind why people get called aand moved up and down the list. Don't let anyone ever tell you that nepotism isn't a reason why people get moved up and down the sub list--it oftentimes is.

I just try to enjoy myself when I get to play with a really good orchestra and not be overly-worried about pleasing those around me, but I also happily accommodate people if they ask for things to be played differently too. A little bit of feedback is typically a good sign. For some groups, that laid-back attitude works really well. In my experience sometimes the members of the orchestra will want you to be super-concerned about pleasing them. My strategy in those situations is not to worry about it too--that's not a group and section I would like to play a bunch with anyway. I oftentimes wind up getting called back in those situations too--much to my discontentment.

So I guess my bottom line advice is focus on what you can control (your playing, networking, physical and mental health, and attitude on the gig), be sincere, and don't fret about the rest.

Where are you in Central WI? I'm @ 40 mins North of Milwaukee, do some sub work with Milwaukee Symph, but most of my playing is regional/local orchestras which even if you're in "all" of them, it isn't anywhere near enough to live on. However, a couple that I am a "regular member" of, are quite artistically rewarding, which makes the whole deal more enjoyable.

Be prepared to drive!! One of my gigs is an hour 20 drive to get there! (It pays $50 for the service, no mileage) There are others that are further away that I have been offered, but declined. There are a few guys around who regularly drive 2 or more hours to a gig.

Honestly, depending in where you are, Don't expect to make a huge amount of money playing. The work just isn't there. Sure there are "Community" groups around, of varying degrees of quality, but many of those are "Pay to Play"

Good luck for the future!

Find, join, and play for free with at least 2 community bands or orchestras in the area. Take any single part they hand you. Stay for a year, get to know the people around you and the director, and SHOW THOSE PEOPLE you can play at a high level. The calls will start to come in after that. You’ve got to pay your dues to the folks who make things happen, and in my experience, lots of those people play in community bands on the side. Their day jobs are as teachers, contractors, and promoters.

Supply and demand is a b@5@$. In the area where I live, there are so few paying gigs and so many players that the local symphony can pay $79 a service for principal pay and have people lined up to take it. Our local theater group pays $60 a service (which is usually between 3 and 4 hours) and people (myself included) are glad to get it. Even the largest orchestra in the area is a per service orchestra where someone that plays ever gig all year would make less than $20k.

So most of us play for fun and the occasional Easter gig check. Just think if every day were Easter, brass players could make a good liiving!

Definitely get involved in community bands or orchestras. There is precious little paying work for trombone players around here (I'm in west central WI). The only gigs in my experience that pay any appreciable amount around here is weddings and you need to get well known in the area. Even then it'll most likely just be a hobby that pays for itself and not much else.

Other than community groups, if you attend a church get in touch with their music director and play for a few services. You probably won't get paid for it, but playing for a service is a great way to get your name and an example of your playing to a lot of people very quickly.